World's largest Muslim group denounces Islamist extremism - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50293019]Sorry for the miscommunication, then. I thought that "religious extremists" were understood to be religious groups that use violence in pursuit of religious goals.[/QUOTE] Extreme is subjective. What you may deem 'extreme', others may not. I would personally see the assumption of obedience from a wife as an extreme value to have.

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;50292980]The original article was about generic extremism, whether violent or non violent. Thats why I used those polls. And I guess we can also agree to disagree that the numbers in the Pew polls aren't "extreme".[/QUOTE] It's not that the figures aren't "extreme," but that they are highly suspect. As Fayez posted above, there is strong evidence that the oft-cited Pew Research Polls are, frankly, bullshit. Or at least very questionable. [editline]10th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Pantz Master;50293022]Would you not consider the Westboro Baptist Church to be extremists?[/QUOTE] Yeah, fair point. No sense arguing semantics, however. We already acknowledged that this was just a miscommunication.

[QUOTE=Fayez;50292969]Pew poll is bullshit, please stop posting it.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]2% of Afghanis use internet yet over 84% of them say they use social media sites. Okay.[/QUOTE] Just saying that this argument is wrong, the question was if they have EVER used it, that could also mean in an internet cafe, with friends, etc., even once would be enough for a "yes" And if they only asked the actual internet users, those who use it often: that wouldn't help the argument either, because in poor countries usually only the wealthy and elite have access to internet, you know, the educated ones in most cases

[QUOTE=Firewarrior;50293058]Just saying that this argument is wrong, the question was if they have EVER used it, that could also mean in an internet cafe, with friends, etc., even once would be enough for a "yes" And if they only asked the actual internet users, those who use it often: that wouldn't help the argument either, because in poor countries usually only the wealthy and elite have access to internet, you know, the educated ones in most cases[/QUOTE] Fair enough, it seemed like a discrepancy so I put it on the list. Thanks for the clarification.

[QUOTE=Dr.Critic;50292882]Just waiting for the bigot brigade to march in to the thread and tell us why everyone is wrong and why ISIS militants are true muslims and the rest are just repressed casuals because they skim-read a few translated verses from the Qur'an cherrypicked by some shitty site[/QUOTE] Well they're the only ones who actually do what the book says so....

[QUOTE=Richoxen;50293648]Well they're the only ones who actually do what the book says so....[/QUOTE] Actually most extremist groups do what they damn well please and only try to justify it by [I]saying[/I] that's what the book says, even though they disregard large portions of it like everyone else. The Quran is a violent book, that's true, but you need to quit pretending that the extremists are the "true" Muslims.

A fine gesture, but one that shouldn't be necessary. Tired of the guilt-by-association complex that has infected every aspect of life that presumes approval unless blatantly, and regularly, denied.

A lot of people in this thread incorrectly linking conservative Islam with Islamism/Jihadism. Whilst the former does help feed into the ideologies of the latter, and both are a social bad, they are distinct, and if we're trying to deal with terrorism, targeting conservative Islam isn't the answer.

[QUOTE=Firewarrior;50293058]Just saying that this argument is wrong, the question was if they have EVER used it, that could also mean in an internet cafe, with friends, etc., even once would be enough for a "yes" And if they only asked the actual internet users, those who use it often: that wouldn't help the argument either, because in poor countries usually only the wealthy and elite have access to internet, you know, the educated ones in most cases[/QUOTE] That still doesn't neglect the fact that only the questions of the report that actually make sense are cherry picked since within the same survey people also gave answers that made no sense at all. And specifically for the one you are adressing that would mean that those people who only used it once or twice also use (not used!) social media sites. Okay. What's also conveniently left out in screenshots like the ones above is stuff like [quote]Conversely, in some countries where Muslims make up more than 90% of the population, relatively few want their government to codify Islamic law; this is the case in Tajikistan (27%), Turkey (12%) and Azerbaijan (8%).[/quote] Or [quote]At the same time, the survey finds that even in many countries where there is strong backing for sharia, most Muslims favor religious freedom for people of other faiths. In Pakistan, for example, three-quarters of Muslims say that non-Muslims are very free to practice their religion, and fully 96% of those who share this assessment say it is “a good thing.” Yet 84% of Pakistani Muslims favor enshrining sharia as official law. These seemingly divergent views are possible partly because most supporters of sharia in Pakistan – as in many other countries – think Islamic law should apply only to Muslims. Moreover, [B]Muslims around the globe have differing understandings of what sharia means in practice.[/B][/quote] And if you ask me the very fact that they use the word "Islamic" instead of "Muslim" in many many occasions throughout the study is pretty suspicious. At the same time the question if people are worried about religious extremism hasn't been asked in countries where it would be very interesting to know. Same for "is suicide bombing justified". Not asked in Afghanistan where most people say that suicide is amoral.

[QUOTE=Kentz;50292828]condeming violent extremism doesnt mean shit when you still believe stoning for adultery is okay [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight][/QUOTE] I highly doubt a regular western christian guy thinks killing lgbt people like it says in the old testement is ok, just like a regular muslim that doesnt adhere to the ridiculous parts of the quran.

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;50292857]Are we supposed to congratulate them on this? Is the bar really that low? I guess our expectations really are that low for Muslims. Why should we hold them to the same standards as westerners? This is the soft bigotry of low expectations. Paternalism at its best.[/QUOTE] maybe the bar is so low because people like you keep trying to paint them as an army of savages

[QUOTE=BelatedGamer;50293762]Actually most extremist groups do what they damn well please and only try to justify it by [I]saying[/I] that's what the book says, even though they disregard large portions of it like everyone else. The Quran is a violent book, that's true, but you need to quit pretending that the extremists are the "true" Muslims.[/QUOTE] You should buy a copy and actually read it if thats what you think. Headsup : its really boring

[QUOTE=Richoxen;50300345]You should buy a copy and actually read it if thats what you think. Headsup : its really boring[/QUOTE] I have. No one follows it to the letter, not even extremists, so saying they're the "true Muslims" is more than a little ignorant.

[QUOTE=BelatedGamer;50300359]I have. No one follows it to the letter, not even extremists, so saying they're the "true Muslims" is more than a little ignorant.[/QUOTE] Fair, but to say they follow LESS than the average muslim would also be wrong i think. They're closer to being "true"... If thats what we want to call it.

[QUOTE=Richoxen;50300382]Fair, but to say they follow LESS than the average muslim would also be wrong i think. They're closer to being "true"... If thats what we want to call it.[/QUOTE] I guess I can't disagree with that. But I do think that it's irrelevant, which is to say; no one actually follows the Quran completely, so saying that group A is closer than group B doesn't really get us anywhere.

[QUOTE=BelatedGamer;50300470]I guess I can't disagree with that. But I do think that it's irrelevant, which is to say; no one actually follows the Quran completely, so saying that group A is closer than group B doesn't really get us anywhere.[/QUOTE] Yeah idk i used to think it was purely a socioeconomic problem, but from the Muslims i've talked to they all seem to think its a cultural problem, if thats the case than maybe the religion is partly to blame as it's more susceptable to extremism just due to the fact that muhammad himself was a warlord so the book is written from that perspective. If thats the case then it might be relevant to discuss. But like I said, I used to think it was socioeconomic.

I think it's more to the fact that the cold war used the Muslim areas that have been pretty damn progressive for their time to fight its conflicts. Examples? Afghanistan and Iran, the most "extremist" regions nowadays. Then there is Saudi Arabia using extremist practices to keep their money elite in power as the center of the religion is in their possession.