Sales of George Orwell's 1984 surge after Kellyanne Conway's 'alternative facts' - Polidicks

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51722561]They're gonna be upset when they realise the book was actually a criticism of the left, not the right.[/Quote] [QUOTE=gman003-main;51721721]Have [I]you[/I] actually read Animal Farm? Because a novel about a populist anti-establishment leader who, immediately upon reaching office, betrays all his supporters, keeps the old oppressive system going under his new leadership, becomes even more corrupt than the regime he replaced, and spouts egocentric self-serving lies that he forces others to follow under threat of retaliation, seems to be a hell of a lot more about Trump than the protestors. In fact, about the only thing I see that's similar between Animal Farm and the current protests is that the participants in both are generally on the left of the political spectrum. But so were the characters in 1984 - Ingsoc is newspeak for "English Socialism", in case you forgot that detail. Reminder: George Orwell was a democratic socialist, in the original sense of the term, influenced by Trotskyism and anarcho-syndicalism. He wanted to end capitalism and unite Europe. [I]Animal Farm[/I] and [I]Nineteen Eighty-Four[/I] are critiques of Stalinism and the Soviet Union, not Socialism or Communism in general, despite what American public-school teachers often claim.[/QUOTE] The. Book. Criticises. Dictatorships. Not. Left.

I read the exact same news story shortly after Obama was first elected. People think every president is going to turn the world into 1984

[QUOTE=Loofiloo;51723069]I read the exact same news story shortly after Obama was first elected. People think every president is going to turn the world into 1984[/QUOTE] Maybe it already is.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51721692]"If you protest the american government you must be a commie"[/QUOTE] It's like Idiocracy meets 1984.

[QUOTE=Loofiloo;51723069]I read the exact same news story shortly after Obama was first elected. People think every president is going to turn the world into 1984[/QUOTE] Well he's already silenced the EPA

[QUOTE=Chonch;51721811]The eternal truth. Radford's 1984 > Anderson's 1984[/QUOTE] Definitely agree. Own the book as well, picked it up at the uni book store in '13.. read it twice now.

[QUOTE=Damjen;51722852]The. Book. Criticises. Dictatorships. Not. Left.[/QUOTE] Really? I must have read this book fifteen times and I didn't think it was meant to be political at all.Sure it's a backdrop, but the theme I picked up on the most is the fragility of the human spirit. It doesn't matter what you believe, a man can be twisted and turned to willfully think anything and act accordingly. The moral of the story is that good and evil and right and left and even love are all just flimsy spooks. The only thing that matters is right now. It's a very harsh realist, almost nihilistic theme. Trying to spin 1984 as a warning sign or a persecution of any particular ideology is superficial at best and ultimately selfish and ignorant, in the sense that the Party is selfish and ignorant of anything but it's own ends.

[QUOTE=Chonch;51723239]Really? I must have read this book fifteen times and I didn't think it was meant to be political at all.Sure it's a backdrop, but the theme I picked up on the most is the fragility of the human spirit. It doesn't matter what you believe, a man can be twisted and turned to willfully think anything and act accordingly. The moral of the story is that good and evil and right and left and even love are all just flimsy spooks. The only thing that matters is right now. It's a very harsh realist, almost nihilistic theme. Trying to spin 1984 as a warning sign or a persecution of any particular ideology is superficial at best and ultimately selfish and ignorant, in the sense that the Party is selfish and ignorant of anything but it's own ends.[/QUOTE] No it's definitely meant to be political, you can tell by how it's written, the long pages of details into the parties working read almost like a political treatise. Personally didn't enjoy the book much from a fiction perspective as a result, it's very firmly a political book.

Meh Orwell life seems interesting Imo Let's just try it

[QUOTE=Chonch;51723239]Really? I must have read this book fifteen times and I didn't think it was meant to be political at all.Sure it's a backdrop, but the theme I picked up on the most is the fragility of the human spirit. It doesn't matter what you believe, a man can be twisted and turned to willfully think anything and act accordingly. The moral of the story is that good and evil and right and left and even love are all just flimsy spooks. The only thing that matters is right now. It's a very harsh realist, almost nihilistic theme. Trying to spin 1984 as a warning sign or a persecution of any particular ideology is superficial at best and ultimately selfish and ignorant, in the sense that the Party is selfish and ignorant of anything but it's own ends.[/QUOTE] I can agree only in the sense that for Party the only thing that matters is power, which is alluded in how status quo supposedly doesn't change when the Great Enemy changes. But it's a thoroughly political book, with its detailed descriptions of how and why Party came into power and how it keeps it. The book is an examination of human frailty primarily [B]in contrast[/B] to the totalitarian state apparatus. More text is devoted to describing the State than human feelings.

It's amazing how many people here who completely missed the point of Animal Farm. The book is on it's surface level an allegory on communism using animals, but much more importantly it highlights the flaws in revolution and how even the noblest of intentions can lead to the most frightening circumstances. In a nutshell: Most revolutions establish worse tyrannies than they destroy and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[QUOTE=Destroyox;51721608]What does Communism have to do with this?[/QUOTE] Doesn't the statement "all animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others" remind you of anything in 2016?

[QUOTE=KnightLight;51721624]A reminder that extremism in either direction is bad. Trump is on the "1984" side while the protesters in the streets are "Animal Farm".[/QUOTE] What relation do the protesters have to the Soviets? Thats a serious question. [editline]25th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=wewt!;51723658]Doesn't the statement "all animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others" remind you of anything in 2016?[/QUOTE] Ooh ooh! pick me! "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" Yet low social mobility means people who are born in the wrong zipcode will likely stay poor for their whole lives. Or how if you have the wrong skin colour you are more likely to be [URL="http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399?utm_campaign=ntw&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ntw"]treated violently[/URL] by the police. Did I win? All men are created equal, but some men just happen to be born to poor parents in a neighbourhood with high crime and low opportunities. [URL="https://www.gov.uk/government/news/research-finds-women-paid-less-than-men-in-90-of-sectors"]At least they're men though[/URL] [sp]OK so its a study from the uk[/sp]

[QUOTE=Chonch;51723239]Really? I must have read this book fifteen times and I didn't think it was meant to be political at all.Sure it's a backdrop, but the theme I picked up on the most is the fragility of the human spirit. It doesn't matter what you believe, a man can be twisted and turned to willfully think anything and act accordingly. The moral of the story is that good and evil and right and left and even love are all just flimsy spooks. The only thing that matters is right now. It's a very harsh realist, almost nihilistic theme. Trying to spin 1984 as a warning sign or a persecution of any particular ideology is superficial at best and ultimately selfish and ignorant, in the sense that the Party is selfish and ignorant of anything but it's own ends.[/QUOTE] I guess you skipped the end of the book, that is literal pages of political ideology?

1984 is one of the classics that everyone ought to read for personal edification. As a far leftist, I can appreciate the message behind it; the warnings against totalitarianism and against the deprecation of the humanities - of humanity, of the individual - for the sake of "better", more efficient control of the collective population still ring true today.

Saw this earlier and made me think of this thread [t]http://i.imgur.com/AJniRGw.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=ferrus;51726807]Saw this earlier and made me think of this thread [t]http://i.imgur.com/AJniRGw.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Amusing Ourselves to Death is a wonderful book, and I would encourage you all to read it if you haven't already. Neil Postman originally wrote it in 1985, but here's an updated version from 2006 in glorious .pdf format: [url]https://mafhom.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/amusing-ourselves-to-death.pdf[/url] It's also not even 200 pages, so it's a quick read.

[QUOTE=Chonch;51723239]Really? I must have read this book fifteen times and I didn't think it was meant to be political at all.Sure it's a backdrop, but the theme I picked up on the most is the fragility of the human spirit. It doesn't matter what you believe, a man can be twisted and turned to willfully think anything and act accordingly. The moral of the story is that good and evil and right and left and even love are all just flimsy spooks. The only thing that matters is right now. It's a very harsh realist, almost nihilistic theme. Trying to spin 1984 as a warning sign or a persecution of any particular ideology is superficial at best and ultimately selfish and ignorant, in the sense that the Party is selfish and ignorant of anything but it's own ends.[/QUOTE] No, you can quite clearly see the mirroring with political themes. I believe it mirrors Stalin, Leon Trotsky, etc in an abstract fashion. Hence the talking pigs that can somehow write and climb ladders (wtf?). But shit, I know sod all about english literature so it could just be a kids book as far as I know. A good interpretation I picked up in that section at the beginning was that one of the messages was "to get rid of your leaders as soon as they have done their job".