• Lebanon's unity government collapses as Hezbollah, allies quit
    67 replies, posted
It's not a joke, I can't trust anyone who only appears through TV screens. Too evil-guy-from-james-bond-movie-like for me.
[QUOTE=Random94;27406928]No im not saying anything like that but what im saying is that Hezbollah are manipulating the Shia of lebanon only for accomplishing their political goals by using faith.[/QUOTE] Well I think believing that Shiites will massacre Sunnis if they are in power, which most Shittes were/or are currently extreme
Couldn't you make the claim that Israel is at least [i]somewhat[/i] responsible for Hezbollah's creation(it was created after an Israeli invasion of Lebanon IIRC) and that by extension are partially responsible for the lives that the Hezbollah militant wing has taken anyways?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;27406947]It's not a joke, I can't trust anyone who only appears through TV screens. Too evil-guy-from-james-bond-movie-like for me.[/QUOTE]It's so Israel does not assassinate him. Though he did come out once recently. [url]http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/hezbollah-chief-nasrallah-emerges-from-bunker-to-plant-a-tree-1.317973[/url] [editline]14th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;27406960]Couldn't you make the claim that Israel is at least [i]somewhat[/i] responsible for Hezbollah's creation(it was created after an Israeli invasion of Lebanon IIRC) and that by extension are partially responsible for the lives that the Hezbollah militant wing has taken anyways?[/QUOTE] Yes, [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4314423.stm[/url]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;27406960]Couldn't you make the claim that Israel is at least [i]somewhat[/i] responsible for Hezbollah's creation(it was created after an Israeli invasion of Lebanon IIRC) and that by extension are partially responsible for the lives that the Hezbollah militant wing has taken anyways?[/QUOTE] Does this also mean that the Arabs are [i]somewhat[/i] responsible for Israel's land expansion and expulsion of the Arabs living in the areas Israel expanded to in 1948 because the Arabs invaded Israel after it declared independence?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;27406960]Couldn't you make the claim that Israel is at least [i]somewhat[/i] responsible for Hezbollah's creation(it was created after an Israeli invasion of Lebanon IIRC) and that by extension are partially responsible for the lives that the Hezbollah militant wing has taken anyways?[/QUOTE] No that's a preposterous extension. No-one makes Hezbollah militants bomb Israeli civilians except Hezbollah militants. Maybe the Wright Brothers should take responsibility for the lives lost in the London Blitz?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;27406978]Does this also mean that the Arabs are [I]somewhat[/I] responsible for Israel's land expansion and expulsion of the Arabs living in the areas Israel expanded to in 1948 because the Arabs invaded Israel after it declared independence?[/QUOTE] And by extension you can blame the UK and UN for this shit for stealing the land from the Palestinians and giving it to an outside group of people(the Hebrews) in the first place. [QUOTE=Dr_Funk;27407016]No that's a preposterous extension. No-one makes Hezbollah militants bomb Israeli civilians except Hezbollah militants. Maybe the Wright Brothers should take responsibility for the lives lost in the London Blitz?[/QUOTE] When the whole reason that Hezbollah existed was to oust Israeli invaders that large extension suddenly becomes a lot smaller.
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;27407016]No that's a preposterous extension. No-one makes Hezbollah militants bomb Israeli civilians except Hezbollah militants. Maybe the Wright Brothers should take responsibility for the lives lost in the London Blitz?[/QUOTE] Horrible analogy. Hezbollah was created in self-defense to Israeli aggression and occupation in Lebanon, to end this, Hezbollah was formed to force them out. Self-defense is not comparable to the [quote]Wright Brothers should take responsibility for the lives lost in the London Blitz?[/quote] analogy [editline] f [/editline] Wont be responding for a bit, going to play BF2
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;27407016]No that's a preposterous extension. No-one makes Hezbollah militants bomb Israeli civilians except Hezbollah militants. Maybe the Wright Brothers should take responsibility for the lives lost in the London Blitz?[/QUOTE] And I'm not saying all responsibility should be put on Israel, I am saying that they are at least somewhat responsible for the group's creation and why they are so militant and hateful of the Israelis.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;27406953]Well I think believing that Shiites will massacre Sunnis if they are in power, which most Shittes were/or are currently extreme[/QUOTE] What i meant that Hezzbolah did Organise massacres, i even had family memberes who were in lebanon in 2006 and the Shitte neighborhoods there were dangerous for sunnis to go to.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;27407035]And by extension you can blame the UK and UN for this shit for stealing the land from the Palestinians and giving it to an outside group of people(the Hebrews) in the first place.[/quote] Except they didn't steal it - They won it from the Ottoman empire, then, they decided to prepare the land for independence for two people: the Arabs native to the land, and the Jews who were immigrating there long before the British got the land. The Jews also didn't steal those lands, they bought them from the Arabs. So you could say that the British had a hand in causing it, but they didn't do anything wrong. On the other hand, the Ottomans were the ones who made some extreme laws regarding tax and conscription which encouraged the Arabs to sell their lands, which enabled the whole land exchange thing, so if anybody is to blame for the whole thing, it's the Ottoman empire. But that still doesn't rid the blame of the Arabs for the Palestinian exodus and Israel's expansion during 1948.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;27407039]Horrible analogy. Hezbollah was created in self-defense to Israeli aggression and occupation in Lebanon, to end this, Hezbollah was formed to force them out. [/QUOTE] and destroy the state of Israel. You forgot something, bro. I bet you've forgotten a lot of things. In terms of the creation of Hezbollah, yes - Hezbollah was formed in response to the occupation of Lebanon by the Israelis, who invaded due to PLO terrorist attacks across the border. Agreed. However, I simply won't accept that the Israelis should thus be blamed for Hezbollah killings. E: Also, something picked up on the Hezbollah wiki page: "Structurally, Hezbollah does not distinguish between its political/social activities within Lebanon and its military/jihad activities against Israel. "Hezbollah has a single leadership," according to Naim Qassem, Hezbollah's second in command. "All political, social and jihad work is tied to the decisions of this leadership ... The same leadership that directs the parliamentary and government work also leads jihad actions in the struggle against Israel.""
[QUOTE=yawmwen;27407042]And I'm not saying all responsibility should be put on Israel, I am saying that they are at least somewhat responsible for the group's creation and why they are so militant and hateful of the Israelis.[/QUOTE] Well that's true, it's like saying that Britain, France and the US caused the Nazi power to gain popular support and take charge of Germany because of the harsh peace terms they put on Germany at WWI, but it's not like they're to blame for it, they were just the prime cause.
I think I've heard something similar to this from Norman Finkelstein comparing Hezbollah to the French Resistance or some shit. It a fair comparison if they are occupying Lebanon, then they are the people's resistance. I think in this case though they are more a paramilitary that the government has no control over. Resistance often happens when as the Vietcong would say, you grab them by the belt buckle. Hezbollah's current actions are more aggressive towards another nation. If you live in that country and you place bombs, that's resisting. If you launch rockets over a border into land which isn't really your country, that's aggression.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;27387804] So basically it's true that Hamas and Hezbollah do some good, but they also do a lot of evil.[/QUOTE] Just like USA that names these groups and everyone inside them by a name, that has a name, but not really a spefific attributes: Terrorists. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;27406505] How the hell could anyone say that Hezbollah as a whole isn't evil. Their leader, Nasrallah, fucking talks to his people through huge TV screens, just look at him. I don't know about you but when someone does something like that, I just can't think of him as anything but evil.[/QUOTE] [img]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/tvdecoder/posts/0808/cspan-obama.jpg[/img] [img]http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/44_01_21/4411_17674807.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Radman;27408220]Just like USA that names these groups and everyone inside them by a name, that has a name, but not really a spefific attributes: Terrorists. [img_thumb]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/tvdecoder/posts/0808/cspan-obama.jpg[/img_thumb] [img_thumb]http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/44_01_21/4411_17674807.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] Every leader appears on television screens, but none of them appear ONLY on television screens. Nasrallah almost always appears on television screens and never in person. Obama and many other leaders often have speeches in person, not through television screens. It's also the way he appears, not only the fact that he appears.
Is this a good thing?
Nothing is a good thing.
What does appearing on TV screens have to do with anything? If that's a serious argument, then that's a bit silly.
It's just absurdly reminiscent of 1984. It makes sense for him to use them, but it still has the aura of it.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;27418382]It's just absurdly reminiscent of 1984. It makes sense for him to use them, but it still has the aura of it.[/QUOTE] Yes, I get the reference, but it's not like he uses the TVs because he's some evil collectivist oligarchical Stalinist or anything.
[QUOTE=marlkarxv2;27418401]Yes, I get the reference, but it's not like he uses the TVs because he's some evil collectivist Stalinist or anything.[/QUOTE] I know, there's almost no connection aside from the similarities in appearance. People are always going to make strange connections like that though, even if they have no relevance.
[QUOTE=ken188;27376729]37% of Lebanon's government is made up of terrorists. :downs:[/QUOTE] Difference between Freedom fighters and terrorists, and suicide bombers and martyr´s, is nothing more than perspective.
[QUOTE=marlkarxv2;27418343]What does appearing on TV screens have to do with anything? If that's a serious argument, then that's a bit silly.[/QUOTE] One could say he's not a good leader, simply because he fails to appear in person to his people. While this is most likely not true, it does speak that he does live in fear. But aside from the 1984-esque appearence, he does have to be commended respect, even though he is behind a television screen, the people flock to hear his words and call him a hero. Which is something you certainly never see in most first world.
[QUOTE=Notnotprobydoby;27418839]Difference between Freedom fighters and terrorists, and suicide bombers and martyr´s, is nothing more than perspective.[/QUOTE] Nah there's differences, you just don't want to learn. Also it can be somewhat justifiable if their cause and means are fine.
[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;27418853]One could say he's not a good leader, simply because he fails to appear in person to his people. While this is most likely not true, it does speak that he does live in fear. But aside from the 1984-esque appearence, he does have to be commended respect, even though he is behind a television screen, the people flock to hear his words and call him a hero. Which is something you certainly never see in most first world.[/QUOTE] Sounds like you don't know anything about him, how do you know he only makes appearances on TV? I looked it up and I can't find anything about such a thing.
[QUOTE=marlkarxv2;27419185]Sounds like you don't know anything about him, how do you know he only makes appearances on TV? I looked it up and I can't find anything about such a thing.[/QUOTE] From what I've seen of his speeches to the Lebanese people, he typically avoids public appearances because he fears for his life. [quote=CNN] Nasrallah does not appear in public amid concerns for his safety.[/quote] [URL]http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/11/30/lebanon.hezbollah/[/URL] [quote=CNS]Nasrallah delivered the platform at an event held at a Beirut hall, where he appeared by video link on a giant screen. Lebanese media reports said he does not appear in public often, fearing Israeli assassination attempts.[/quote] [URL="http://url=http://www.cnsnews.com/node/57902"]http://www.cnsnews.com/node/57902[/URL] [URL]http://english.moqawama.org/essaydetails.php?eid=11952&cid=231[/URL] [URL]http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/10/201010144486491890.html[/URL] [URL]http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=121969#axzz1B3pwe43t[/URL]
[QUOTE=ken188;27376729]37% of Lebanon's government is made up of terrorists. :downs:[/QUOTE][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_847]TWA Flight 847[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khobar_Towers_bombing]Khobar Tower Bombing[/url] Yes, Hezbollah is a terrorist organization.
[QUOTE=W0w00t;27377540]then they shoot missiles at israel then israel shoots back then israel dozes some of their settlements and so forth[/QUOTE] And Israel invades Palestinian land. The real point is that Israel and Hezbollah are both immature governments that prefer war over settling things diplomatically.
[QUOTE=Nyaos;27424744]And Israel invades Palestinian land. The real point is that Israel and Hezbollah are both immature governments that prefer war over settling things diplomatically.[/QUOTE] One of Hezbollah's stated goals is the ultimate destruction of the state of Israel. How do you settle that diplomatically?
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