• Turns out #gamergate was just a bunch of shitty 4channers out to destroy careers of people they don'
    92 replies, posted
[QUOTE=RichyZ;45922381]no zeke listen you're dumb and on the wrong side i dont get it why arent you agreeing with me yet[/QUOTE] Really elevating the level of discourse with this gem, pal! How about this for your next magnum opus; don't post
[QUOTE=CheeseMan;45922398]Really elevating the level of discourse with this gem, pal! How about this for your next magnum opus; don't post[/QUOTE] What are jokes?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45922340]This is where the core of our disagreement comes from probably. It was never Quinn's job to hold journalists to their standards. She tried sleeping with people, and succeeded. Aside from the cheating (which doesn't have anything to do with games) that's where the moral issues on Quinn's part ends. It was those journalists who made the decision to ignore the standards they claimed to hold themselves to. But guess what? I don't really care about that either. And that's why I'm against this whole #gamergate thing. Not out of some desire to protect Quinn, but because [i]gaming journalism doesn't matter[/i]. There's so much misplaced anger here it's comical. There will never be a Cronkite or a Woodward of the games industry. No gaming journalist will influence world politics, start or end a war, or topple governments. In the end, these people help us decide what $10-$60 thing we'll buy. They're basically food critics. Instead of treating this situation like I'd treat a similar one at CNN, I'm doing what I'd do if I found out my favourite food critic was getting free pork chops on the side - find a new food critic. I seek out games journalists who offer perspectives on things that matter to me. And yes, that means I end up reading Polygon's reviews. If that makes me a SJW killing gaming, sue me. Other people can find their own reviewers that focus on topics that matter to them. But when I see people running around harassing people (not only journalists, but mostly journalists), not only for being involved in "#gamergate" but for daring to demonstrate even slightly feminist leanings in their reporting/posting, I get really bloody mad at gamers and it becomes incredibly hard to come into these discussions with good faith anymore. I want to read articles about cool games that do something new. Maybe make a social or political statement, or maybe just come up with gameplay concepts that haven't been seen before. But now anyone who wants to talk about the former needs to look over their shoulder because it very well could be the end of their career if a few high profile people on reddit/4chan/facepunch catch wind of it and decide to make them their next target. Remember that "journalists to avoid" thing circulating on 4chan? That's what I'm talking about. So yeah, thanks a lot. (Not you in particular, No_0ne)[/QUOTE] Believe me when I say I'm not really sure why Quinn is still relevant other than her poking her nose in as with the OP story. People laughed at the cheating, but that wasn't the reason for it, the incredibly close relationship with the journalists was, and people went after the journalists and continue to go after them. You're awfully pessimistic about journalism, especially when this whole incident has shown a number of smaller publications with integrity and some such as the Escapist taking note and writing new codes of conduct. The biggest thing people are doing right now is as you say, collectively telling people to find new sources by naming and shaming those who commit misconduct. You might think it pointless, but would you rather be told that your food critic was getting some pork on the side or live in ignorance of it? As for who they target, there is no undertone of harassing feminist writers or just women, the only thing that matters is if they can dig up some dirt on them such as them giving money to people they are writing about. There may be elements of it you can pick out as disliking, you can find one infographic amongst hundreds pointing out SJW journalists, but on the whole there are a lot of people of different views involved all working towards that goal of exposing misconduct, nepotism, or straight audience abuse over twitter. It's long stopped being partisan and is more between those defending the industry circlejerk and those against it.
all the quinn shit didn't matter to me, i started really getting invested into this after all the racketeering/fraud/whatever came out
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45922340] But when I see people running around harassing people (not only journalists, but mostly journalists), not only for being involved in "#gamergate" but for daring to demonstrate even slightly feminist leanings in their reporting/posting, I get really bloody mad at gamers and it becomes incredibly hard to come into these discussions with good faith anymore.[/QUOTE] Jim Sterling regularly discusses "social justice issues" in his articles and on his show. He has integrity as a journalist and doesn't shit on gamers for "lel caring about gamez" like so many of these journalists have been doing. He's generally well liked and theescapist is still a trusted source because of other people involved with that site allowing discussion and because of articles that at least try to show both sides of the story. [QUOTE=Zeke129;45922340] Remember that "journalists to avoid" thing circulating on 4chan? That's what I'm talking about. [/QUOTE] Avoid them because they're corrupt shills with no integrity, etc. [QUOTE=RichyZ;45922381]no zeke listen you're dumb and on the wrong side i dont get it why arent you agreeing with me yet[/QUOTE] If you look at the actually discussion going on you'll see well thought out paragraphs from both sides. This isn't constructive at all, threadshitting even.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45922197]I seriously hope the irony of facepunch complaining about reddit and 4chan stifling debate while simultaneously telling people that they can't post their views isn't lost on everyone here. That rod up the ass strikes again[/QUOTE] Except he's previously been warned about his behaviour in other threads. If a mod tells you to quit acting in a certain way, you quit acting like it or getting banned. The problem isn't the opinions and views that people post, it's HOW they put those opinion. Protip, shitposting is not a good way to put across your opinions. Also, notice how there's several topics on the whole thing here? Notice how they're not being hidden or deleted, although that other thread was closed because it started to veer off subject and these threads might be closed in order to not spam the forums with it all and keep it in one place. Yeah that's some real Nazi level stifling of debate...NOT. [quote]But when I see people running around harassing people (not only journalists, but mostly journalists), not only for being involved in "#gamergate" but for daring to demonstrate even slightly feminist leanings in their reporting/posting, I get really bloody mad at gamers and it becomes incredibly hard to come into these discussions with good faith anymore.[/quote] Both sides have equally vocal minorities pulling this shit, harassing people this does not represent either side as a whole. Seriously, go look it up and see some of the shit the anti gamer gate people have flung. Castt he first stone and all that. Oh, wait, what abuot the 10 or so websites all decryign that "gamers" are dead and then going on to say varying insults to anyone who would consider themselves a gamer.
[QUOTE=Eonart;45922220]I said that because you actually didn't look into any of what's going on. Perhaps the start of this whole controversy may have been about misogyny but iirc it started like this: 1) Ex comes out saying she's a cheat 2) People sympathize with him and start to look into Zoe 3) People find a rabbit hole deeper than her cooch, finding journalist corruption and so many connections that no one person can comprehend it now 4) People are now trying to disassemble the clique that contains all these connections 5) Zoe literally doesn't matter anymore unless she can be connected to anything else we find The only people who still care about her are shitposters and shills. [editline]8th September 2014[/editline] Also thanks for ignoring everything else I said. I at least had the decency to read your posts from the other thread and construct a rebuttal but instead you nitpick about what I start with. That sort of behavior is the problem with the anti gamergate side.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Zeke129;45922235]Yeah I've followed the start of this rather thoroughly because I had nothing better to do at the time. I legitimately believe that if a man had slept with a female journalist to promote his game the journalist would bear the brunt of the internet's anger and that quite a few people only participated in this argument because they wanted a woman to hate. I do not believe that this would have blown up as much as it did, or mattered as much as it did to so many people, had a woman not been involved. I'm not saying you feel this way, and I'm not saying that most people who disagree with me feel this way, but aside from a few people who either agree with me or are still sitting on the fence, I've been repeatedly denied a debate on this forum. I would very much have liked to have a good discussion with someone who disagrees with me but when most people on both sides think the other side is radical SJW/raging misogynist a debate is impossible. You're a prime example of this, having demonstrated hostility toward me from the very start in this thread. Did I insult you beforehand or something? Did I reciprocate the hostility? No, I didn't. So what's your deal?[/QUOTE] It wasn't that she is a woman (I think you're dead wrong about this Zeke and have been the whole time) and even the things Eonart mentioned are important but only part of the problem: Zoe crafted an entire PR campaign for herself, whipping the SJW community into a frenzy and weaponizing them to smash innocent people and stir up a lot of trouble, all to promote her game. And her story just gets worse and worse as time goes on. Remember, she has discussed many times at length subjects like "abuse" and "rape", and then by her own definitions abused and raped her boyfriend. But perhaps even more important than all of that was her using her connections and stirring up the "misogyny" excuse to stifle all discussion everywhere, including nearly every major gaming discussion board there is. But really all of that is irrelevant to the ongoing GamerGate discussion. No one cares about her anymore. She is purposely trying to stay relevant and it's just not enough to draw #GamerGate's attention. [QUOTE=Manibogi;45922191]I still think Craptasket's warning was going a bit too far. I know it's Max but the fact that he could be perma'd just for posting in a specific type of thread seems like too much imo.[/QUOTE] I would normally agree with you but Max seems to just go braindead whenever a topic even remotely related to feminism comes up. I've seen shitposters, I've seen racist mods, I've seen a lot of things, but only a tiny handful have attempted the mental gymnastics Max is getting famous for. I mean off the top I can only think of Sanius. [QUOTE=RichyZ;45922381]no zeke listen you're dumb and on the wrong side i dont get it why arent you agreeing with me yet[/QUOTE] Steller posting by RichyZ (as usual in these threads)
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;45922548]It wasn't that she is a woman[/QUOTE] Half of the journalists and developers targeted by gamergate have been white males, with the other half being white females. [QUOTE=FlakAttack;45922548] Steller posting by RichyZ (as usual in these threads)[/QUOTE] This is pain. His posts hurt to read.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45922566]Half of the journalists and developers targeted by gamergate have been white males, with the other half being white females.[/QUOTE] Yeah we're not hating enough black people wtf
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45922566]Half of the journalists and developers targeted by gamergate have been white males, with the other half being white females. [/QUOTE] Thus that would go to show that gender is irrelevent, they're not being targeted because of their gender, but because they're fucking connected to all of this pile of shit.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45922340]This is where the core of our disagreement comes from probably. It was never Quinn's job to hold journalists to their standards. She tried sleeping with people, and succeeded. Aside from the cheating (which doesn't have anything to do with games) that's where the moral issues on Quinn's part ends. It was those journalists who made the decision to ignore the standards they claimed to hold themselves to. But guess what? I don't really care about that either. [/QUOTE] I'd argue that Quinn, being a game developer, should be held to a higher standard of professionalism than a games journalist. They're all at fault, really. Also it's not the only thing Zoe's getting flak for, she's committed plenty of other bullshit too. [QUOTE=Zeke129;45922340] And that's why I'm against this whole #gamergate thing. Not out of some desire to protect Quinn, but because [i]gaming journalism doesn't matter[/i]. There's so much misplaced anger here it's comical. There will never be a Cronkite or a Woodward of the games industry. No gaming journalist will influence world politics, start or end a war, or topple governments. In the end, these people help us decide what $10-$60 thing we'll buy. They're basically food critics. Instead of treating this situation like I'd treat a similar one at CNN, I'm doing what I'd do if I found out my favourite food critic was getting free pork chops on the side - find a new food critic. I seek out games journalists who offer perspectives on things that matter to me. And yes, that means I end up reading Polygon's reviews. If that makes me a SJW killing gaming, sue me. Other people can find their own reviewers that focus on topics that matter to them. [/QUOTE] Games matter, an economic sector worth nearly a hundred billion dollars matters. Game journalism, being a subset of that, also matters (though not as much). Your food anology is nice but void when seemingly every game journalist on every major site is guilty of some breed of nepotism, bias, bribery or other shadiness because there is no enforced standard. Gamergate is a collective reaction from gamers to all the bullshit going on in the game industry and an attempt to build up that standard. It's all another growing pain of gaming culture, I feel. [QUOTE=Zeke129;45922340] But when I see people running around harassing people (not only journalists, but mostly journalists), not only for being involved in "#gamergate" but for daring to demonstrate even slightly feminist leanings in their reporting/posting, I get really bloody mad at gamers and it becomes incredibly hard to come into these discussions with good faith anymore. [/QUOTE] Yeah, people on the internet can be shitty sometimes, you're going to get at least some assholes on either side no matter the subject of debate. [QUOTE=Zeke129;45922340] I want to read articles about cool games that do something new. Maybe make a social or political statement, or maybe just come up with gameplay concepts that haven't been seen before. But now anyone who wants to talk about the former needs to look over their shoulder because it very well could be the end of their career if a few high profile people on reddit/4chan/facepunch catch wind of it and decide to make them their next target. Remember that "journalists to avoid" thing circulating on 4chan? That's what I'm talking about. [/QUOTE] Those journalists are on that list because of their involvement in the nepotistic cesspool, not because of what they write. Although what they do write is at times a result of said nepotistic cesspool. Also max was banned because he acted like a condescending ass repetitively and was too stupid to stop and debate like a normal person
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45922566]Half of the journalists and developers targeted by gamergate have been white males, with the other half being white females. This is pain. His posts hurt to read.[/QUOTE] I don't get why you guys take him so serious. I think he's pretty funny. This whole scenario reminds me of like high school. Actually not even that, try middle school. Only thing missing is some Linkin' Park and Guitar Hero 3.
It's fun how on one side you have the internet digging up a corruption, fraud and racket scandal, and on the other you have the people involved demeaning the sources of such claims while pushing 'gamer' as a demeaning stereotype, of an immature and woman-hating individual, and basing in that the source of such claims.. which is particularly ironic, coming from the ones that claim to be on the moral high ground who fight for the fair representation of people.
I know you a lot of you guys don't care about this, but how can Quinn call herself a feminist if she uses her body to get good reviews on her game? That's bullshit. Is she just using feminism just so she'll get support from a group of people or so that she can discredit anyone that goes against her by calling them misogynistic or what?
[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;45922837]I know you a lot of you guys don't care about this, but how can Quinn call herself a feminist if she uses her body to get good reviews on her game? That's bullshit. Is she just using feminism just so she'll get support from a group of people or so that she can discredit anyone that goes against her by calling them misogynistic or what?[/QUOTE] It's probably more about the community for her than anything else.
This gaming journalism corruption scheme looks real shitty. But that's none of my business.
I really wish people would stop associating burgers and fries with #gamergate they have nothing to do with each other, with the exception that burgers and fries inspired the start of #gamergate the only good thing about the association between the two is that you still get rabid sjw disagreeing and shitposting anything to do with #gamergate because they don't understand the difference
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;45923027]I really wish people would stop associating burgers and fries with #gamergate they have nothing to do with each other, with the exception that burgers and fries inspired the start of #gamergate the only good thing about the association between the two is that you still get rabid sjw disagreeing and shitposting anything to do with #gamergate because they don't understand the difference[/QUOTE] I fail to see how that's a good thing.
[QUOTE=Manibogi;45923077]I fail to see how that's a good thing.[/QUOTE] because it invalidates their own arguments against #gamergate automatically without anyone having to do anything
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