• Israel is at it again - Israel intercepts supply ships
    71 replies, posted
[QUOTE=CheeseMan;33134062]It's literally just a bloody release tag, are you insane [/QUOTE] The release tag looks [B]really[/B] bad on smaller monitors, if I read threads on my laptop (1024*768) its all squashed and hard to read. Two videos of the incident. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOk8xUUDxyI&feature=player_embedded[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaV0xnYcOSY&feature=player_embedded[/media]
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;33134019]article formatted like that is atrocious on sgs2 resolution and browser tbh i generally don't like this fancy formats at all[/QUOTE] Fixed
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33133248]Which explains why such things have been barred at one point in the duration of the blockade, or are still barred. - A4 paper - Crayons - Stationary - 3900 types of medical supplies - cement, glass, lumber, asphalt, steel and various other construction equipment (heavily restricted) - Chocolate, dry food and ginger were banned at one point - Fishing supplies (ropes and the like) - Hearing aid batteries and wheelchairs have been barred. Sure seems like that those are "terror supplies". I can have a fucking amazing terror party with some wheelchairs, a crayon or two, some medicine and chocolate. Hmm?[/QUOTE] Where in the article or anywhere did Israel claim or anyone else that those supplies were taken away from them? Sure, they board ships. Who said we're taking the supplies? I can surely tell you we do not. For the sake of argument, my source of information is not only closer, but I was in the army as supporting force for the commando. I know what they try to do and how they try to do it better than most, if not everyone here. [editline]5th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Miskav;33133275]I like how you're closer to the actual incident yet have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.[/QUOTE] It's funny how you can negate the information one has on the basis of absolutely nothing. Your information comes from the media. What makes you so smart over me or in fact people claiming otherwise than what this article is trying to emit? [editline]5th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Caesar;33133398]This is a legal blockade recognised by the UN. There's no need for either ships' Governments (Canadian and Irish) to intervene, as those ships entered a UN-recognised blockade. These flotillas are just publicity stunts, and to be honest, stunts like this really detract from the cause that they are trying to support. The money that was used in these voyages could've been used to actually send supplies to Gaza on land (which is the easiest way).[/QUOTE] Finally. Thank you.
[QUOTE=Seith;33134308]Where in the article or anywhere did Israel claim or anyone else that those supplies were taken away from them? Sure, they board ships. Who said we're taking the supplies? I can surely tell you we do not. For the sake of argument, my source of information is not only closer, but I was in the army as supporting force for the commando. I know what they try to do and how they try to do it better than most, if not everyone here. [editline]5th November 2011[/editline] It's funny how you can negate the information one has on the basis of absolutely nothing. Your information comes from the media. What makes you so smart over me or in fact people claiming otherwise than what this article is trying to emit? [editline]5th November 2011[/editline] Finally. Thank you.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/amira-hass-israel-bans-books-music-and-clothes-from-entering-gaza-1.276147[/url] Note that the site is an Israeli news outlet, so don't you DARE cry to me about unobjectivity or biasedness.
[QUOTE=Seith;33134308]Where in the article or anywhere did Israel claim or anyone else that those supplies were taken away from them? Sure, they board ships. Who said we're taking the supplies? I can surely tell you we do not. [/QUOTE] The UN. [url]http://www.un.org/ga/president/63/news/GazaReport.pdf[/url] [url]http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_the_humanitarian_monitor_2010_04_english.pdf[/url]
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;33133853]you're forgetting they also came by boats in which the video recorded shots being fired before they boarded pretty sure when you go against a country with a reputation for being dicks and hearing shots, you might want to defend yourself.[/QUOTE] There's a difference between self-defence and actually utilizing ak-47's, shooting soldiers and hitting them with axes against the head and breaking knee caps to two soldiers. I saw the videos, seen the troopers that got hurt, trust me, that's not self-d.
On top of the fact that your evidence is entirely anecdotal when I've managed to quote two news agencies, and the guy above me has posted two articles, one from the U.N. and another from a licensed M.D, you're looking to be the person in the wrong here, mate. If you can actually provide any tangible proof that anything you're saying is true apart from [I]"I've seen things ya' wouldn't believe on the front lines, kid... Back in vietnam..."[/I] then that'd be great
[QUOTE=Caesar;33133398]This is a legal blockade recognised by the UN. There's no need for either ships' Governments (Canadian and Irish) to intervene, as those ships entered a UN-recognised blockade. These flotillas are just publicity stunts, and to be honest, stunts like this really detract from the cause that they are trying to support. The money that was used in these voyages could've been used to actually send supplies to Gaza on land (which is the easiest way).[/QUOTE] You clearly lack the slightest clue on the whole aid crisis if you think "they could've just sent it by land" Israel imposes collective punishment on Gaza banning the most essential aid materials into Gaza. By "sending it by land" it must be go through Israel which will be subsequently filtered and only allowing the bare minimum into Gaza. It's not a matter of 'security', of course that wont Israeli apologists from trying to justify this under the guise of it. It's collective punishment. The blockade was not declared legal, despite the article above erroneously trying to imply that. [QUOTE=Caesar;33133488]Also, Egypt has a very similar blockade on their border with Gaza, and nobody cares about that. Just food for thought.[/QUOTE]Of course. The previous dictatorship was very pro-Israeli and propped a blockade just as bad. However, with the revolution, the [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13581141"]blockade has been eased significantly[/URL] and hopefully will continue to do so in the near future when elections begin. [QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;33133616] Hell, I remember the first time they intercepted one of these ships. All they did was fast rope onto it from a helicopter to inspect the cargo and the crew immediately began to beat and attack them with bars and tools and pipes, even caught on video and everything and Facepunch still thought Israel was in the wrong even though the Commandos had excellent trigger discipline and nothing was done wrong.[/quote] The IDF fired live rounds from the helicopter, prior to boarding. Wikipedia: "The UNHRC report on the incident concluded that the [B]Israeli soldiers were firing live rounds from the helicopter before they landed anyone on the ship[/B].[67] Al Jazeera reporter Jamal Elshayyal, who was on the ship, stated that he saw one man shot in the head and others wounded by live fire.[68] Other passengers reported gunfire, blue flares and deafening noise from the first helicopter at this time.[69][70] Robert Mackey of The New York Times suggested that the passengers on the ship may have mistaken the flash grenades and paintball guns for deadly weapons, which enraged them.[71] Activists and crew members used gas masks.[text 6]" [quote]I mean, since when does a country not have a right to inspect a ship about to enter it's territorial waters if they have probable cause?[/QUOTE]They were intercepted in international waters and their destination was not Israel's territorial waters, but Gaza. Furthermore, UN resolution A/RES/3005/(XXVII) states, that all resources (so also the sea) and natural wealth falls under the control of residents of Gaza.
[QUOTE=CheeseMan;33134341][url]http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/amira-hass-israel-bans-books-music-and-clothes-from-entering-gaza-1.276147[/url] Note that the site is an Israeli news outlet, so don't you DARE cry to me about unobjectivity or biasedness.[/QUOTE] That article is from 2009. If I recall correctly, that was the time where the 2nd Lebanon war started. I think it was a mean of negtating attacks from Gaza, as they tend to take advantages of situations like these. Hamas isn't deployed specifically there, so it might make sense. I'm merely speculating now. Israel doesn't have any malicious intentions against Gaza, so trying to go black and white on this matter and finding who the "true" culprit for this ongoing war between Israel-gaza is just useless.
[QUOTE=Seith;33134362]There's a difference between self-defence and actually utilizing ak-47's, shooting soldiers and hitting them with axes against the head and breaking knee caps to two soldiers. I saw the videos, seen the troopers that got hurt, trust me, that's not self-d.[/QUOTE] now you're saying they used AK47's and fired first? evidence pls! also [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11393836[/url] and i am also ex-green beret commando and now in charge of CIA, and I say Israel opened fire on kids & puppies, i saw the videos, seen the kids & puppies that got hurt, trust me, that's not self-d.
[QUOTE=Seith;33134455]That article is from 2009. If I recall correctly, that was the time where the 2nd Lebanon war started. I think it was a mean of negtating attacks from Gaza, as they tend to take advantages of situations like these. Hamas isn't deployed specifically there, so it might make sense.[/QUOTE]The Lebanon war took place in 2006.
[QUOTE=CheeseMan;33134404]On top of the fact that your evidence is entirely anecdotal when I've managed to quote two news agencies, and the guy above me has posted two articles, one from the U.N. and another from a licensed M.D, you're looking to be the person in the wrong here, mate. If you can actually provide any tangible proof that anything you're saying is true apart from [I]"I've seen things ya' wouldn't believe on the front lines, kid... Back in vietnam..."[/I] then that'd be great[/QUOTE] Why would I? I'm not trying to prove anything, but give you my point of view. A man such in yourself so entangled in "israel is bad, fuck them" wouldn't change his mind even if I gave him truth. This is useless and wasn't my aim. I'm giving you my opinions and my "anecdotal" information. [editline]5th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Starpluck;33134483]The Lebanon war took place in 2006.[/QUOTE] Times goes by fast. Still 2009 is not 2011.
[QUOTE=Seith;33134455] Israel doesn't have any malicious intentions against Gaza, so trying to go black and white on this matter and finding who the "true" culprit for this ongoing war between Israel-gaza is just useless.[/QUOTE] My articles were referring to things not allowed through the blockade back in their times, which is what I stated in my post. Also, no malicious intentions? [quote=Kevin M Cahill M.D.]My professional career in international health and humanitarian relief has, over the last 50 years, taken me to numerous conflict zones. I have often known the danger of being caught behind the lines in civil wars, and have shared in the pain and squalor that is the constant fate of those who survive. These experiences have provided a perspective on life – and on man’s inhumanity to man – that has been largely fashioned in the crucible of refugee camps. Seeing Gaza in February 2009, shortly after the Israeli invasion, reminded me of Dore’s l9th century engravings of hell for Dante’s Inferno. The level of destruction conjured up images of Dresden or Hiroshima at the end of World War II. There were areas in the northern Gaza Strip where not a single structure was standing. An Amnesty International report has deemed this “wanton destruction” of civilian buildings on such a massive scale as constituting “war crimes.” [B] Military controls are imposed with a grinding force and overt disdain that is clearly intended to crush the human dignity of a still proud people. The daily humiliations - at border crossings, during constant incursions by soldiers working under ever-changing rules and mandates, the herding of people, like cattle, into barbed wire waiting pens, are all a consistent and pervasive pattern of the occupation[/B][/quote] You've got a [b]veteran[/b] of 50 years as an aid worker calling the initial invasion "devastating". I'd quote the bits after this, but the whole article is important enough to quote, so I'll relink it again. [url]http://www.un.org/ga/president/63/news/GazaReport.pdf[/url]
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33132917]Is it just me, or is the article really trying to be pro-Israel? It's continually trying to justify itself, and to point out that the activists are acting against 2 countries laws.[/QUOTE]It is, this part is the biggest indicator: [release]that is in place in accordance with international law[/release] That is matter purely of opinion, no legal/judicial branch of the UN (including the ICJ) have ruled on the blockade's legality.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;33134470]now you're saying they used AK47's and fired first? evidence pls! also [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11393836[/url] and i am also ex-green beret commando and now in charge of CIA, and I say Israel opened fire on kids & puppies, i saw the videos, seen the kids & puppies that got hurt, trust me, that's not self-d.[/QUOTE] Wouldn't know, nor would I care. I'm not trying to win an argument here. For all I care, you can be right. If you saw the videos, all of them, you would know you can't see puppies... [editline]5th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Terminutter;33134525]My articles were referring to things not allowed through the blockade back in their times, which is what I stated in my post. Also, no malicious intentions? You've got a [b]veteran[/b] of 50 years as an aid worker calling the initial invasion "devastating". I'd quote the bits after this, but the whole article is important enough to quote, so I'll relink it again. [url]http://www.un.org/ga/president/63/news/GazaReport.pdf[/url][/QUOTE] You're trying to prove the opposite of what I'm saying. I really don't care, as I said earlier, if you do. As far as online information you guys are probably more aware politically of what's going on than me. I give you my opinions and a very limited source of information I have gathered from earlier years in the army, news and here n' there catching ups with the news. as a part of this country, I highly doubt Israel has malicious intents and I could give examples of a lot of stories from Iraq where American soldiers shot animals, kids or whatever. This is war and on going disputes. It's ought to happen whether this is a country with malicious intents or not. Stop taking sides and look at the whole situation.
Fuck Israel! oh, wait....
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;33133508]You should know by know that Facepunch is anti-semitic and hates Israel. [/QUOTE] Learn to distinguish between antisemitism and critique of Israeli policy. [QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;33133751]Case and point. Just blind anger, rage and [B]hatred toward an entire country of people.[/B] Purely because someone on the military ladder issued an order to search an 'aid' ship that was not responding to radio and acting suspiciously. The boarding action which ended without incident.[/QUOTE] Learn to distinguish that as well, no one expressed hate at a group of people.
To the Israelis, do most of the people hate the government?
I don't care about the government, no feelings. they do whatever and i just live my life hoping it would go on without further wars. captive soldiers. and all this crap between Jews and Muslims. Religion sucks . neither of them wouldn't give up or back down. so it isnt 'bout the government. its absolutely about nothing. they want the country now, and if Israle will agree or the UN , everybody would see who's the bad dudes, but so even than nobody will agree that the bad guys are the arabs around israel.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;33133508]You should know by know that Facepunch is anti-semitic and hates Israel. [/QUOTE] Palestinians are the descendants of the Abrahamic tribe known as the Semites. Therefore Israel is the real anti-Semite here. lololol I wasn't joking, by the way, Seith.
I can't represent every thought of every Israeli in this country. Same as everywhere If I dare guess. Some do, some don't.
[QUOTE=Sickle;33134870]Palestinians are the descendants of the Abrahamic tribe known as the Semites. Therefore Israel is the real anti-Semite here. lololol[/QUOTE] Ha-ha! Semite means "Jewish" since I just said it does... And that means you hate ALL the Jews. That means that you should stop arguing or you'll look like a RACIST.
[QUOTE=Seith;33133070]So boarding ships that claim to be "friendly" and "bring supplies" is outrageous for Israel to do because no ships ever in the history of mankind brought anything BUT supplies? It's Israel's privilege to board ships in order to stop terror supplies coming in to Gaza. Media is not on our side and I can sure as hell tell you that on the HHH ship Israel sustained very heavy injuries due to the soldiers going in with paintball guns. Seriously fuck you, since when does the media represent objectively on anything? It's a game of rating and what's more outrageous to be shown on T.V.[/QUOTE] The US government has it's dick up your ass so you can do anything you like no matter what the media says. Doesn't mean that it is right.
I'm talking about the policy, not the support that is being given to us. stop being a child [editline]5th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Sickle;33134870]Palestinians are the descendants of the Abrahamic tribe known as the Semites. Therefore Israel is the real anti-Semite here. lololol I wasn't joking, by the way, Seith.[/QUOTE] I'd dare say Palestinians aren't too keen on living with us either, so it goes both ways.
[QUOTE=Seith;33135138]I'm talking about the policy, not the support that is being given to us. stop being a child [editline]5th November 2011[/editline] I'd dare say Palestinians aren't to keen on living with us either, so it goes both ways.[/QUOTE] Yeah I think there's a reason for that. [img]http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/7748/israelstealingpalestinexw9.jpg[/img] [editline]5th November 2011[/editline] As you can see, Israel in a real pickle.
I like how people scream "ANTI SEMITIC AND RIGHT WING EXTREMIST" whenever you say something against Israel. Are you also going to say that 3rd Reich killed 6 million jews and used gas chambers against the majority of those 6 million?
[QUOTE=Starpluck;33134528]It is, this part is the biggest indicator: [release]that is in place in accordance with international law[/release] That is matter purely of opinion, no legal/judicial branch of the UN (including the ICJ) have ruled on the blockade's legality.[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14757623]A UN report declared it legal[/url] And just because you're trying to make me sound dumb, what I said is still correct: [quote]"The money that was used in these voyages could've been used to actually send supplies to Gaza on land (which is the easiest way)."[/quote] Israel does allow some goods and medicines in, and the money they wasted on this flotilla could've been used to send actual supplies into the Gaza strip.
[QUOTE=Sickle;33135233]Yeah I think there's a reason for that. [img]http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/7748/israelstealingpalestinexw9.jpg[/img] [editline]5th November 2011[/editline] As you can see, Israel in a real pickle.[/QUOTE] Although it was named "Palestine" before the partition plan, it was under the control of Britain, which means it wasn't really Jewish nor Palestinian: that's one. Two, the partition plan was denied by both the Arab League and some of the Palestinians in Israel, this is pretty much why there was such a big loss in land. I just wanted to make that clear, because honestly, that image you attached presents it in a much more biased way
[QUOTE=Caesar;33136279][url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14757623]A UN report declared it legal[/url] And just because you're trying to make me sound dumb, what I said is still correct: Israel does allow some goods and medicines in, and the money they wasted on this flotilla could've been used to send actual supplies into the Gaza strip.[/QUOTE] Sure some medical supplies are allowed in, but a great many of the useful ones are blocked. Then factor in that what they really need in aid is construction materials, which are banned, except for certain buildings. (read: illegal settlements) Also, they need food, which is heavily restricted. Basically, if you want supplies in overland, be prepared to have nearly everything deemed to not be aid.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33136345]Sure some medical supplies are allowed in, but a great many of the useful ones are blocked. Then factor in that what they really need in aid is construction materials, which are banned, except for certain buildings. (read: illegal settlements) Also, they need food, which is heavily restricted. Basically, if you want supplies in overland, be prepared to have nearly everything deemed to not be aid.[/QUOTE] Of course I realise all of that. It's not that I'm saying they can send them anything they want over land but the point is that these guys [b]knew[/b] they would be stopped and not be allowed to enter those waters. Thus, they knew that their supplies would not reach Gaza. And so if they were trying to actually send help to the Palestinians, they should've sent what they could over land. Personally, I think these flotillas are mainly publicity stunts. I don't know much about the Canadian ship, but the Irish ship is carrying two politicians and a local celebrity. Sailing to Gaza with "aid" would be a great way to gather up some votes, wouldn't it? Apart from that, it's also an effective way to renew public interest on Palestine.
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