Men should have the right to ‘abort’ responsibility for an unborn child, Swedish political group say - Polidicks

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49915618]Except when a man wants to have the child but the woman doesn't? And it's not about accountability, the man has no choice in whether or not the baby gets born or not. Whether or not the baby gets born is the choice of the mother, her body, her "choice", her [B]responsibility[/B]. There is no reason that a man should have to pay for the decision to raise a child made by someone else if he wanted no part in it. If a woman doesn't want a child, she has a plethora of birth control options available to her, if a woman doesn't want to have a child she can absolutely have sex whilst avoiding pregnancy these days, and failing that, she still doesn't have to raise it if she doesn't want to. [B]Why is the man legally obligated to pay for mistakes and or decisions made by someone else?[/B][/QUOTE] Have you ever had sex? You realize that it takes a man and a woman to have sex right? Moreover, why should the responsibility of birth control be totally on the woman? Condoms? Spermicide? Are you blaming the woman for getting pregnant as if they willed it like the birth of Christ?

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49915577]I disagree with the equality of choice for both sides. There should be the equality of accountability for both sides. Abortion is not a choice for many women; whether it for spiritual, personal, moralistic, or religious reasons. To absolve a father of all responsibility and then expect a woman who does NOT want an abortion to have a child she can not support is NOT equality. It takes one penis and one vagina to make a baby and if you someone gets pregnant in the midst of it then both parties should be held accountable for those actions. Sometimes shit happens in life you don't want but guess what, you suck it the fuck up. Especially when it's a child. True equality is equal accountability.[/QUOTE] If a woman brings a god damn child into a world and is unable to support it on her own, how is that not fucking cruel? That child will grow up with a father he or she will barely know except on the weekends or at all, being nothing more then a constant reminder to the father he has to pay his weekly or monthly child support check for a living being that he will most likely never be involved with. If you can't afford a child on your own, use the option of abortion or send it to a orphanage. [I]If you can't afford it, don't have it. [/I]

People act like it is so hard for men to avoid putting their dicks inside women. If you don't want responsibility of a child, the answer is simple; don't have sex.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;49915640]If a woman brings a god damn child into a world and is unable to support it on her own, how is that not fucking cruel? That child will grow up with a father he or she will barely know except on the weekends or at all, being nothing more then a constant reminder to the father he has to pay his weekly or monthly child support check for a living being that he will most likely never be involved with. If you can't afford a child on your own, use the option of abortion or send it to a orphanage. [B][I]If you can't afford it, don't have it. [/I][/B][/QUOTE] Maybe it's because you will never have the capability to have a child that you are unable to empathize with a woman who does not want to give up her child or abort it. I am totally for responsible and planned parenthood but that does not mean that a woman should be forced to make a decision she does not want to make.

This would place women in a position where if they can't financially support a child they are essentially forced into a choice of abortion she doesn't want and raising a child with a shitty life quality of life. I know more than guy at work who is getting fucked financially trying to provide child support to a kid he doesn't even get to see but this doesn't seem like a good solution.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;49915647]People act like it is so hard for men to avoid putting their dicks inside women. If you don't want responsibility of a child, the answer is simple; don't have sex.[/QUOTE] The problem I'm seeing here is that women have options, after becoming pregnant, that men don't have. So that argument is kind of hypocritical.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49915662]that does not mean that a woman should be forced to make a decision she does not want to make.[/QUOTE] She has to make the decision regardless, so why does that decision have to force the man to pay for it?

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;49915678]A lot of posts in here say it's the man's choice when he had sex, as if the woman didn't also consent to sex. That's disheartening.[/QUOTE] I hope you're not insinuating I'm saying that because I've stated multiple times it's a two way road, a 50/50 choice (to have sex).

[QUOTE=Raidyr;49915670]this doesn't seem like a good solution.[/QUOTE] Then let the government pay for it, if they're so keen to prevent women from making hard choices. [QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49915694]I hope you're not insinuating I'm saying that because I've stated multiple times it's a two way road, a 50/50 choice (to have sex).[/QUOTE] This has nothing to do with the choice of having sex and everything to do with the fact that only one party actually has a choice on whether conception becomes birth.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49915689]She has to make the decision regardless, so why does that decision have to force the man to pay for it?[/QUOTE] Because the man is also to blame for a child being conceived in the first place. Shit happens in life man; you can't just run away from something because "waaahh I didn't want this". Both parties made the choice to have sex and both parties are held accountable for those actions. I feel like this mentality comes from the idea that pregnancy is an equally shared load.

[QUOTE=BelatedGamer;49915672]The problem I'm seeing here is that women have options, after becoming pregnant, that men don't have. So that argument is kind of hypocritical.[/QUOTE] A woman has to have more options because she is the one carrying the baby. This system will never be equal because only one of them is pregnant over 9 months before giving birth. [QUOTE=RenegadeCop;49915678]A lot of posts in here say it's the man's choice when he had sex, as if the woman didn't also consent to sex. That's disheartening.[/QUOTE] I see more people putting responsibility solely on the woman and absolving men of using contraception. I could easily say that if you don't want to pay child support, use condoms.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49915708]Then let the government pay for it, if they're so keen to prevent women from making hard choices. This has nothing to do with the choice of having sex and everything to do with the fact that only one party actually has a choice on whether conception becomes birth.[/QUOTE] If you don't want to knock someone up use birth control? Or don't have sex? Don't do something if you're not prepared for the potential consequences of those actions? Have you lived life as an adult yet? This idea isn't just applicable to intercourse.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49915708]Then let the government pay for it, if they're so keen to prevent women from making hard choices. This has nothing to do with the choice of having sex and everything to do with the fact that only one party actually has a choice on whether conception becomes birth.[/QUOTE] Because only one party is capable of giving birth. Simple stuff.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49915712]Because the man is also to blame for a child being conceived in the first place. Shit happens in life man; you can't just run away from something because "waaahh I didn't want this". Both parties made the choice to have sex and both parties are held accountable for those actions. I feel like this mentality comes from the idea that pregnancy is an equally shared load.[/QUOTE] No one is suggesting that it's easy on the woman or that men carry an equal burden during pregnancy, and that's specifically why THEY HAVE NO CHOICE on whether or not the child is born or not. Why then is it their responsibility to pay for a choice they had no part in? Choosing to have sex is NOT the same as choosing to have a kid, and to say that it is, is bullshit.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;49915743]If you don't want to die in a car wreck, don't go near roads![/QUOTE] More like if you don't want to die in a car wreck wear your seat belt.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49915748]No one is suggesting that it's easy on the woman or that men carry an equal burden during pregnancy, and that's specifically why THEY HAVE NO CHOICE on whether or not the child is born or not. [b]Why then is it their responsibility to pay for a choice they had no part in?[/b] Choosing to have sex is NOT the same as choosing to have a kid, and to say that it is, is bullshit.[/QUOTE] They had a part in the choice when they decided to consent to sex? The choice doesn't start at the idea of "keep it or not". Choosing to have sex is NOT choosing to have a kid and you're absolutely right! But what is the actual biological function of sex? To have a kid, right? So if you're going to do it for fun, you should be well aware of the potential consequences of that and should be fully prepared for those consequences.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;49915761]Oh yeah, why did I think he said something about abstinence? oops[/QUOTE] Because they were arguing that you shouldn't have sex unless you were willing to raise kids, which is a bullshit argument. edit: See above post for details.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49915776]Because they were arguing that you shouldn't have sex unless you were willing to raise kids, which is a bullshit argument.[/QUOTE] Nobody is arguing that. I am arguing if you are going to have sex you do so knowing very well what the risks are. That is why things like birth control and contraceptives exist, to minimize that risk. Minimizing risk does not absolve you of responsibility though if someone becomes pregnant in the process. [editline]12th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=soulharvester;49915776]Because they were arguing that you shouldn't have sex unless you were willing to raise kids, which is a bullshit argument. edit: See above post for details.[/QUOTE] I think you completely misread my post.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49915783]Nobody is arguing that. I am arguing if you are going to have sex you do so knowing very well what the risks are. That is why things like birth control and contraceptives exist, to minimize that risk. Minimizing risk does not absolve you of responsibility though if someone becomes pregnant in the process. [editline]12th March 2016[/editline] I think you completely misread my post.[/QUOTE] So a girl can birth control, accidentally have a child while drunk, say fuck the father, and still collect his checks, even with no feeling for the child? Yet a man can't have any legal option whatsoever to get out? You are a special kind of stupid.

[QUOTE=find me;49915798]So a girl can birth control, accidentally have a child while drunk, say fuck the father, and still collect his checks, even with no feeling for the child? Yet a man can't have any legal option whatsoever to get out? You are a special kind of stupid.[/QUOTE] How does a woman accidentally have a child while drunk? The equation is Man + Woman = Baby. Not Woman + ??? = Baby. You're placing all the blame on the woman again. A drunk chick doesn't fuck herself and get pregnant, it takes two to tango.

No, I didn't, at all. That's your argument. You're saying that men have to use 100% effective contraception (Which isn't widely available for men, condoms can fail, women can lie) or risk paying a huge chunk of their income in child support for 18 years every time they have sex. While women have all the rights to terminate or keep a pregnancy. It's my view that if the women chooses to have a baby that a man doesn't want, it's on her to pay for it. Because it's her choice, and it has nothing to do with the man, who has no legal say in the matter. I'm not going to keep arguing with you because you clearly aren't willing to concede that sex = 18 year liability for men, which I disagree with, and there's no point discussing it beyond that.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49915820]No, I didn't, at all. That's your argument. [B]You're saying that men have to use 100% effective contraception[/B] (Which isn't widely available for men, condoms can fail, women can lie) or risk paying a huge chunk of their income in child support for 18 years every time they have sex. While women have all the rights to terminate or keep a pregnancy. It's my view that if the women chooses to have a baby that a man doesn't want, it's on her to pay for it. Because it's her choice, and it has nothing to do with the man, who has no legal say in the matter. I'm not going to keep arguing with you because you clearly aren't willing to concede that sex = 18 year liability for men, which I disagree with, and there's no point discussing it beyond that.[/QUOTE] No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I am saying that it is BOTH parties responsibility to use contraception if they do not want a child. Or don't have sex if you can't handle the risk of a pregnancy possibly happening??? The only 100% effective birth control is abstinence and I am in NO way saying that sex is only for making babies but if you are going to have sex you are taking a risk and should be fully prepared for the consequences of that risk regardless if you want a kid or not. I don't like throwing this around a lot but you seem really misogynistic even if you're not blatant about it. Sex is an 18 year liability for men? How is it not an 18 year liability for women as well? Why should the woman be 100% responsible for that 18 year liability when it takes two people to fuck and have a kid in the first place.

[b]Because she had the right to terminate.[/b]

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49915835][B]Because she had the right to terminate.[/B][/QUOTE] She had the choice but she chose not to pursue it (in our hypothetical). That's what pro-choice means. You have a CHOICE. Telling a woman to suck it up and get an abortion if a man doesn't want to help raise the child is NOT pro choice. THAT is true inequality.

She still has a choice to terminate the pregnancy or give up the child.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49915811]How does a woman accidentally have a child while drunk? The equation is Man + Woman = Baby. Not Woman + ??? = Baby. You're placing all the blame on the woman again. A drunk chick doesn't fuck herself and get pregnant, it takes two to tango.[/QUOTE] So a drunk man, and a drunk women have sex, having a baby. Neither of which intending for that to happen. Woman still has options, man does not. End of story. You are pushing this thread so hard it's nasty. Nothing functional, just biased.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49915820]No, I didn't, at all. That's your argument. You're saying that men have to use 100% effective contraception (Which isn't widely available for men, condoms can fail, women can lie) or risk paying a huge chunk of their income in child support for 18 years every time they have sex.[/QUOTE] What is the failure rate of condoms? What do women lying have to do with you wrapping up and using spermicide? You're all for preaching your libertarian message of personal responsibility with regards to women but men are devoid of all agency in your hypothetical. They didn't choose to have unprotected sex with someone capable of having a child but fuck it they should get a way out.

[QUOTE=find me;49915865]So a drunk man, and a drunk women have sex, having a baby. Neither of which intending for that to happen. Woman still has options, man does not. End of story. You are pushing this thread so hard it's nasty. Nothing functional, just biased.[/QUOTE] Being drunk has never been a legal precedent to absolve someone of responsibility (man and woman). [editline]12th March 2016[/editline] Look, I'm pro-choice all the way but I am also pro-sucking it up and facing the consequences of your actions whether you intended for something to happen or not.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49915844]She had the choice but she chose not to pursue it (in our hypothetical). That's what pro-choice means. You have a CHOICE. Telling a woman to suck it up and get an abortion if a man doesn't want to help raise the child is NOT pro choice. THAT is true inequality.[/QUOTE] In your scenario the father not wanting a child is equal to forcing her to terminate, which is untrue. She can choose to raise it despite the father not wanting it. Why are you making these absurd assumptions?

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49915770]They had a part in the choice when they decided to consent to sex? The choice doesn't start at the idea of "keep it or not". Choosing to have sex is NOT choosing to have a kid and you're absolutely right! But what is the actual biological function of sex? To have a kid, right? So if you're going to do it for fun, you should be well aware of the potential consequences of that and should be fully prepared for those consequences.[/QUOTE] How the conception came to be doesn't matter, that's not what "legal abortion" is about. At this point in time, Swedish females have a right to a legal ways out, males does not. This isn't talking about methods both parties can decide on, this is talking about methods that individuals decide on. Arguing about past events on maybe this or that should have been done is completely moot, because the conception has already happened and males can't legally do shit about it. This is a system to talk about if conception is achieved for whatever reason, here are both of your options, male here are your options, female here are you options. Sweden women have the right to abort a child, men do not have the same right, that is all this is and nothing more.