People think EA Threatens to ban for asking for refunds over SimCity- actually just getting autobann
107 replies, posted
[QUOTE=proch;39844946]I feel sorry for the guys working at customer support. It's really not their fault, yet the customers treat them like shit.[/QUOTE]
Customer support is often a pain in the arse. Yet there are some decent fellas around who actually treat you very respectfully. I can't blame the support in this case for being stressed out. Poor gals.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;39844933]Acting like a dick to CS is pretty lousy. You can tell he went into chat chat in order to get a screencap he could get upvoted on Reddit.[/QUOTE]
Yep, he's definitely a dick, but that doesn't change that EA is apparently denying people a refund because of their ToS, and that [I]is[/I] in fact illegal.
Not allowing a refund on EU soil ON DEMAND on digital goods within the first week is crazy illegal. I mean, even steam support when asked for a refund cites their policy of "no refunds", but when confronted with EU laws they abide and refund immediately.
EA is going to have a lawsuit on its hands.
I was talking about this with a couple of Law students and their tutor earlier.
In the UK we have a Consumer Protection law regarding Distance Selling which includes downloads and Internet sales/services. It allows the consumer 7 days to withdraw from the sale [B]for any reason[/B] and receive a full refund even if the consumer has used the product or service. If EA refuse a refund then the consumer is well within their rights to issue a chargeback. If EA respond by banning their Origin account then the consumer can sue EA for the total value of games contained in their Origin account and most likely win.
The right thing for EA to do when they receive a chargeback is remove Sim City from the list of games in the consumer's Origin Account, it's not hard because Steam do that with UK accounts (but then again they're not delusional and try to override consumer laws with bullshit policies)
[QUOTE=proch;39844946]I feel sorry for the guys working at customer support. It's really not their fault, yet the customers treat them like shit.[/QUOTE]
If i was customer support, and knew about this stuff, I would authorize refunds. All of them.
[QUOTE=areolop;39846175]If i was customer support, and knew about this stuff, I would authorize refunds. All of them.[/QUOTE]
And then promptly lose your job...
Which at that point you make a turbo massive stink about it.
[QUOTE=DrLuckyLuke;39844786]Still, many countries have a law that allows you to return any product you bought within 14 days of arrival and get a full refund (unless of course the product has been damaged). That means that if EA want to sell in those countries, everybody who demands a refund must get one.[/QUOTE]
Of course this is playing out digitally, and I guess what many people would do (which EA was trying to prevent) would be to play the game and send it back after the elapsed time, essentially playing any game for free.
It makes sense for them to do that, but I don't know what and how certain laws affect that
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;39846271]And then promptly lose your job...
Which at that point you make a turbo massive stink about it.[/QUOTE]
Lose a tech support job? Get another working at Subway or something. People will always hire cheap labor
[QUOTE=areolop;39846558]Lose a tech support job? Get another working at Subway or something. People will always hire cheap labor[/QUOTE]
be sure not to list EA as a previous employer then. straight up ignoring orders from higherups doesn't go well when brought up during an interview.
Well, if they're going to ban you for taking your money back (which they initially promised to do), you may as well just chargeback all of your origin purchases so you get all of your money back.
Or have an origin account for every game :v:
[QUOTE=DrLuckyLuke;39844786]Still, many countries have a law that allows you to return any product you bought within 14 days of arrival and get a full refund (unless of course the product has been damaged). That means that if EA want to sell in those countries, everybody who demands a refund must get one.[/QUOTE]
I think in these cases its best to contact the local subsidiary of the company, you would hope they understand local law better than some guy sitting in god knows where following a script for EA.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;39845362]Well valve does it, so it MUST be okay because valve is an awesome company :downs:
[/QUOTE]
That isn't the logic they are using at all.. They are simply pointing out that if you do a chargeback on any company they will get pissed off and treat you like shit. Its a major fraud warning marker.
[QUOTE=PacificV2;39845559]Not allowing a refund on EU soil ON DEMAND on digital goods within the first week is crazy illegal. I mean, even steam support when asked for a refund cites their policy of "no refunds", but when confronted with EU laws they abide and refund immediately.
EA is going to have a lawsuit on its hands.[/QUOTE]
I think this is one of the reasons they set up an office in Luxembourg a short while ago, to better deal with EU consumer law which seems to protect people a lot better than some other places.
[QUOTE=Derposaurus;39846275]Of course this is playing out digitally, and I guess what many people would do (which EA was trying to prevent) would be to play the game and send it back after the elapsed time, essentially playing any game for free.
It makes sense for them to do that, but I don't know what and how certain laws affect that[/QUOTE]
As someone above this says, in the UK at least it covers any sort of purchase including digital purchases.
EA ruined Spore by casualizing the fuck out of it, selling expansions at ridiculous prices and segregating the userbase.
They deliberately murdered Darkspore as well, a casual Diablo clone which I love for what it is. They sold it for 50€ while it's actually worth 20-30€, never lowered Steam price (after years it's still 50€), released one content patch and decided it wasn't selling well enough and stopped supporting it in any way, screwing over anyone who bought the game as the playerbase dwindled.
Not to mention that lovely plague of errors locking people out of the game that aren't going to be fixed.
[editline]editline[/editline]
It's very anoying to see the word "hate bandwagon" tossed around like the hate is unpredecented.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;39844933]Acting like a dick to CS is pretty lousy. You can tell he went into chat chat in order to get a screencap he could get upvoted on Reddit.[/QUOTE]
The point is still there. He was refused a refund [I]before[/I] threatening a chargeback. As Pacific stated, under EU laws, this is absolutely illegal. I can't speak about US' legal system, but I'm going to assume it's the same deal there.
In other words, EA is absolutely at fault and people have every right to be pissed.
I love all the recent shits about EA games. Some fuss justified, some (like this case) is not, or only partly justified (well, EA doesn't ban you if you ask for a refund, they will just politely propose you to fuck yourself).
But oh my god, the funniest part of it is that even after all this shit people complain everywhere about, they will still go and pre-order another game.
[QUOTE=gudman;39854010]I love all the recent shits about EA games. Some fuss justified, some (like this case) is not, or only partly justified (well, EA doesn't ban you if you ask for a refund, they will just politely propose you to fuck yourself).
But oh my god, the funniest part of it is that even after all this shit people complain everywhere about, they will still go and pre-order another game.[/QUOTE]
I never understood pre-ordering. Why would you possibly risk being fucked over only to you save $5 and get some ingame goodies which are usually absolute shit.
[QUOTE=farmatyr;39843758][SUP][URL="http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamer.no%2Fartikler%2F138184%2Fskandalos-lansering-av-simcity%2F"]Source[/URL][/SUP][/QUOTE]
He's being a bad customer and are just raging at temporary server issues. He accepted a contract that clearly says there are no online refunds. He knows that the servers will be fixed. The product is not defective, unless you make the claim that every server outage ever means a "defective product". Not only that, but he had a hostile attitude towards a simple costumer service rep who has no power over any of this.
[QUOTE=KorJax;39843532]Shitty fucking article
I hate that this is spreading around. I'm loathing EA right now because I spent $60 ($40 after the store credit I got for pre-ordering it, which is why I preordered vs waiting) for a game that I've not been able to comfortably play at all since release, but this is simply false shitty reporting that this is spreading around.
[B]EA does not ban for asking for refunds on SimCity. They ban you if you force a chargeback on your Origin account, and it's not something that happens with a push of the button, a chargeback causes automatic bans. [/B]AKA you SHOULD get a refund through EA and not through your CC company (chargeback) because that way you avoid the auto-ban.
AFAIK[B] other companies to the same exact thing.[/B] Steam for example last I heard bans your account if you chargeback on them as well. This is because chargebacks cost money and its an "easy" way to try an get free stuff.[/QUOTE]
"Steam[B] for example last I heard [/B]bans your account if you chargeback on them as well."
what is this high school? :v:
[QUOTE=J!NX;39854453]"Steam[B] for example last I heard [/B]bans your account if you chargeback on them as well."
what is this high school? :v:[/QUOTE]
I was gonna go check his profile and call you out for expecting top quality english from somebody who doesn't speak it as a first language but then it turned out he's american.
Any sane service will autoban you for chargebacks to prevent fraud. Not sure what the fuss about that is.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;39854430]He's being a bad customer and are just raging at temporary server issues. He accepted a contract that clearly says there are no online refunds. He knows that the servers will be fixed. The product is not defective, unless you make the claim that every server outage ever means a "defective product". Not only that, but he had a hostile attitude towards a simple costumer service rep who has no power over any of this.[/QUOTE]
That's not how laws work. Even if you agree with the TOS, you're still protected by the law. And the law states that you have a right to return a defective product.
[editline]9th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=itisjuly;39854536]Any sane service will autoban you for chargebacks to prevent fraud. Not sure what the fuss about that is.[/QUOTE]
Then read the thread?
I don't think you guys understand that chargebacks cost EA at least $20 on top of the money that is taken back.
Also the Customer Service reps you talk to do not have the ability to change things on your account, they need the authorization of a supervisor who have been most likely told not to authorize refunds at the time.
EA isn't a great company, but I doubt any other company will take a chargeback lightly or issue refunds instantly until they are given a chance to solve the issue within a reasonable amount of time.
People in the EU though, with consumer protection laws EA is going to get nailed.
[QUOTE=Bonzai11;39854622]I don't think you guys understand that chargebacks cost EA at least $20 on top of the money that is taken back.
Also the Customer Service reps you talk to do not have the ability to change things on your account, they need the authorization of a supervisor who have been most likely told not to authorize refunds at the time.
EA isn't a great company, but I doubt any other company will take a chargeback lightly or issue refunds instantly until they are given a chance to solve the issue within a reasonable amount of time.
People in the EU though, with consumer protection laws EA is going to get nailed.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that people are being refused [I]any[/I] refunds flat out.
[QUOTE=Stopper;39854565]That's not how laws work. Even if you agree with the TOS, you're still protected by the law. And the law states that you have a right to return a defective product.[/QUOTE]
But this is clearly not a defective product.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;39854430]He accepted a contract that clearly says there are no online refunds.[/QUOTE]
And thus that contract is void under EU consumer laws. What's so hard to grasp about that?
[QUOTE=Xploder;39845603]I was talking about this with a couple of Law students and their tutor earlier.
In the UK we have a Consumer Protection law regarding Distance Selling which includes downloads and Internet sales/services. It allows the consumer 7 days to withdraw from the sale [B]for any reason[/B] and receive a full refund even if the consumer has used the product or service. If EA refuse a refund then the consumer is well within their rights to issue a chargeback. If EA respond by banning their Origin account then the consumer can sue EA for the total value of games contained in their Origin account and most likely win.
The right thing for EA to do when they receive a chargeback is remove Sim City from the list of games in the consumer's Origin Account, it's not hard because Steam do that with UK accounts (but then again they're not delusional and try to override consumer laws with bullshit policies)[/QUOTE]
I think if people try to pursue that, they're only going to get fucked in the ass later on. If consumers win, it sets a really bad legal precedent for digital distribution. If customers can buy a game, beat it within 7 days and then get a full refund, nobody gets paid. So why bother making games if people won't pay you for it? And all digital distribution platforms would become a digital renting platform, which then everyone will begin crying how nobody owns games anymore.
Nobody wins.
[QUOTE=Stopper;39853785]The point is still there. He was refused a refund [I]before[/I] threatening a chargeback. As Pacific stated, under EU laws, this is absolutely illegal. I can't speak about US' legal system, but I'm going to assume it's the same deal there.
In other words, EA is absolutely at fault and people have every right to be pissed.[/QUOTE]
Yeah we don't have laws like that in the US lol
The amount of things you can return is next to nothing if it has a wrapper
Digital there is just no way
[QUOTE=Don Ochs;39854514]I was gonna go check his profile and call you out for expecting top quality english from somebody who doesn't speak it as a first language but then it turned out he's american.[/QUOTE]
I was more simply asking for a good reference than a rumor really
[editline]9th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=itisjuly;39854536]Any sane service will autoban you for chargebacks to prevent fraud. Not sure what the fuss about that is.[/QUOTE]
EA IS EVIL!!!
I hate EA but I know to not be a dick about it.
[QUOTE=Elfy;39844040]And this my friends, is why you don't pre order games.[/QUOTE]
it really is the dumbest idea ive ever heard of
oh no watch out theyll run out discs to make copies on better get your special comes with worthless shit edition while it lasts!
[QUOTE=King Tiger;39854430]He's being a bad customer and are just raging at temporary server issues. He accepted a contract that clearly says there are no online refunds. He knows that the servers will be fixed. The product is not defective, unless you make the claim that every server outage ever means a "defective product". Not only that, but he had a hostile attitude towards a simple costumer service rep who has no power over any of this.[/QUOTE]
TOS and EULA is not a contract. Pressing "I agree" is not the same as signing a contract.
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