Obama won’t apologize for Hiroshima nuclear bombings - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Killuah;50247939]I don't know how to explain it but maybe you should read some Hemmingway to understand how you can regret doing things even though you were in the right doing them.[/QUOTE] why would you regret doing the right thing? hesitate, sure, but regret? unless you believe it might not have been the right thing there's no reason for regrets.

You guys are literally arguing for an empty diplomatic gesture. That's all this would be.

[QUOTE=Killuah;50247905]Then what's so bad about apologizing? Blame is no use for anyone. An apology to ease the tensions and open up for future talks or even more cincere talks does.[/QUOTE] Yet that argument of further opening up diplomatic routes with Japan holds little to no merit considering the US and Japan are already very close and steong allies. If this was say the shooting down of the Airplane above Iran I could see that explanation being used to "diplomaticaly soothe tensions". But regardless that was a different story than dropping nuclear weapons that prevented a land invasion of Japan(that would have killed millions of people). IMO we made the right choice there, was it a rash choice? Perhaps, but at the time no other option was available for our government to commit without the prolonging of the war and killing millions of people.

i'd say helping to rebuild japan was a far greater apology than words ever could be

If he does, he'd be labeled an imperial Japanese sympathizer..

I think we're also forgetting that Japan [I][URL="http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-na-japan-hiroshima-apology-20160429-story.html"]does not want an apology[/URL].[/I]

[QUOTE=Riller;50247977]I think we're also forgetting that Japan [I][URL="http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-na-japan-hiroshima-apology-20160429-story.html"]does not want an apology[/URL].[/I][/QUOTE] [quote]It could set off a chain reaction of apologies Prime Minister Abe’s speech on the 70th anniversary of the end of World War II was a classic non-apology apology, and this administration allegedly hates to apologize. “Why doesn’t the Japanese government want Mr. Obama to apologize? Because it tears the scab off a much bigger wound that Japan wants healed,” says Grant Newsham, a senior research fellow with Japan Forum for Strategic Studies and former U.S. diplomat with over 20 years’ experience in Japan. “If Obama apologizes at Hiroshima, it draws attention to Japanese behavior elsewhere in Asia during the ’30s and ’40s. It might even be demanded that the Japanese government and emperor go to Singapore and apologize for slaughtering 25,000 Chinese there in 1942. Or to Australia to apologize for how they treated their POWs. Or to the Philippines (to apologize) for a few hundred thousand murders by the Imperial Japanese Army as well.”[/quote] Well that's something I didn't even think about.

How's this for a "gesture": Our trade stimulating their economy so much that their country had a completely historically unprecedented boom and us continuing to be allies A meaningless gesture shouldn't matter, especially when we were so justified in doing it.

[QUOTE=Killuah;50247983]Well that's something I didn't even think about.[/QUOTE] However, that point sort of does make me want Obama to apologize. Because Japan refuses to acknowledge their genocides in mainland Asia.

[QUOTE=Killuah;50247818]The rammifications and consequences are not. Their children are not. My grandfather is not. My family that got split and displaced is not.The political consequences are not.The arbitrary country borders created as a follow-up causing a lot of the problems we face today are not.It's even more of a reason to apologize. You apologize to the people who are hit by the rammifications because your ancestors can't anymore.[/QUOTE] I really don't get your point. Japan brought war upon Asia unprovoked, Japan brought war upon the US in an attempt to cripple its ability to contain and rebuff Japan's jingoistic expansions, and then Japan refused to agree to surrender even after they had clearly lost. If you want to blame states rather than individuals, then Japan should apologise to itself, because Japan is solely the reason Japan had two Atomic bombs dropped on it.

[QUOTE=Killuah;50247983]Well that's something I didn't even think about.[/QUOTE] "Please don't apologize for your justified measures against us, otherwise we look bad for not apologizing for our actual war crimes we downplay or try to ignore."

[QUOTE=Killuah;50247939]I don't know how to explain it but maybe you should read some Hemmingway to understand how you can regret doing things even though you were in the right doing them.[/QUOTE] But who's holding the regret?? It's not like the United States is a living entity that regrets the bombings. Obama didn't somehow inherit Truman's memories of ordering the bombing.

The word "sorry" has A LOT of implications in politics, it's a really heavy word that can't be used without a lot of consideration for it's implications. [QUOTE=Riller;50247977]I think we're also forgetting that Japan [I][URL="http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-na-japan-hiroshima-apology-20160429-story.html"]does not want an apology[/URL].[/I][/QUOTE] Yeah like this, "sorry" is a very big word in politics. It could even somewhat damage relations with Japan if the result would be forcing Japan to apologize for their war crimes.

Hey Japan sorry about doing that thing that ultimately saved lives on both sides of the conflict and prevented a prolonged bloody military occupation.

We already apologized to Japan long ago by sticking around and getting them back into shape.

I get that Obama represents the US so there is that but why now?

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;50248061]The word "sorry" has A LOT of implications in politics, it's a really heavy word that can't be used without a lot of consideration for it's implications. Yeah like this, "sorry" is a very big word in politics. It could even somewhat damage relations with Japan if the result would be forcing Japan to apologize for their war crimes.[/QUOTE] This and the danger of history revisionism(which the Japanese are doing right now) is what convinces me that it probably wouldn't be a good idea.

[QUOTE=Killuah;50248260]This and the danger of history revisionism(which the Japanese are doing right now) is what convinces me that it probably wouldn't be a good idea.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies"]Japan are the masters of historical revisionism[/URL]. [QUOTE]Reflecting Japanese tendency towards self-favoring historical revisionism, historian Stephen E. Ambrose noted that "[B]The Japanese presentation of the war to its children runs something like this: 'One day, for no reason we ever understood, the Americans started dropping atomic bombs on us[/B].'"[4][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=wystan;50247930]I find it hard to be convinced for the US to apologize for the bombings, yet to this day politicians in Japan deny the rampant war crimes committed by the Japanese military, it only seems as of late some of them admit it, did they apologize for Pearl Harbor, the Bataan Death March, the Rape of Nanking? At least Germany owned up to their crimes, and admittedly may have gone overboard with post-war guilt but that's another discussion.[/QUOTE] Can we please stop this post-war guilt nonsense coming from people who have no idea of what's going on inside of Germany? Like, no offense, but each time I have to read this shit it makes me want to vomit.

It was fucking 70 years ago who cares at this point [editline]3rd May 2016[/editline] Both sides did horrific shit just look past it ffs

I'm born in Nagasaki prefecture and I will say this, we moved on, just glean from what happened jeez it's not like apologizing would bring back whoever that died, plus America helped rebuild post-war. Just hope some stupid war doesn't break out and civillians don't lose their lives over pointless conflicts in the future. Nukes being used will suck though, never again.

I am quite confused when there are posts like Japan didn't apologize. They did. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan[/url] (I didn't kept tabs of all the articles I read in the past but I hope wiki articles with reasonable reference should suffice). It just not a very direct apology,formal apology, apology not "good enough" for China or the apology is too ambiguous like the speech made on the 70th anniversary of the end of World War II by Shinzo Abe. Unlike Germany, Japan current stance (based on the speech made by Abe) is more towards this [Quote]Japan’s prime minister, Shinzo Abe, has expressed “deepest remorse” and “sincere condolences” to Japan’s wartime victims, but risked angering the country’s neighbours by stopping short of issuing a fresh apology and by saying that future generations should not be “predestined” to apologise themselves. In a televised address a day before Japan marks 70 years since its defeat on 15 August 1945, Abe expressed “profound grief” for all who died in the second world war. History is harsh. What is done cannot be undone Shinzo Abe Abe, a conservative who had hinted he would not repeat previous official apologies, said that Japan had “repeatedly expressed the feelings of deep remorse and heartfelt apology for its actions during the war”. “In order to manifest such feelings through concrete actions,” he said, “we have engraved in our hearts the histories of suffering of the people in Asia as our neighbours.” But he added: “We must not let our children, grandchildren, and even further generations to come, who have nothing to do with the war, be predestined to apologise. Even so, we Japanese, across generations, must squarely face history. We have a responsibility to inherit the past, in all humbleness, and pass it on to the future.”[/Quote] [url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/14/shinzo-abe-japan-no-new-apology-second-world-war-anniversary-speech[/url] I am more concerned about the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre_denial]denialist[/url], [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Yasukuni_Shrine#War_criminals]hailing war criminals as heroes like the ones in Yasukuni Shrine[/url], lack of acknowledgement for certain war-crimes and [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies]their apparent historical revisionism[/url]. [url]http://japan.kantei.go.jp/97_abe/statement/201508/0814statement.html[/url] (the anniversary speech if you want to read it in full). Correct me if I am wrong cos I might be misunderstanding something.

My grandfather would have been in the first wave in the invasion of Japan, [I]as a medic[/I]. It's safe to say the atomic bombings not only saved my life, my dad's life and his life, but MILLIONS of other lives. A necessary evil for the greater good. Look at Japan today. If we fully invaded there would be no Japan left to rebuild. End of story.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50247709]I'm entirely willing to accept that nukes weren't absolutely necessary for ending the conflict in Japan. It was a complex situation, and there was a lot of room for nuance.[/QUOTE] Well you are technically correct, they weren't absolutely necessary, there was an alternative. But the alternative projected the deaths of half a million to four million Americans*, and several times higher for the Japanese. To put it into perspective, at the start of the War on Terror, we still had so many Purple Hearts originally manufactured for Operation Downfall, that we handed them out to unit commanders to issue them to wounded men in the field. *The reason for the varied number is war planners weren't sure if the civilian population would fight as they were told, so some estimates leave them out while others include them. [editline]3rd May 2016[/editline] If the civilian population had fought back, though, it would mean the deaths of a lot more civilians over a much larger area. Many of the prominant Japanese people we know and love today may have never had a chance to exist because their ancestors were killed trying to snipe Americans with an old musket.

Maybe when Japan stops denying warcrimes and actively writing it out of their history =-)

Why the nuclear bombings? The tokyo fire bombings were far, FAR worse

[QUOTE=kill3r;50249875]Why the nuclear bombings? The tokyo fire bombings were far, FAR worse[/QUOTE] Because those aren't taught as extensively. Nor does it carry the symbolic significance as the nuclear bomb does now primarily for the aforementioned reason.

[QUOTE=kill3r;50249875]Why the nuclear bombings? The tokyo fire bombings were far, FAR worse[/QUOTE] it's not a cool enough scapegoat because everyone was already bombing each others cities

Corruption of blood is a barbaric and outdated ideation. It's better to focus on the atrocities committed by people who are still alive today.

What would be the point? The idea of a direct apology is already ruled out, leaving this weird hollow "sorry that you were being stupid so we bombed your shit" apology, and I mean... just think about that. If someone shoots you in the stomach because you couldn't stop hitting them, then are you really going to expect an apology? What's he gonna say "well i'm sorry that i had to do that and that you got hurt because you're a child"? It'd be just further removing us away from responsibility [B]2:42[/b] [video=youtube;5jPUVMjMRus]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jPUVMjMRus[/video]