Mike Pence goes to see Hamilton, gets booed by the audience
145 replies, posted
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51398382]It's a terrible zinger because it's an implied threat of well... shooting.
They are REALLY not doing favours for themselves.[/QUOTE]
The Zinger is that the vice president Aaron Burr was in a Duel with Alexander Hamilton for 30 years of insults against Burr
Update: trump can't shut up about this
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/GGzgyBf.jpg[/IMG]
He has since deleted this tweet.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51398433]It can be used to mean an area meant to calm people down for whatever reason, that being stress, PTSD, etc. "Safe" meaning you can let your guard down for a bit and take a breath.[/QUOTE]
Assuming that's a normal use of the word that the right attack (although I'm not sure that's the case), how does it apply to the situation in question? Clearly Trump and anyone else criticising the political statement aren't saying that the theater should be a place where people with stress or PTSD can let their guard down.
Remember, my point from the beginning was that those who were calling out the right for wanting a "safe space" were misunderstanding or misrepresenting the situation.
As bad as Trump is the idea that America just elected a twitter drama queen president is pretty funny.
I wonder if someone on his team is going to have to step in and outright stop him shitposting once he becomes president, Or whether you lot really are going to see a president who whinges about anyone he dislikes or disagrees with on twitter for 4 whole years.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51398450]Update: trump can't shut up about this
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/GGzgyBf.jpg[/IMG]
He has since deleted this tweet.[/QUOTE]
hes such a child lmao
[QUOTE=sgman91;51398177]Not really in this context. It's fundamentally different. The idea is that hearing opposing ideas shouldn't be an emotional problem for you. You shouldn't need to go hide in a 'safe space' because people said things you don't like.[/QUOTE]
I mean if you're allowed to manipulate definitions why cant we ?
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51398527]I mean if you're allowed to manipulate definitions why cant we ?[/QUOTE]
How is that a manipulation of definitions? That's the actual idea of a safe space that people on the right attack. They mock those who need to go somewhere after hearing ideas they find so offensive that it overwhelms them. They mock those who want to make campuses 'safe' by banning all conservative speakers. Etc. It's about trying to hide from ideas. No one makes fun of veterans with PTSD who need an area to go to when their mental state overcomes them after a firework show.
[QUOTE]It's ironic because Trump (and old people in general I've noticed) uses strawman arguments to attack "safe spaces" and users of them while apparently expecting a space free from dissenting opinions for his VP[/QUOTE]
How does he want a safe space when Pence is actively going to a show made by people who disagree with him? Pence is putting himself in a situation where he's listening and watching a presentation from those people.
Are you saying that not wanting every public place in the nation to be a place where people are lectured on their political views is equivalent to wanting a place where you can ban everyone who speaks ideas that you don't like?
[QUOTE=Duck M.;51398489]hes such a child lmao[/QUOTE]
This is a man who flew off on a tangent over someone laughing about his small hands.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51398567]No, i'm saying Trump literally tweeted that the people should be ashamed for what they did, and what they did was give their dissenting opinion.
I have a little trouble understanding your last sentence[/QUOTE]
He didn't say they should be ashamed for giving their opinion. He said they should be ashamed for specifically lecturing Pence in a place that isn't intended for one sided political lectures. Trump never said they shouldn't be free to speak their ideas all they want. He didn't even say they shouldn't include politics in their play. He very specifically critiqued this one outburst.
Like I said from the beginning, the entire speech was just virtue signalling anyway. It was intended to get agreement from the audience, not sway anyone's opinion (At least I hope not, because only a real idiot would think a speech like that would change anyone's opinion on a subject.)
[editline]19th November 2016[/editline]
It's the difference between not wanting a professor to make political statements in their class room and not wanting a professor to speak at your college because you disagree with them.
One is about content and the other is about it being the right time and place.
[QUOTE=Govna;51398569]This is a man who flew off on a tangent over someone laughing about his small hands.[/QUOTE]
It never truly sinks in for me but this is the man that represents all americans on a global scale as the leader of the most powerful nation in the world. He has the nuclear launch codes. This immature reality TV show star holds one of the most esteemed, important, and powerful positions in the world. It's the definition of unbelievable in that the implications of Trump being President never truly sink in for me because my mind cant even start to comprehend it.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51398564]How is that a manipulation of definitions? That's the actual idea of a safe space that people on the right attack. They mock those who need to go somewhere after hearing ideas they find so offensive that it overwhelms them. They mock those who want to make campuses 'safe' by banning all conservative speakers. Etc. It's about trying to hide from ideas. No one makes fun of veterans with PTSD who need an area to go to when their mental state overcomes them after a firework show.[/QUOTE]
It's just a place where a bunch of people with something in common come to talk/interact in a calm environment. The right are attacking it by their insistence on straw-mans.
And guess what, humans form connections like those all the time, it's not inherently bad or a problem and your usage of language is pretty bad with its implications.
It's only tangentially related but you're also wrong about people not making fun of people with PTSD. I distinctly remember a news article of an archaeology class letting students skip certain days and offered trigger warnings which caused reddit to get up in a tizzy about all them fucking oversensitive babies, when the policy was intended specifically for veterans.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;51398593]It never truly sinks in for me but this is the man that represents all americans on a global scale as the leader of the most powerful nation in the world. He has the nuclear launch codes. This immature reality TV show star holds one of the most esteemed, important, and powerful positions in the world. It's the definition of unbelievable in that the implications of Trump being President never truly sink in for me because my mind cant even start to comprehend it.[/QUOTE]
Yep. And more than 60 million people voted for him, although at least we can take comfort in the knowledge that Clinton (in spite of being an establishment candidate who would've done nothing great for the country... was at least reasonable compared to him) received a million more votes than he did and won the national popular vote. Although I think a lot of that was just them, as Michael Moore said, wanting to "throw a molotov cocktail" into the system to burn it all down (the number of people who voted for Trump, I mean).
But yeah, basically that's what we're stuck with for the time being. Not to mention the cast of characters he's surrounded himself with lol. It's like Carlin said, it's a reflection of how pitiful we are as a people and a society: we put garbage in, and we get garbage out of it. And we never fucking learn.
Also wow, lots of posts on the_donald about boycotting this show
please do there hasn't ever been a time it wasn't sold out tbh
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51398635]Also wow, lots of posts on the_donald about boycotting this show
please do there hasn't ever been a time it wasn't sold out tbh[/QUOTE]
the only good thing the_donald has ever done
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51398606]It's just a place where a bunch of people with something in common come to talk/interact in a calm environment. The right are attacking it by their insistence on straw-mans.[/QUOTE]
I don't buy it. You don't need a specific place to "talk in a calm environment." Just walk away from the conversation and, congratulations, you've successfully reached a place where you can "talk/interact" in a calm environment.
Also, how does that explain the phenomena of making college campuses safe spaces by banning conservative speakers? Ben Shapiro just recently was banned from a college campus (DePaul University) because he was invited to speak at an event. He wasn't even allowed to attend the event. The directive was to arrest him if he showed up. You may strongly dislike Ben Shapiro, but he's not a firebrand. He was a part of Never Trump because he couldn't support Trump as a person.
You also have examples like the woman yelling down a professor at Yale for sending an email about not banning Halloween costumes that she found offensive ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0[/url]). She wants the campus to be a safe space. A space where no one is offended.
These are all examples of the 'safe space' mentality.
[QUOTE]It's only tangentially related but you're also wrong about people not making fun of people with PTSD. I distinctly remember a news article of an archaeology class letting students skip certain days and offered trigger warnings which caused reddit to get up in a tizzy about all them fucking oversensitive babies, when the policy was intended specifically for veterans.[/QUOTE]
You can find almost literally anything on Reddit. So sorry for not taking that very seriously. You find me an example of a person on the right with actual authority saying that veterans with PTSD shouldn't be able to leave class when they're having an attack and I'll eat my words.
I feel like this whole thing is a distraction from the actual terrible things Trump is up to lately, it seems like some really good timing for something wacky but overall harmless to happen to divert focus from actual shady shit they've been up to
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51398450]Update: trump can't shut up about this
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/GGzgyBf.jpg[/IMG]
He has since deleted this tweet.[/QUOTE]
im a little skeptical, because isn't the font on tweets a little bit more bold?
this one looks a little weird
[QUOTE=Judas;51398702]I feel like this whole thing is a distraction from the actual terrible things Trump is up to lately, it seems like some really good timing for something wacky but overall harmless to happen to divert focus from actual shady shit they've been up to[/QUOTE]
Not like people were paying attention beforehand
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51398450]Update: trump can't shut up about this
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/GGzgyBf.jpg[/IMG]
He has since deleted this tweet.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit ya'll elected a 12 year old for president.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51398119]The speech was preachy, [B]meaningless[/B], and virtue signaling, but it didn't go anywhere near "harassment."[/QUOTE]
i disagree, i don't think it was meaningless. the fact that they decided to address him properly gives the whole moment a more positive spin. booing addresses even less than a vague (probably thought up backstage) speech, and pence had already been singled out long before the cast addressed him, so wouldn't that be a much more meaningless note to to end it on? the real meaning of the speech isn't in how concisely it lays out their concerns, it's in showing that civil discourse can (and should) always be an option
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51398783]One college campus doesn't speak for the 1,800 other colleges
So many people are using generalizations with just 1 example and trying to apply that to everyone, it's so annoying. Bonus points if the example is a strawman.[/QUOTE]
Those were two examples of a greater phenomena. Here's a list of some more: [URL]http://www.businessinsider.com/list-of-disinvited-speakers-at-colleges-2016-7[/URL]
Universities in that list include Brown University, California State University of Los Angeles, Berkeley, University of Chicago, George Washington University, Trinity College, Hampshire College, University of Pennsylvania, San Francisco State University, Virginia Tech, and Williams College.
[editline]19th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51398818]i disagree, i don't think it was meaningless. the fact that they decided to address him properly gives the whole moment a more positive spin. booing addresses even less than a vague (probably thought up backstage) speech, and pence had already been singled out long before the cast addressed him, so wouldn't that be a much more meaningless note to to end it on? the real meaning of the speech isn't in how concisely it lays out their concerns, it's in showing that civil discourse can (and should) always be an option[/QUOTE]
It was meaningless because it didn't do anything beyond agree with the crowd's intentions when they were booing. It's cowardly to make political statements directed at a person in a situation where that person isn't able to respond. The cast could have very easily told the audience to stop booing without making it political.
This wasn't "civil discourse." Discourse requires a two way conversation.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51398855]It was meaningless because it didn't do anything beyond agree with the crowd's intentions. It's cowardly to make political statements directed at a person in a situation where that person isn't able to respond. The cast could have very easily told the audience to stop booing without making it political.[/QUOTE]
but i just told you one thing it does beyond agreeing with the crowd's intentions? is the shift in tone, from the contentless booing to politely addressing their concerns not noteworthy? can you not bring yourself to appreciate it on some level, just because they didn't water down their stance?
[editline]20th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=sgman91;51398855]This wasn't "civil discourse." Discourse requires a two way conversation.[/QUOTE]
the point is that it's more like civil discourse than the booing. it does a better job at encouraging people to talk things out
[QUOTE=sgman91;51398675]I don't buy it. You don't need a specific place to "talk in a calm environment." Just walk away from the conversation and, congratulations, you've successfully reached a place where you can "talk/interact" in a calm environment.
Also, how does that explain the phenomena of making college campuses safe spaces by banning conservative speakers? Ben Shapiro just recently was banned from a college campus (DePaul University) because he was invited to speak at an event. He wasn't even allowed to attend the event. The directive was to arrest him if he showed up. You may strongly dislike Ben Shapiro, but he's not a firebrand. He was a part of Never Trump because he couldn't support Trump as a person.
You also have examples like the woman yelling down a professor at Yale for sending an email about not banning Halloween costumes that she found offensive ([URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0[/URL]). She wants the campus to be a safe space. A space where no one is offended.
These are all examples of the 'safe space' mentality.
You can find almost literally anything on Reddit. So sorry for not taking that very seriously. You find me an example of a person on the right with actual authority saying that veterans with PTSD shouldn't be able to leave class when they're having an attack and I'll eat my words.[/QUOTE]
To call that a safe space mentality is like saying alcoholics anonymous is equivalent to the prohibition movement.
I'll happily tell those people to fuck off if I ever come across them. I haven't though and the news of it is pretty rare, there's thousands of schools, this only happens occasionally at a few.
Your mentioning of "Just walk away from the conversation" makes me think you still don't really understand it and think that they just want to force everywhere to be a place like that which is asinine. The hell is wrong with say, a bunch of LGBT getting together to talk about their experiences? We bloody do it all the time already, I'm sure you're part of internet communities pertinent to your interests and qualities. People go to church. Therapy groups. Etc..
[QUOTE=Judas;51398702]I feel like this whole thing is a distraction from the actual terrible things Trump is up to lately, it seems like some really good timing for something wacky but overall harmless to happen to divert focus from actual shady shit they've been up to[/QUOTE]
What, like the multi-million dollar settlement he just gave out for trump university ? :v:
[QUOTE=sgman91;51398574]He didn't say they should be ashamed for giving their opinion. He said they should be ashamed for specifically lecturing Pence in a place that isn't intended for one sided political lectures.[/QUOTE]
Where the fuck else is someone going to be able to lecture Pence? Should I e-mail my republican senator and tell him to tell Pence that I hate his political views? Should I send him a letter and hope he doesn't just toss it in the trash?
The only way to make sure he gets the message is to tell him firsthand.
[editline]20th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51398801]Holy shit ya'll elected a 12 year old for president.[/QUOTE]
I sure didn't.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51398855]
It was meaningless because it didn't do anything beyond agree with the crowd's intentions when they were booing. It's cowardly to make political statements directed at a person in a situation where that person isn't able to respond. The cast could have very easily told the audience to stop booing without making it political.
This wasn't "civil discourse." Discourse requires a two way conversation.[/QUOTE]
By your logic people shouldnt give speeches at protests or rallies because the audience already agrees with them. You're really grasping at straws to justify your statement .
[QUOTE=Turnips5;51395783]so's advocating conversion therapy lol[/QUOTE]
Hey, your logical fallacy for today is tu quoque. Thanks, and have a good evening.
[QUOTE=space1;51399857]Hey, your logical fallacy for today is tu quoque. Thanks, and have a good evening.[/QUOTE]
How is it hypocritical to boo a politician for their policies?
[QUOTE=space1;51399857]Hey, your logical fallacy for today is tu quoque. Thanks, and have a good evening.[/QUOTE]
I actually am struggling to agree or disagree if this is a fallacy.
[url]http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tu_quoque[/url]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque[/url]
[url]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque[/url]
Turnnip wasn't refering to Blizzard in the original claim...
but he did respond to criticism with criticism...
but you could argue that pointing out that Mike Pence is awful is a justification for the booing...
Mike Pence is the kinda guy I would suck a cock lovingly in front of just to watch him freak out like a mormon
Sort-of relevant snippet from an interaction I had on Facebook this morning regarding the incident in question.
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/th6toou84vznxyu/pence.png[/img]
Like where do you even start with these people? I'm not looking for validation here, I'm genuinely wondering.
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