Norway introduces compulsory military service for women, bunking them in mixed dorms with men - Polidicks

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50960925]I like to think I know a thing or two about nutting up and serving.[/QUOTE] I want to hear, in your own words, why conscription should be a thing.

Well if there's conscription I think it should be equal among the sexes, anything else isn't fair and the issue of conscription itself aside I think this is a good thing. [QUOTE=Psychokitten;50954208]Fucking right, man. I don't think the Army has a single installation that isn't plastered with SHARP posters. Also, lowest common denominator? Really? I've met some very intelligent, upstanding people during my time in. That being said, you do bump into the occasional shady fucker. They're far from the majority though.[/QUOTE]I can think of five off-hand from my hometown that are poster children for gun control, and somehow through the magic of the Bush administration they were waved on through. One got a BCD, another a DD, and the others (I'm up to seven in my head since writing this) are out and shitting up everything. I'm not saying this is the case now but proboardslol might be stuck in the pre-2007 mentality where bodies were more important than quality. [QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;50955794]Honestly, we might be able to weed more people out if we lessened some of the paperwork and the pain of signing up in order to encourage actually doing the paperwork.[/QUOTE]I think consistency is a problem in the military that needs to be addressed, after initial training the qualifications for some people are so hilariously low I can meet them as a civilian with my bad heart/lungs and fucked up feet. I can't say it happens for sure but I think some people get passed along because there's that culture of acceptable lies to deal with an absolutely ridiculous bureaucracy. Our military isn't the only one to experience this, pretty much the 80's-era Soviet military was full of corruption because the rules were increasingly regarded with contempt. I don't think this will happen with our military but when telling lies is an informally acceptable response it's an alarming problem, I don't think the defense department is taking it seriously. Sexual assault and rape I think they are taking [I]very[/I] seriously (in contrast to what proboardslol said) but I do think they're fighting an uphill battle of bad cultural elements, political correctness gone [I]insane,[/I] and of course the issue of letting bad people slip by because telling lies is unofficially what you do these days. I also think they're going about it in a dumb way, but I don't have any better solutions than presentations before liberty and posters. Really it's a complicated and tough issue.

[QUOTE=gtanoofa;50961365]So you're going to ignore my points which are pointed out from my own experience because i was the one who didn't have a choice while you live in a country with no coscription and a completely different system, only to criticize my statement on how you're ignorant about conscription. Got it.[/QUOTE] My point was with the knowledge of the military I know, read: US military. Not anything else.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;50960558]Conscription is a shitty policy that detracts from individual freedom of choice. But if you have it, there's zero reason to not make it gender-equal. But ideally you don't have conscription at all. Make it a viable career choice and give people good benefits for joining the military and sticking with it. The US does this, and the military competes on the job market with literally any other job. But they offer competitive benefits for low-skill work - the GI bill and the VA used to be huge incentives. Less so now, but still - a voluntary military is far better than a conscripted one, because you don't have to waste time and money dealing with people uncommitted to serving and you don't interrupt anyone's personal life choices.[/QUOTE] that's nice if you have the economy and population to support it. many places don't, and relying only on professional forces (jesus christ look at Sweden) will mean an exceedingly small force defending a fairly large country. [QUOTE=gtanoofa;50960977]Conscripts are mainly people who would never think about enlisting with a very small minority who likes being in the military.[/QUOTE] I don't know about other countries, but here after 80% of men have gone through military training support for it remains high

[QUOTE=Zezibesh;50961398]I don't know about other countries, but here after 80% of men have gone through military training support for it remains high[/QUOTE] All my friends think it's a retarded concept. Giving an anecdote since you pulled the 80% out of your ass, so neither piece of information is that informative.

[QUOTE=Rudevinny;50961916]Alternatively, if you haven't just grown out of your teenage "WARGH THE GUBMINT IS SO [I]TERRIBLE[/I] AND [I]OPPRESSIVE[/I]" phase quite yet, you can always lie about depression and be free, I suppose. Hate it or love it, but conscription is currently a necessary evil so long as Finland shares a border with the current incarnation of Russia.[/QUOTE] nice going there written like a true työukko

[QUOTE=Saturn V;50961952]nice going there written like a true työukko[/QUOTE]I'd gladly trade places with you, the Finnish army sounds like my kind of fun. I've seen your posts here and while I agree that being conscripted doesn't seem like an institution of a free state you are making a mountain out of a goddamn molehill. Several people have already told you how you could dodge service, sounds like it's supremely easy in Finland. Social ramifications are something you'll need to take on the chin, and really, if you can't handle what other people think of you then lmao that's your own problem.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50961976]I'd gladly trade places with you, the Finnish army sounds like my kind of fun. I've seen your posts here and while I agree that being conscripted doesn't seem like an institution of a free state you are making a mountain out of a goddamn molehill. Several people have already told you how you could dodge service, sounds like it's supremely easy in Finland. Social ramifications are something you'll need to take on the chin, and really, if you can't handle what other people think of you then lmao that's your own problem.[/QUOTE] yeah sure if anyone actually gives you shit for not going to some gay prolonged boy scout event they're trash, no need to associate with them. still, they exist and it's bullshit. and yeah some people feel strongly about these things but calling me an edgy teen or whatever is just gonna reinforce my opinion

[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;50949906]Is it really a good idea to bunk them together? I realize it's a big thing to be "equal" now, but isn't there a lot of instances rape in the military? Of course, Norway could be way better at this than other countries, but something is bound to happen, no more how minor.[/QUOTE] Well to be fair if everyone's bunked together instances of rape probably won't be as easily hidden on the basis of a fuckton of people having to share the same room at all times. Makes it a whole lot harder to actually force anyone to do anything unless literally everybody is in on it. [editline]28th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Saturn V;50961991]yeah sure if anyone actually gives you shit for not going to some gay prolonged boy scout event they're trash, no need to associate with them. still, they exist and it's bullshit. and yeah some people feel strongly about these things but calling me an edgy teen or whatever is just gonna reinforce my opinion[/QUOTE] Pretty sure people are calling you an edgy teen or whatever because that's pretty much exactly how you're acting. You can dislike the system and oppose it without acting like the pissy bitch you've been for the past few pages.

[QUOTE=Swebonny;50951307]Yeah it's a bit weird. The first thing I think of is the lowered requirements for women to be drafted and if they may become a liability. My friend told stories about how their group had to take turns carrying the equipment for a female member that simply was to weak to finish their hike or whatever. Talk about being a burden.[/QUOTE] There are two reasons on why countries start drafting women. One, the military is in serious need to expand its manpower pool; two, it's for political reason. I have believed this one is reason #1. Because Norway have also created the Jegertroppen - an all-female special force - to help with the cultural issue in places like Afghanistan where male troops have trouble speaking with local women. AFAIK the only compromise they made for Jegertroppen was the weight they carry, due to the female anatomy. The standard weight that commandos usual carry can damage the pelvic bone.

[QUOTE=Saturn V;50961991]yeah sure if anyone actually gives you shit for not going to some gay prolonged boy scout event they're trash, no need to associate with them. still, they exist and it's bullshit. and yeah some people feel strongly about these things but calling me an edgy teen or whatever is just gonna reinforce my opinion[/QUOTE]Fine, fair enough, but you know if literally everyone else is saying you're acting like an adult baby then digging in your heels probably isn't the best course of action here. I'm trying not to judge you but if I were Finnish and I were a decade younger I'd be eager to just dive in and get this over with. I would recognize that trying to get out of it seems like way, way more trouble than it's worth and any time I wanted criticize it I'd be called out for never having been a conscript myself. We're all expected a bare minimum of participation from society in [I]some[/I] way, you can say it isn't fair but that is the way things work and the way they [I]should[/I] work. Your expectation is conscription, be thankful you live in a country where you can skate out of that.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50962050]Fine, fair enough, but you know if literally everyone else is saying you're acting like an adult baby then digging in your heels probably isn't the best course of action here. I'm trying not to judge you but if I were Finnish and I were a decade younger I'd be eager to just dive in and get this over with. I would recognize that trying to get out of it seems like way, way more trouble than it's worth and any time I wanted criticize it I'd be called out for never having been a conscript myself. We're all expected a bare minimum of participation from society in [I]some[/I] way, you can say it isn't fair but that is the way things work and the way they [I]should[/I] work. Your expectation is conscription, be thankful you live in a country where you can skate out of that.[/QUOTE] idk what you mean its more trouble being freed from conscription but its not that hard anyway i'd rather fucking study, im finishing high school and im going for med school. so i'd much rather study for the entry exams and actually study to become something far more useful than some guy in green

[QUOTE=Saturn V;50962101]idk what you mean its more trouble being freed from conscription but its not that hard anyway i'd rather fucking study, [b]im finishing high school[/b] and im going for med school. so i'd much rather study for the entry exams and actually study to become something far more useful than some guy in green[/QUOTE] now it all makes sense. according to the posters above you can have enlistment as short as 6 months, that's barely a hiccup in your life time. You could probably be proactive and study for medical school while you're conscripted too.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50962457]now it all makes sense. according to the posters above you can have enlistment as short as 6 months, that's barely a hiccup in your life time. You could probably be proactive and study for medical school while you're conscripted too.[/QUOTE] oh my god just fucking shut the hell up about me going to the army when i have better things to do than some fucking stupid military shit [editline]28th August 2016[/editline] thanks :dogsleep: oh yeah also medical school shit entry exam next year in may and because i dont have to go the army i can just start studying right away instead of wasting time if you have such a hard on for the military why wont you just enlist yourself?

[QUOTE=Saturn V;50962467]oh my god just fucking shut the hell up about me going to the army when i have better things to do than some fucking stupid military shit [editline]28th August 2016[/editline] thanks :dogsleep: oh yeah also medical school shit entry exam next year in may and because i dont have to go the army i can just start studying right away instead of wasting time if you have such a hard on for the military why wont you just enlist yourself?[/QUOTE] Why won't you be conscripted? I've been serving on active duty for 6 years now. Also, here's a handy dandy guide for ya [url]http://puolustusvoimat.fi/documents/1948673/2258487/MAAVE_Varusmiesopas_2016_EN/[/url] go get em on Monday tiger. :sax:

[QUOTE=Saturn V;50962467]oh my god just fucking shut the hell up about me going to the army when i have better things to do than some fucking stupid military shit [editline]28th August 2016[/editline] thanks :dogsleep: oh yeah also medical school shit entry exam next year in may and because i dont have to go the army i can just start studying right away instead of wasting time if you have such a hard on for the military [B]why wont you just enlist yourself?[/B][/QUOTE] I don't think a [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1250383&highlight=InvaderNouga]Navy corpsman[/url] can enlist a second time. You keep making an ass of yourself because you can't even commit to the most basic amounts of research. Good luck going far into med school with that kind of attitude broski

[QUOTE=gtanoofa;50960261]Conscription was useless for me. Spent 14 months of my life and i didn't improve as a person.[/QUOTE] 14 months? What service were you conscripted in? [editline]28th August 2016[/editline] Interestingly enough, I have heard more positive things about conscription from older (fairly liberal) people who had to serve 1-2 years rather than younger people who had to serve for 8-9 months.

Meh, do as you like Military's not for me

Good thing C papers aren't too hard to get, that's what I did. A friend had worse luck - he injured his back during service, got exemption from carrying heavy loads, then some asshole forced him to do it anyways. Didn't do good for his back. He got out of there.

[QUOTE=geel9;50960023]What's "acting like a child"? Being rightfully upset that his government is forcing him to join the fucking military? Fuck that. That's an incredibly reasonable thing to be upset over.[/QUOTE] You can be rightfully mad about it but the way he was displaying it in the thread was done so in a childish manner, instead of just going " I don't like X I don't think people should be forced to do X "

[QUOTE=nikomo;50962924]Good thing C papers aren't too hard to get, that's what I did. A friend had worse luck - he injured his back during service, got exemption from carrying heavy loads, then some asshole forced him to do it anyways. Didn't do good for his back. He got out of there.[/QUOTE] How exactly can some schmuck force you to do something that will do severe damage to your health? Can't you just tell them to fuck off?

[QUOTE=Saturn V;50962101]idk what you mean its more trouble being freed from conscription but its not that hard[/QUOTE]Half the reason why you're crying is because of the social stigma, if you recognize that it's not hard then just don't go through with it. [QUOTE]anyway i'd rather fucking study, im finishing high school and im going for med school. so i'd much rather study for the entry exams and actually study to become something far more useful than some guy in green[/QUOTE]They don't turn you into a soldier for life, you're acting like if you go through with it you'll be irrevocably damaged. Clearly this isn't about the actual service, you're just stuck on this idea that the military is going to ruin your life and I don't know why. I'm pretty sure there is [I]some[/I] way for you to get a leg up in your career through the military, smart people would either shut up and weasel out of it or bite the bullet and use the situation to their advantage. Whatever sympathy I had for you has pretty much evaporated, you're just being a petulant child.

Compulsary attendance for conscription was suspended here in 1997, but it sounds like it [I]could[/I] be a nice experience. Unless everyone in your unit is an asshole of course then I imagine it wouldn't be a very good time. also even though there is no compulsory attendance anymore they are going to change the law here as well to include women in conscription, though more as a symbolic gesture obviously. I'd say including women is a good thing, and also fair

It's a little ironic to me that the feminist movement has pushed the idea of a rape culture (especially on college campuses) for years, but now that women are joining the military they're surprised that people think rape might be a problem.

I don't understand why some people think they deserve some special treatment, people who trick their way out of their duties should get a criminal record.

[QUOTE=sgman91;50965068]It's a little ironic to me that the feminist movement has pushed the idea of a rape culture (especially on college campuses) for years, but now that women are joining the military they're surprised that people think rape might be a problem.[/QUOTE] This is Norway, not America. American university politics have literally no bearing there.

Fuck doing conscription. It scraped away 2 years of my life, and frankly, nearly everyone finds it a waste of time. And to work for fucked up COs, Warrant Officers and Sergeants who simply see you as slave labour and enjoy punishing enlistees in Basic Military Training No thanks

I remember when i was conscripted, didnt want to at the time but i bit the bullet and hanged on until it was finished. And im a better man for it, looking back, i would do it again.

[QUOTE=duckmaster;50960018]I think they're shitting on him because hes acting like a child about it.[/QUOTE] Id huff and puff and throw tantrums and cry and lie and cheat if it kept the government out of my personal liberty and freedom not to have to go to war for some oligarchs private interest. Not ashamed of that, if its what i need to do then its what i need to do.

[QUOTE=farmatyr;50965400]I don't understand why some people think they deserve some special treatment, people who trick their way out of their duties should get a criminal record.[/QUOTE] Funny thinking about it, back in the 60s all the way to the 90s ( these guys didn't wanna get conscripted either but boo fucking hoo they did their service instead of whining on the Internet) when pretty much every single healthy Swedish man got conscripted many tried to act insane to get a pass to be exempted from conscription. By acting all insane during the tests at the psychological test they did get exempted from being conscripted, problem was they also got branded psychological insane in their civilian papers too.