Flotilla's "weapon" photos were not taken in 2010 - Polidicks

What does this prove? That they never set the date or that they faked this? Either way, noone here can answer this question.

[QUOTE=sami-pso;22346384]What does this prove? That they never set the date or that they faked this? Either way, noone here can answer this question.[/QUOTE] That they are incompetent either way.

Not really, the original point of the thread sort of dissolved on page one and it just turned into another argument thread. Not that there's anything wrong with that I guess

[QUOTE=Glorbo;22345930]Enter Karine A- [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karine_A_Affair[/url] Israel became suspicious when hey refused to be examined. They boarded the ship. May be illegal, but they feel like they have no option.[/QUOTE] I have no problems with Israel intercepting ships from Iran, as those obviously are incredibly suspicious and are pretty much a threat to security. But an international aid ship carrying passengers from around the world could have been handled better.

[QUOTE=Sporkfire;22346478]I have no problems with Israel intercepting ships from Iran, as those obviously are incredibly suspicious and are pretty much a threat to security. But an international aid ship carrying passengers from around the world could have been handled better.[/QUOTE] The funny thing is that some of the ships had been searched in Turkey before departure, so Israel claiming that they found weapons on board would be the same as accusing Turkey of Arms-dealing. But I guess the dangerous kitchen knives from turkey are widely known as WMDs.

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22346519]The funny thing is that some of the ships had been searched in Turkey before departure, so Israel claiming that they found weapons on board would be the same as accusing Turkey of Arms-dealing. But I guess the dangerous kitchen knives from turkey are widely known as WMDs.[/QUOTE] Gotta be careful round them knives, I hear they can split a man from his nave to his chops.

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22346519]The funny thing is that some of the ships had been searched in Turkey before departure, so Israel claiming that they found weapons on board would be the same as accusing Turkey of Arms-dealing. But I guess the dangerous kitchen knives from turkey are widely known as WMDs.[/QUOTE] You do know that the weapons they claim to have found are the improvised weapons used against the commandos? I know that you know this, I expected more from you than just saying stuff you know aren't true.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22346624]You do know that the weapons they claim to have found are the improvised weapons used against the commandos? I know that you know this, I expected more from you than just saying stuff you know aren't true.[/QUOTE] Notice that I said "Would be". The end result is that either Israel has to admit that this was just a bunch of Civilians that were defending themselves with what was lying around, or that Turkey equipped a ship with weapons to use against the Israelis, an accusation that is going to be taken very seriously. No matter which way you look at it, Israel is going to lose. Oh who am I kidding, they're going to be investigating this themselves because of the US.

How would Israel lose if no actual weapons are found?

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22346373]Yeah, I mean, it's not like an independent nation has committed an act of piracy which left 9+ humanitarian workers dead? But seriously, I think a lot of the rage is coming because Israel is going to get away from this scot-free because of America VETO-ing anything bad that might be happening to them. Let me ask a question to any American citizen, [B]1.[/B] do you think this will boost your relationship with the arab nations, or Europe for that sake? [B]2. [/B]Do you think the choice to cover for Israel yet again was in the American citizens best interests? [B]3.[/B] These kind of decisions is one of the reasons for why America is viewed as it is abroad, you should really think about that.[/QUOTE] 1. No 2. Yes 3. Ok

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22346742]How would Israel lose if no actual weapons are found?[/QUOTE] They would have to admit that they were completely and utterly in the wrong to board this ship on any account. [editline]06:02PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Canuhearme?;22346751]1. No 2. Yes 3. Ok[/QUOTE] Could you explain your second choice for me, because I'd say this will make life harder for any American citizen abroad.

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22346755]They would have to admit that they were completely and utterly in the wrong to board this ship on any account.[/QUOTE] Admitting they were wrong doesn't so too bad to me.

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22346755] Could you explain your second choice for me, because I'd say this will make life harder for any American citizen abroad.[/QUOTE] Any answer I give will be inadequate for the response you are looking for.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22346812]Admitting they were wrong doesn't so too bad to me.[/QUOTE] Would you mind if the Israeli government could be held responsible for this? Because of the US involvement this isn't going to happen. Just look at what your president is saying about the incident at the moment. Israel is currently above the international law, and this is what is infuriating for so many people. [editline]06:07PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Canuhearme?;22346843]Any answer I give will be inadequate for the response you are looking for.[/QUOTE] Any response will be good enough.

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22346845] Any response will be good enough.[/QUOTE] I'd imagine the reason we are still supporting Israel is the old idea of "an enemy of my enemy is my friend." Since Israel is more or less friendly to the United States (and is a modern, industrialized nation) we find it advantageous to keep them around. Or it's because we don't want them to actually use the Samson Doctrine, which they probably will if they're caught in a losing war (which would irradiate large swathes of the Middle East.) I don't remember people on Facepunch making such a large fuss when Russia [I]invaded[/I] Georgia.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;22346902]I'd imagine the reason we are still supporting Israel is the old idea of "an enemy of my enemy is my friend." Since Israel is more or less friendly to the United States (and is a modern, industrialized nation) we find it advantageous to keep them around. Or it's because we don't want them to actually use the Samson Doctrine, which they probably will if they're caught in a losing war (which would irradiate large swathes of the Middle East.) I don't remember people on Facepunch making such a large fuss when Russia [I]invaded[/I] Georgia.[/QUOTE] And Turkey is a NATO-member and a close ally of the US. You even have large amounts of soldiers stationed there, and it's a base of operations for Iraq and Afghanistan. This incident has hurt Turkey more than any other country, and they are almost threatening to cut any diplomatic ties with Israel. Regarding the Samson doctrine, do you honestly think that Israel would be as self-destructive as to initiate a nuclear launch and maybe hurry on the WW3 if caught on the losing side? I have a hard time imagining this, but if so, shouldn't the US be pushing for disarming them? About your last point, this is a strawman, and I wasn't around Facepunch at that time, but I can assure you that there were a lot of media attention about that here in Scandinavia at least.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;22346902]I'd imagine the reason we are still supporting Israel is the old idea of "an enemy of my enemy is my friend." Since Israel is more or less friendly to the United States (and is a modern, industrialized nation) we find it advantageous to keep them around. Or it's because we don't want them to actually use the Samson Doctrine, which they probably will if they're caught in a losing war (which would irradiate large swathes of the Middle East.) I don't remember people on Facepunch making such a large fuss when Russia [I]invaded[/I] Georgia.[/QUOTE] Its not the enemy of my enemy is my friend idea. In fact, the Middle East became enemies to the U.S after its blind support for Israel. And [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupation_Government"]ZOG[/URL] pretty much.

Every time I take the batteries out of my camera the date resets. The Majority of my pictures were taken on January 1, 2004-2006 because of it. I'm just to lazy to set the time right.

[QUOTE=OvB;22347285]Every time I take the batteries out of my camera the date resets. The Majority of my pictures were taken on January 1, 2004-2006 because of it. I'm just to lazy to set the time right.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's fortunate for you that you are not a criminal investigator or a military photographer. I'd imagine that this should be rather important for people who are taking pictures of evidence.

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22346996]And Turkey is a NATO-member and a close ally of the US. You even have large amounts of soldiers stationed there, and it's a base of operations for Iraq and Afghanistan. This incident has hurt Turkey more than any other country, and they are almost threatening to cut any diplomatic ties with Israel. Regarding the Samson doctrine, do you honestly think that Israel would be as self-destructive as to initiate a nuclear launch and maybe hurry on the WW3 if caught on the losing side? I have a hard time imagining this, but if so, shouldn't the US be pushing for disarming them? About your last point, this is a strawman, and I wasn't around Facepunch at that time, but I can assure you that there were a lot of media attention about that here in Scandinavia at least.[/QUOTE] *ONE* vessel was flying the Turkish flag. The rest flew other flags, including one American. And yet the United States isn't screaming bloody murder over piracy. It was a blockade that civilians willingly attempted to break. The ship that had the problems, Mavi Mamara, was flying a flag of convenience ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_convenience[/url]) which means the vessel was not under the protection of Turkey. Effectively it isn't protected at all. The Turkish vessel carried a grand total of 18 people and they suffered no casualties or wounded.

[QUOTE=archangel125;22343678]Actually, as much as I hate to admit it, it's quite possible the camera that took the photos just had the wrong date/time. When the photograph was uploaded to a computer, and shrunk so that it would fit on most screens when uploaded, the computer, if it had an internet connection, would show the correct date. So that's why it shows 2010 for date modified.[/QUOTE] This. Camera clocks are not reliable sources of evidence. And why would they need to fake those weapons, which were clearly actually used in the videos.

[QUOTE=GunFox;22347565]*ONE* vessel was flying the Turkish flag. The rest flew other flags, including one American. And yet the United States isn't screaming bloody murder over piracy. It was a blockade that civilians willingly attempted to break. The ship that had the problems, Mavi Mamara, was flying a flag of convenience ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_convenience[/url]) which means the vessel was not under the protection of Turkey. Effectively it isn't protected at all. The Turkish vessel carried a grand total of 18 people and they suffered no casualties or wounded.[/QUOTE] Israel has reported that at least 8 of the casualties were from Turkey, so I'd say that they are the ones that has taken the hardest hit. Oh, and the blockade is still Illegal by UN standards, so even if they were within the borders of Gaza territorial waters, the IDF would still be in the wrong. However, they were in international waters, so Israel has absolutely no legal footing anyway. Also, would you mind taking a a minute to answer the questions I asked at the top of the page?

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22347636]Israel has reported that at least 8 of the casualties were from Turkey, so I'd say that they are the ones that has taken the hardest hit.[/QUOTE] Yeah but they were aboard a foreign flagged vessel under their own will. It is the jurisdiction of Comoros, not Turkey.

[QUOTE=GunFox;22347663]Yeah but they were aboard a foreign flagged vessel under their own will. It is the jurisdiction of Comoros, not Turkey.[/QUOTE] They were still Turkish citizens/born in Turkey. [editline]06:01PM[/editline] [QUOTE=GunFox;22347565]*ONE* vessel was flying the Turkish flag. The rest flew other flags, including one American. And yet the United States isn't screaming bloody murder over piracy. It was a blockade that civilians willingly attempted to break. [/QUOTE] An [B]illegal [/B]blockade. And do you honestly expect the U.S to scream piracy to Israel? lol. They wouldn't even condemn Israel if even if they attacked directly into U.S soil. The harshest thing the U.S said to Israel was when Jim Baker, secretary of state for George H.W Bush, publicly challenged the Israelis, reciting the White House switchboard number and demanding: "When you're serious about peace, call us."

I'd like to post this for anyone who has not yet seen it. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident[/url] Take it however way you want, but know that one of the survivors of this incident was on this flotilla. This means he has not only survived one Israeli attack on the vessel he was on, but two.

[QUOTE=starpluck;22347697] An [B]illegal [/B]blockade. And do you honestly expect the U.S to scream piracy to Israel? lol. They wouldn't even condemn Israel if even if they attacked directly into U.S soil. The harshest thing the U.S said to Israel was when Jim Baker, secretary of state for George H.W Bush, publicly challenged the Israelis, reciting the White House switchboard number and demanding: "When you're serious about peace, call us."[/QUOTE] Oh okay, Israel will declare war on Gaza now so that they can blockade them legally. The point of the blockade is to AVOID a war. It isn't like Israel is actually threatened by the strip from a military standpoint. It could be turned, in its entirety, into a smoking crater withing hours. They take these steps in order to prevent that from occurring.

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22347839]I'd like to post this for anyone who has not yet seen it. [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident[/URL] Take it however way you want, but know that one of the survivors of this incident was on this flotilla. This means he has not only survived one Israeli attack on the vessel he was on, but two.[/QUOTE] Fun fact, a National Security Agency (NSA) investigation revealed that the Israeli pilots were talking about 'bombing the US flagged ship'.

[QUOTE=GunFox;22347857]Oh okay, Israel will declare war on Gaza now so that they can blockade them legally. The point of the blockade is to AVOID a war. It isn't like Israel is actually threatened by the strip from a military standpoint. It could be turned, in its entirety, into a smoking crater withing hours. They take these steps in order to prevent that from occurring.[/QUOTE] So you are trying to say that the Israelis are being morally correct disallowing humanitarian aid and demolishing homes in Gaza because they [b]could[/b] just annihilate the whole area?

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22347907]So you are trying to say that the Israelis are being morally correct disallowing humanitarian aid and demolishing homes in Gaza because they [b]could[/b] just annihilate the whole area?[/QUOTE] They offered to distribute the supplies under the direct observation of the flotilla crew. And yes. They are attempting to prevent the influx of equipment which could be used to wage war against Israel. Their list about what is restricted is pretty ridiculous in a lot of places, and that should be fixed, but the blockade against arms is largely in the best interest of both countries.

[QUOTE=GunFox;22347857]Oh okay, Israel will declare war on Gaza now so that they can blockade them legally. The point of the blockade is to AVOID a war. It isn't like Israel is actually threatened by the strip from a military standpoint. It could be turned, in its entirety, into a smoking crater withing hours. They take these steps in order to prevent that from occurring.[/QUOTE] The blockade amounts to collective punishment, making it illegal regardless The [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions"]1977 amendment to the Geneva Conventions protocols[/URL] prohibits the use of collective measures that do not distinguish between civilians and military, the blockade doesn't. [IMG]http://media.economist.com/images/na/2010w23/201023NAC266B.jpg[/IMG] Or for the full list: [URL]http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf[/URL] [B]Prohibited Items[/B] sage flour cardamom sugar cumin sweetener coriander rice ginger salt jam cooking oil halva semolina vinegar yeast nutmeg pasta chocolate chickpeas fruit preserves beans seeds and nuts kidney beans biscuits and sweets lentils potato chips peas gas for soft drinks Burgul wheat dried fruit corn fresh meat lupini beans plaster powdered milk tar dairy products wood for construction margarine cement hummus paste iron frozen meat, fish, and vegetables glucose vitamins and oil for animal feed industrial salt empty bags for flour plastic/glass/metal containers medicine and medical equipment industrial margarine diapers tarpaulin sheets for huts feminine hygiene products fabric (for clothing) toilet paper flavor and smell enhancers baby wipes fishing rods shampoo & conditioner various fishing nets soap & liquid soap buoys toothpaste ropes for fishing laundry detergent nylon nets for greenhouses fabric softener hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries dish soap spare parts for tractors glass cleaner dairies for cowsheds floor cleaning fluid irrigation pipe systems cleaning liquid for bathroom use ropes to tie greenhouses chlorine planters for saplings insecticide for household use heaters for chicken farms coffee musical instruments tea size A4 paper salami meat writing implements canned meat notebooks canned fish newspapers sponges for cleaning dishes toys sponges for washing razors mopping rags sewing machines and spare parts cleaning rags heaters all canned food except canned fruit horses za'atar spice donkeys black pepper goats sesame cattle powdered chicken stock chicks Clearly, this does not distinguish between military nor civilian, making this blockade, illegal.