[QUOTE=RoboChimp;38611230]They wouldn't do this, Gigabyte and Asus would sue them.[/QUOTE]
What legal grounds would Gigabyte and Asus have to sue Intel on? Do either of those companies have a contract with Intel that says "You must produce processors for us to build mobos for"? I really, really doubt it. Intel doesn't give a fuck about motherboard manufacturers; it can make its own boards. In fact, it would rather make its own boards because every board you buy from Asus/MSI/Gigabyte/etc is one you don't buy from Intel.
Furthermore they don't care about gamers. The enthusiast market for PCs is infinitesimally small compared to the market for idiot-proof computer "consoles". The average person is too stupid/doesn't care about the differences between components. Many probably don't even realize processors are replaceable now.
It sucks as a gamer but I don't doubt for a moment that this is true. AMD gave up on trying to compete ages ago and now Intel is just consolidating its sizable lead. We've come to the point now where modern CPUs are so powerful that cookie-cutter console computers can fit a very high percentage of the average user's needs. Those same machines are a lot cheaper to build (for Dell or whoever) with standardized parts and, if they are one-size-fits-all, companies will be able to make one or two products and eliminate all the other options, further reducing costs and confusion for the average idiot who doesn't know the difference between an i5 3750k and an AMD Phenom.
As consoles hold PC gaming development back, so too does the average moron hold back the enthusiast who knows what he/she/it's doing. Unfortunately there are a lot more stupid people than there are smart people and from a business standpoint this is a very smart move on Intel's part. It would give them close to a monopoly on motherboards and processors.
Compare the number of people who know anything about GPUs, CPUs, mobos, etc to the number of people with tablets, smartphones, Macs and prebuilt computers who don't know any of that stuff. There is enough enthusiast desire to support Nvidia and whatnot sure but if you think that number is at all close to the "casual" market and the money those people have you're flat out wrong. If that market was so big why does Nvidia have a mobile division? Why does Intel? Because that stuff makes them money. With the current trend of smartphone and tablet adoption that stuff will likely soon be making them more money than their traditional components.
The traditional pc market is definitely shrinking. While I agree that people crying the sky is falling and "this is the end of desktop computing" are overreacting at this stage, I cannot at all see how this would be a bad move on Intel's part. Sure they anger some gamers but even in the PC gaming market there are plenty of people who buy premade rigs and don't know how to build the thing themselves who, like the "casual" market, also don't care if their CPU is replaceable or not.
The only people this hurts is the true enthusiast market and I would be willing to bet we represent a far smaller chunk of Intel's revenues than you think. I would also bet Nvidia's sales are mostly to OEMs and that sales to individuals, while not insignificant, are not as high as their sales to, say, Dell and/or Apple.
You are overinflating the enthusiast market's influence. Nvidia doesn't care because OEMs will still use their chips and GPUs and they have their mobile market chips. Intel doesn't care because they are the market leader and will still sell boatloads of product to OEMs still. The OEM doesn't care what motherboard it gets for the most part as long as it fits in their cases. Do you think Dell cares if it sells a computer with a soldered in cpu vs. one with a normal socket? Why would they?
Maybe I "have no clue what I'm talking about" but unless I see some numbers showing this supposed huge enthusiast spending I think I will stick to the "safe" idea that the many idiots have more money than the few of us who know what we're doing. Apple's still growing market share after all.
Lmao if they actually do this 100% for all future processors you can say bye bye to intel being used widely by custom PC's/enthusiasts and AMD will suddenly avoid bankruptcy and become top dog again
I mean sure intel isn't going to die or anything because OEMs are still the majority of the market and they have a ton of other stuff going on. But their "educated buyer" and "enthusiasts" markets will likely just bail ship on intel entirely, which seems like to me a really bad idea for them.
[editline]28th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Paintcheck;38627077]Compare the number of people who know anything about GPUs, CPUs, mobos, etc to the number of people with tablets, smartphones, Macs and prebuilt computers who don't know any of that stuff. There is enough enthusiast desire to support Nvidia and whatnot sure but if you think that number is at all close to the "casual" market and the money those people have you're flat out wrong. If that market was so big why does Nvidia have a mobile division? Why does Intel? Because that stuff makes them money. With the current trend of smartphone and tablet adoption that stuff will likely soon be making them more money than their traditional components.
The traditional pc market is definitely shrinking. While I agree that people crying the sky is falling and "this is the end of desktop computing" are overreacting at this stage, I cannot at all see how this would be a bad move on Intel's part. Sure they anger some gamers but even in the PC gaming market there are plenty of people who buy premade rigs and don't know how to build the thing themselves who, like the "casual" market, also don't care if their CPU is replaceable or not.
The only people this hurts is the true enthusiast market and I would be willing to bet we represent a far smaller chunk of Intel's revenues than you think. I would also bet Nvidia's sales are mostly to OEMs and that sales to individuals, while not insignificant, are not as high as their sales to, say, Dell and/or Apple.
You are overinflating the enthusiast market's influence. Nvidia doesn't care because OEMs will still use their chips and GPUs and they have their mobile market chips. Intel doesn't care because they are the market leader and will still sell boatloads of product to OEMs still. The OEM doesn't care what motherboard it gets for the most part as long as it fits in their cases. Do you think Dell cares if it sells a computer with a soldered in cpu vs. one with a normal socket? Why would they?
Maybe I "have no clue what I'm talking about" but unless I see some numbers showing this supposed huge enthusiast spending I think I will stick to the "safe" idea that the many idiots have more money than the few of us who know what we're doing. Apple's still growing market share after all.[/QUOTE]
I always hate people who say the PC gaming/enthusiast/whatever market is shrinking because it very clearly isn't. If anything the market has seen a boom recently due to the advent of Steam's worldwide sucess and people becoming more comfortable with the idea of going away from closed hardware systems into more open ones.
The thing is, the market as a whole has been growing. The Enthusiast market is larger than it was 5 years ago for sure. However the consumer electronics market for tablet/"smart"/etc PC's has also grown, and grown at a rate where its adopted and accepted by the general consumer.
So it's less that the PC enthuiast market has shrunk. It's more that the non-enthusiast market has exploded at the same time as the entire spectrum of PC/computing markets in general were growing.
These kinds of CPUs can actually theoretically perform better since the 'pins' are shorter.
[QUOTE=TonyP;38627756]These kinds of CPUs can actually theoretically perform better since the 'pins' are shorter.[/QUOTE]
The difference would be practically unnoticeable.
the costs of prebuilt cpu/gpu/whatever on a chip and performace will probably dovetail and then get better than building it yourself eventually, and tbh in the future if instead of a PC you had a console does it really matter if you can do everything you could on a PC, but faster? ((and instead of upgrading you buy a new one, which would probably be cheaper))
[editline]28th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=KorJax;38627645]Lmao if they actually do this 100% for all future processors you can say bye bye to intel being used widely by custom PC's/enthusiasts and AMD will suddenly avoid bankruptcy and become top dog again
[/QUOTE]
Not really, intel can easily survive without the custom pc market and I doublt AMD will "get back to the top of their game" instantly and avoid bankruptcy because of constant competition by intel (I doubt the custom look-at-my-numbers pc market is big enough to support AMD completely)
[QUOTE=Eltro102;38630762]the costs of prebuilt cpu/gpu/whatever on a chip and performace will probably dovetail and then get better than building it yourself eventually, and tbh in the future if instead of a PC you had a console does it really matter if you can do everything you could on a PC, but faster? ((and instead of upgrading you buy a new one, which would probably be cheaper))
[/QUOTE]
Yes it's a lot more important to be able to build a pc instead of getting a pre-built soldered one. It will drop max 100$ off the price. Not worth it. If anything, it will increase in price like many prebuilts are.
I dread the time where they resin parts inside PCs.
One tiny part dies?
BETTER GET A NEW TOWER
[QUOTE='[EG] Pepper;38631472']I dread the time where they resin parts inside PCs.
One tiny part dies?
BETTER GET A NEW TOWER[/QUOTE]What's next? Nonremovable storage?
But I will survive
[url]http://www.supermicro.com/index_home.cfm[/url]
But independent motherboards are fucking awesome...
God, what dicks.
Hope this is untrue.
I can understand soldering the processor to the mainboard in products like [URL="http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/motherboards/desktop-motherboards/next-unit-computing-introduction.html"]Intel's NuC series.[/URL]
Otherwise than that it seems retarded.
If this is aimed more at their mobile CPUs, then it is totally understandable. I can't see them doing it for all of their CPU lines, seeing as the actual sales of CPUs is quite a good bit of income and it would be market suicide. Even if AMD died off somehow, I have a feeling moving to BGA for all their processors would just kill their sales.
Just hope that they use good solder for the BGA, otherwise we'll be having PS3 problems in a whole new device!
[QUOTE=hexpunK;38632128]If this is aimed more at their mobile CPUs, then it is totally understandable. I can't see them doing it for all of their CPU lines, seeing as the actual sales of CPUs is quite a good bit of income and it would be market suicide. Even if AMD died off somehow, I have a feeling moving to BGA for all their processors would just kill their sales.
Just hope that they use good solder for the BGA, otherwise we'll be having PS3 problems in a whole new device![/QUOTE]
Don't forget the Nvidia Geforce 8x00 series.
Especially laptops were affected by that one.
[QUOTE=Van-man;38632142]Don't forget the Nvidia Geforce 8x00 series.
Especially laptops were affected by that one.[/QUOTE]
I do remember that actually. You would have thought every company would have looked into how they cooled and joined BGA chips after something like that happened.
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