Norway introduces compulsory military service for women, bunking them in mixed dorms with men - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Swebonny;50951307]Yeah it's a bit weird. The first thing I think of is the lowered requirements for women to be drafted and if they may become a liability. My friend told stories about how their group had to take turns carrying the equipment for a female member that simply was to weak to finish their hike or whatever. Talk about being a burden.[/QUOTE] IMO the standards should be optimized for combat effectiveness and anyone who can meet them gets to play in the sandbox. No exceptions for political correctness reasons. I guess conscripts in the Norwegian military aren't likely to see combat but still.

[QUOTE=Swebonny;50951307]Yeah it's a bit weird. The first thing I think of is the lowered requirements for women to be drafted and if they may become a liability. My friend told stories about how their group had to take turns carrying the equipment for a female member that simply was to weak to finish their hike or whatever. Talk about being a burden.[/QUOTE] The last part happened more than few times during my time in conscription for men too and even more than women naturally because there was just few of them compared to men.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50951313]IMO the standards should be optimized for combat effectiveness and anyone who can meet them gets to play in the sandbox. No exceptions for political correctness reasons. I guess conscripts in the Norwegian military aren't likely to see combat but still.[/QUOTE] Its less about political correctness and more about manpower. Having someone posted on a wall that can't do 49 pushups isn't optimal but it's better than not having anyone at all. Doubly true in countries that rely on volunteer service.

What do you do if you're in the military in Norway? Run drills all day? Does is double as a public service corps in case of natural disasters or cleanup kind of things? I don't know if Norway has a lot of people overseas (probably at their embassies). My brother was in the Marine Corps and served in Japan and Romania, doing a lot of construction work in both places. What does the Norwegian military do? [editline]26th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Mellowbloom;50951216]you know it makes me worry about peoples outlook on life when men and women sharing a space is enough for them to be concerned people are going to start raping eachother[/QUOTE] Our military recruits the lowest common denominator. We've got a problem with rape in the military partly because of the culture of the military and the military not taking it seriously, as well as a lack of civilian oversight into sexual assault cases in the military. The military has an incentive not to prosecute sexual assault cases or to push the issue higher up in the chain of command while civilian prosecutors have an interest in seeing convictions

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50951270]I think the weirder part is why does Norway even have compulsory service at all. I understand it for countries that are on a border with immediate enemies but what the hell is Norway's excuse.[/QUOTE] norway's not really compulsory finland is where the real problem lies

[QUOTE=Swebonny;50951307]Yeah it's a bit weird. The first thing I think of is the lowered requirements for women to be drafted and if they may become a liability. My friend told stories about how their group had to take turns carrying the equipment for a female member that simply was to weak to finish their hike or whatever. Talk about being a burden.[/QUOTE] I've met my fair share of women who are really strong, mostly because there's a community of people who travel to the north pole and such here. Female arctic expedition leaders are quite capable. That said, drawing random women into the military probably won't give the same results.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50951270]I think the weirder part is why does Norway even have compulsory service at all. I understand it for countries that are on a border with immediate enemies but what the hell is Norway's excuse.[/QUOTE] It's easy to get out of, if you're going to study they don't call you for it as far as I know.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50951344]What do you do if you're in the military in Norway? Run drills all day? Does is double as a public service corps in case of natural disasters or cleanup kind of things? I don't know if Norway has a lot of people overseas (probably at their embassies). My brother was in the Marine Corps and served in Japan and Romania, doing a lot of construction work in both places. What does the Norwegian military do? [editline]26th August 2016[/editline] [b]Our military recruits the lowest common denominator. We've got a problem with rape in the military partly because of the culture of the military and the military not taking it seriously, as well as a lack of civilian oversight into sexual assault cases in the military. The military has an incentive not to prosecute sexual assault cases or to push the issue higher up in the chain of command while civilian prosecutors have an interest in seeing convictions[/b][/QUOTE] When did you serve? It sure seems like you know something I don't.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50951270]I think the weirder part is why does Norway even have compulsory service at all. I understand it for countries that are on a border with immediate enemies but what the hell is Norway's excuse.[/QUOTE] Border with russia isnt enough a reason?

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50951270]I think the weirder part is why does Norway even have compulsory service at all. I understand it for countries that are on a border with immediate enemies but what the hell is Norway's excuse.[/QUOTE] I have yet to meet a Norwegian who didn't enjoy their time in the military, supposedly it's really easy to opt out if you have no interest.

[QUOTE=meek;50951590]I have yet to meet a Norwegian who didn't enjoy their time in the military, supposedly it's really easy to opt out if you have no interest.[/QUOTE] One of the questions you get is whether you actually [I]want[/I] to take part, and they heavily prioritize those who do.

Man there is going to be so much banging in those barracks. [QUOTE=proboardslol;50951344]Our military recruits the lowest common denominator. We've got a problem with rape in the military partly because of the culture of the military and the military not taking it seriously, as well as a lack of civilian oversight into sexual assault cases in the military. The military has an incentive not to prosecute sexual assault cases or to push the issue higher up in the chain of command while civilian prosecutors have an interest in seeing convictions[/QUOTE] Holy shit what.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50951344]Our military recruits the lowest common denominator. We've got a problem with rape in the military partly because of the culture of the military and the military not taking it seriously, as well as a lack of civilian oversight into sexual assault cases in the military. The military has an incentive not to prosecute sexual assault cases or to push the issue higher up in the chain of command while civilian prosecutors have an interest in seeing convictions[/QUOTE]i believe middle class and above are overrepresented in the military, there's a huge amount of poor people when the draft is implemented (with the more elite being able to draft dodge) but modern day the higher class you are the more likely a member of your family is in the military interestingly enough

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50951344]What do you do if you're in the military in Norway? Run drills all day? Does is double as a public service corps in case of natural disasters or cleanup kind of things? I don't know if Norway has a lot of people overseas (probably at their embassies). My brother was in the Marine Corps and served in Japan and Romania, doing a lot of construction work in both places. What does the Norwegian military do? [editline]26th August 2016[/editline] Our military recruits the lowest common denominator. We've got a problem with rape in the military partly because of the culture of the military and the military not taking it seriously, as well as a lack of civilian oversight into sexual assault cases in the military. The military has an incentive not to prosecute sexual assault cases or to push the issue higher up in the chain of command while civilian prosecutors have an interest in seeing convictions[/QUOTE] Are you actually making things up as you go along? Ask anyone in service right now about the bombardment of sexual assault briefings they're forced to go through. It's not some glossed over problem. It's also fairly hard to get into the military right now, for good MOSs.

[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;50950131]Mixed genders in the service is great. It turns aircraft carriers into floating high schools.[/QUOTE] is this an anime that isn't tank based

[QUOTE=Combine 177;50950977]I find it always so weird how if there is anything like this is in the news mostly people from USA come around talking about rape as first thing.[/QUOTE] My guess is either it's because the US hasn't had the best track record concerning sexual assault in the military, or because we're cynical due to the amount of problems the US has with no solutions in sight since those in politics don't give a shit about those problems.

I wouldn't be surprised if this just ends up like Israel where the overwhelming majority of female conscripts end up in non-combat roles

Nothing new.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50952264]Are you actually making things up as you go along? Ask anyone in service right now about the bombardment of sexual assault briefings they're forced to go through. It's not some glossed over problem. It's also fairly hard to get into the military right now, for good MOSs.[/QUOTE] Fucking right, man. I don't think the Army has a single installation that isn't plastered with SHARP posters. Also, lowest common denominator? Really? I've met some very intelligent, upstanding people during my time in. That being said, you do bump into the occasional shady fucker. They're far from the majority though.

[QUOTE=coyote93;50950687]What's with so many people's first thoughts being of rape? In the Norwegian compulsory military service, you have to go trough a background check, a psychological test, a physical test, and a form for intelligence test, just to enter service, and if you fail to meet the standard on one or more of the tests, your out. So, no matter what you might think, they actually don't let any idiot join the army. And yeah, sure, I know being an idiot is not a requirement for a rapist, but some of you people make it sound like the army just scrape together a bunch of turds and slam them into a camp with no rules or consequences.[/QUOTE] it would be great if we had that in america. so many people in the service that don't belong.

[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;50950131]Mixed genders in the service is great. It turns aircraft carriers into floating high schools.[/QUOTE] I want a scrubs esque show about this.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50951344] Our military recruits the lowest common denominator. We've got a problem with rape in the military partly because of the culture of the military and the military not taking it seriously, as well as a lack of civilian oversight into sexual assault cases in the military. The military has an incentive not to prosecute sexual assault cases or to push the issue higher up in the chain of command while civilian prosecutors have an interest in seeing convictions[/QUOTE] Its a funny feeling when you've seen military advisors, generals and other leadership actually saying the exact opposite and being worried about creating military dynasties.

[QUOTE=Pops;50954363]it would be great if we had that in america. so many people in the service that don't belong.[/QUOTE] We have all of those except a psychological test, but you have to tell your recruiter of the MEPS folks what medicine you are on or what conditions you have, with most being fails. I'd be curious how extensive the one coyote93 is referencing though, what exactly they look for.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50951344] Our military recruits the lowest common denominator. We've got a problem with rape in the military partly because of the culture of the military and the military not taking it seriously, as well as a lack of civilian oversight into sexual assault cases in the military. The military has an incentive not to prosecute sexual assault cases or to push the issue higher up in the chain of command while civilian prosecutors have an interest in seeing convictions[/QUOTE] You obviously have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Interestingly, a lot of problems with the US military recruitment is that the paperwork and requirements are so strict that it has become accepted to lie your way into the service. I always say that if the Marine Corps actually kicked out all the people who shouldn't have been able to join, nobody would be in the Marine Corps. There is so much paperwork they make you do on everything. Ever even touched an inhaler? Disqualified. Ever broke a bone? Possibly disqualified, get six forms signed on it. Don't have perfect vision? Get ten forms signed on it. It's not correctable with glasses but you can still see almost fine? Disqualified. Any history of any sort of depression, anxiety, or anything of the sort? Disqualified. Ever smoked weed or any sort of drug or been prescribed most over the counter drugs? Disqualified. Drank under 21? Disqualified. Any misdemeanors? Possibly disqualified, get thirty sheets of paperwork to cover it all and see. It's to the point most recruiters have the kids joining lie on all of their paperwork and claim some outrageous shit like "I've never seen a doctor in my life but I somehow have all my vaccinations" because if they say anything else then they need to get a stack of papers all signed, noted, dated and if a single thing is wrong then those weeks of getting ready were for nothing and now you'll never get in since it's all on record. When you go to the processing station with your paperwork, they say things like, "We know your recruiter just told you to lie about anything, but tell us, we need to know," But that's just a test to make sure you're not so retarded that you can't keep your mouth shut for an hour. Honestly, we might be able to weed more people out if we lessened some of the paperwork and the pain of signing up in order to encourage actually doing the paperwork.

I think mandatory military service of at least a year is a great way to teach people values and standards IMO.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50951270]I think the weirder part is why does Norway even have compulsory service at all. I understand it for countries that are on a border with immediate enemies but what the hell is Norway's excuse.[/QUOTE] Honestly, compulsory service is a great thing. Teach basic survival and tactical know-how from the simple individual soldier to witnessing the effective wielding of an entire battalions or divisions worth of firepower and logistics in military exercises is a pretty damn useful insight to glean, I'd say. Not to mention the beautiful, star-lit nights spent in dead-silent forests, with only the occasional crack of a twig to alert you of a passing patrol (or opfor recon, if your sentries are that shit). I love the fact that the military firmly grasps and yanks young people firmly out of their comfort zones, forces them to adapt to a wholly new environment and plants in them the seeds of self-discipline and effective objective-oriented planning in order to overcome new challenges. It prepares the young generations for a fair amount of potential crisis situations, be they social or martial in nature, from diffusing tensions in a group of people you must work with to achieve a goal to being able to take care of yourself with limited resources in a natural environment. Every man and woman would only benefit from having even basic insight into such things. Skills learned in the military more often than not translate relatively well into civilian life. For example, I was the Company Medical Sergeant of my jaeger company, and smite me now if getting advanced medical training wasn't one of the best skills to obtain in that whole mess. The only exception would likely be firearms handling, but this does not mean it is not necessary. With the prevalence of firearms in modern society, it would only benefit you to have an understanding and enough technical know-how to safely operate and maintain them should such a situation arise that you find yourself holding one with intent to protect yourself or loved ones. I have met very few people in Estonia for whom our compulsory service was distinctly a negative experience. Most everyone will harbor contempt for the "new order" it imposes on them at first, but A VAST MAJORITY will adopt it and come to find camaraderie in it, surrounded by brothers in arms, crawling up to your nose in ice-cold running waters to avoid aerial recon, hiding in mud creeks from enemy mortars, getting ambushed because your platoon lead decided to risk crossing over a fucking plain field, marching through those forests and fields, may it rain water or artillery. The year I spent in my jaeger infantry battalion was without doubt one of the highlights of my life so far. It kind of jolted my brain, forced me to think and act in unison in order to achieve something, not to mention the specialty training every soldier receives. [QUOTE]I have better things to do with my life[/QUOTE] Fair point, but life never asks you what you want - it just kind of happens. I find it a constructive way to prepare young people for this risk (more likely an eventuality) further down the line. Treat it as an important lesson rather than a nuisance, and you're golden. Besides, judging by the peoples' facebooks who dodged draft, drinking and partying doesn't really constitute "better things". My only gripe was with the screening processes for recruitment. I'm fairly disappointed with how many "cripples" are drafted, who most certainly should not be there. People with flat feet, bad knees or backs and such. They should be able to be sieved out of the draftees fairly easily, but I don't know why they still bunch them in among us, which sucks. Lads who are basically bedridden from the first week or month should not have been let through the system, yet they trickle in. Unless it's a sneaky method of simulating operational losses among the roster in a theater of war, in which case one could argue the genius of it (squad make-up and loadouts need to be adjusted often, demanding the draftee NCOs convene with their men and actually plan in advance for tactical flexibility).

[QUOTE=Map in a box;50956093]I think mandatory military service of at least a year is a great way to teach people values and standards IMO.[/QUOTE] easy for you to fucking say

[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;50955794]Interestingly, a lot of problems with the US military recruitment is that the paperwork and requirements are so strict that it has become accepted to lie your way into the service. I always say that if the Marine Corps actually kicked out all the people who shouldn't have been able to join, nobody would be in the Marine Corps. There is so much paperwork they make you do on everything. Ever even touched an inhaler? Disqualified. Ever broke a bone? Possibly disqualified, get six forms signed on it. Don't have perfect vision? Get ten forms signed on it. It's not correctable with glasses but you can still see almost fine? Disqualified. Any history of any sort of depression, anxiety, or anything of the sort? Disqualified. Ever smoked weed or any sort of drug or been prescribed most over the counter drugs? Disqualified. Drank under 21? Disqualified. Any misdemeanors? Possibly disqualified, get thirty sheets of paperwork to cover it all and see. It's to the point most recruiters have the kids joining lie on all of their paperwork and claim some outrageous shit like "I've never seen a doctor in my life but I somehow have all my vaccinations" because if they say anything else then they need to get a stack of papers all signed, noted, dated and if a single thing is wrong then those weeks of getting ready were for nothing and now you'll never get in since it's all on record. When you go to the processing station with your paperwork, they say things like, "We know your recruiter just told you to lie about anything, but tell us, we need to know," But that's just a test to make sure you're not so retarded that you can't keep your mouth shut for an hour. Honestly, we might be able to weed more people out if we lessened some of the paperwork and the pain of signing up in order to encourage actually doing the paperwork.[/QUOTE] I can't stress enough how accurate this is. I still can't believe how much red tape was involved with my USMC enlistment process. This girl who was biting her fingernails got disqualified under mental issues. Anyone with glasses got disqualified and had to see a specialist, just to find out that the doctors who dq'd you we're wrong. There's sort of a read between the lines mentality of when it comes to medical history, "don't motherfucking ask, don't motherfucking tell".

[QUOTE=Map in a box;50956093]I think mandatory military service of at least a year is a great way to teach people values and standards IMO.[/QUOTE] No. Forcing people to do things should be kept to a minimum.