[QUOTE=Ridge;29208877]Dude, do some research before panning it.
It's like a 30% sales tax that replaces income tax. The more you buy, the more you pay.[/QUOTE]
that doesn't answer my question
how do you plan to sustain social programs that way? and doesn't this discourage people from buying things, which could seize up the economy in an awful way?
[QUOTE=Ridge;29208877]Dude, do some research before panning it.
It's like a 30% sales tax that replaces income tax. The more you buy, the more you pay.[/QUOTE]
Oh man just besides the arguments pain brought up that would [I]never[/I] be accepted by the populace. Do you know how pissy people get with even a 50% sales tax increase?
[QUOTE=thisispain;29208920]that doesn't answer my question
how do you plan to sustain social programs that way? and doesn't this discourage people from buying things, which could seize up the economy in an awful way?[/QUOTE]
Rich guy buys a million dollar boat, he then pays $300,000 in sales tax on it.
Poor family buys some bread and milk on food stamps, then pays $0 in tax.
And besides, the government is working hard to seize up the economy by refusing to provide relief from these high oil prices caused by this illegal war. The high oil prices making transporting goods more expensive, which raises the price on the shelf.
[editline]15th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;29208960]Oh man just besides the arguments pain brought up that would [I]never[/I] be accepted by the populace. Do you know how pissy people get with even a 50% sales tax increase?[/QUOTE]
AND NO INCOME TAX
[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;29208960]Oh man just besides the arguments pain brought up that would [I]never[/I] be accepted by the populace. Do you know how pissy people get with even a 50% sales tax increase?[/QUOTE]
don't worry, i remember some fuzzy math about how prices wouldn't go up because it would replace some embedded taxes or some shit
[QUOTE=Ridge;29208961]Rich guy buys a million dollar boat, he then pays $300,000 in sales tax on it.
Poor family buys some bread and milk on food stamps, then pays $0 in tax.
And besides, the government is working hard to seize up the economy by refusing to provide relief from these high oil prices caused by this illegal war. The high oil prices making transporting goods more expensive, which raises the price on the shelf.
[/QUOTE]
you still didn't answer any of my questions because you pretty much don't really know
it's one of those ridiculous ideas without logic or thought put into it
WE SHOULD GO TO FUCKING MARS DUDE BUILD A FUCKING SPACESHIP
[QUOTE=Ridge;29208961]Rich guy buys a million dollar boat, he then pays $300,000 in sales tax on it.
Poor family buys some bread and milk on food stamps, then pays $0 in tax.
And besides, the government is working hard to seize up the economy by refusing to provide relief from these high oil prices caused by this illegal war. The high oil prices making transporting goods more expensive, which raises the price on the shelf.
[editline]15th April 2011[/editline]
AND NO INCOME TAX[/QUOTE]
Doesn't matter, people would still be outraged. And what's going on right now isn't relevant to your argument, it would still dissuade people from purchasing consumer goods.
[QUOTE=Ridge;29208877]Dude, do some research before panning it.
It's like a 30% sales tax that replaces income tax. The more you buy, the more you pay.[/QUOTE]
OR:
Because some people horde their money away for years in banks, we could just do an INCOME tax, so we can ASSURE that that money is recycled appropriately.
[QUOTE=thisispain;29209003]you still didn't answer any of my questions because you pretty much don't really know
it's one of those ridiculous ideas without logic or thought put into it
WE SHOULD GO TO FUCKING MARS DUDE BUILD A FUCKING SPACESHIP[/QUOTE]
I pointed out right off the bat that the people spending more money on stuff would generate more tax revenue than they normally would. That balances it out. Especially since they tend to keep their money in foreign bank accounts and not mention it on their taxes otherwise.
[editline]15th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jiyoon;29209041]OR:
Because some people horde their money away for years in banks, we could just do an INCOME tax, so we can ASSURE that that money is recycled appropriately.[/QUOTE]
How does where it's kept make any difference? The money is going to sit in the bank regardless.
[QUOTE=Ridge;29209043]I pointed out right off the bat that the people spending more money on stuff would generate more tax revenue than they normally would. That balances it out. Especially since they tend to keep their money in foreign bank accounts and not mention it on their taxes otherwise.
[editline]15th April 2011[/editline]
How does where it's kept make any difference? The money is going to sit in the bank regardless.[/QUOTE]
you haven't even proven tax revenue would be increased
[QUOTE=Ridge;29209043]I pointed out right off the bat that the people spending more money on stuff would generate more tax revenue than they normally would. That balances it out. Especially since they tend to keep their money in foreign bank accounts and not mention it on their taxes otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Not really because this would affect the lower/middle class more likely leading them to buy less luxury items due to how expensive they would be, while the upper class could just do shit like import stuff and buy out of country to avoid the tax like they already do with income tax as you just mentioned. We need to reform the system, not replace it with an equally broken thing.
[QUOTE=Ridge;29209043]I pointed out right off the bat that the people spending more money on stuff would generate more tax revenue than they normally would. That balances it out. [/QUOTE]
how does that balance out?
please don't tell me your work is involved with money, because that's an atrocious method.
this is exactly why americans can't balance their own bloody budget
[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;29209088]Not really because this would affect the lower/middle class more likely leading them to buy less luxury items due to how expensive they would be, while the upper class could just do shit like import stuff and buy out of country to avoid the tax like they already do with income tax as you just mentioned. We need to reform the system, not replace it with an equally broken thing.[/QUOTE]
When they import it, they have to declare it. Hit them with the taxes then?
[editline]15th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;29209090]how does that balance out?
please don't tell me your work is involved with money, because that's an atrocious method.
this is exactly why americans can't balance their own bloody budget[/QUOTE]
I balance my budget just fine. Most Americans do. It's the politicians that can't.
Representative Linda Sanchez of California says she lives paycheck to paycheck on $174,000 annual salary.
[url]http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0411/Rep_Sanchez_I_cant_give_up_my_paycheck.html[/url]
plus that still doesn't fucking change anything. the poor would still be much less inclined to buy things as they now lack the money to pay for the extra taxes while a richer person could still pay the taxes.
the point of proper taxation distribution isn't to fuck people off on their money, the point of it is to balance the burden based on how much people earn.
lower class people use the social services more which leads to less crime and an alleviation of money problems which leads to more spending power that they can use on the stuff upper class people sell. a fair tax system just fucks the whole thing up
Most of the proposed flat tax bills in the US leave poor families exempt from having to pay the tax, so I'm not sure how people can argue that it would do terrible things to the lower class when it doesn't affect them. A current proposal leaves single people with an income of $25,000 a year exempt, and $30,000 for families (increasing with family size). To put this into perspective, the average annual income of the poor is around $10,000. The upper bounds of what is considered poor for singles doesn't really reach $25,000. There are other proposals that up that that number to $35,000 or more.
[QUOTE=thisispain;29209142]the point of proper taxation distribution isn't to fuck people off on their money[/QUOTE]
prove it
[QUOTE=Ridge;29209109]Most Americans do.[/QUOTE]
no they don't, that's why there was a foreclosure crisis. people tend to live far out of their means in the united states which leads to a lot of fucked up problems.
sweden, luxemburg, and norway has far more spending power per citizen yet which nation is commonly referred to as the gluttonous one?
[QUOTE=Pepin;29209144]Most of the proposed flat tax bills in the US leave poor families exempt from having to pay the tax, so I'm not sure how people can argue that it would do terrible things to the lower class when it doesn't affect them. A current proposal leaves single people with an income of $25,000 a year exempt, and $30,000 for families (increasing with family size). To put this into perspective, the average annual income of the poor is around $10,000. The upper bounds of what is considered poor for singles doesn't really reach $25,000. There are other proposals that up that that number to $35,000 or more.[/QUOTE]
A is B but B is not always A. Poor people are all lower class but not all lower class people are poor, thus it would still affect people with less money, and not affect people with more money enough.
[QUOTE=Ridge;29209043]How does where it's kept make any difference? The money is going to sit in the bank regardless.[/QUOTE]
Put it directly in the bank = no income tax, no tax.
If there is an income tax, it gets taxed no matter what.
[QUOTE=Ridge;29209155]prove it[/QUOTE]
i'm sorry i thought we were operating on a sane parameter.
[QUOTE=Jiyoon;29209185]Put it directly in the bank = no income tax, no tax.
If there is an income tax, it gets taxed no matter what.[/QUOTE]
And the same dollar gets taxed every year as accumulated wealth. It's unfair. You pay a tax to get your money, you pay a tax to keep it, and you pay a tax to spend it.
[QUOTE=Pepin;29209144]Most of the proposed flat tax bills in the US leave poor families exempt from having to pay the tax, so I'm not sure how people can argue that it would do terrible things to the lower class when it doesn't affect them. A current proposal leaves single people with an income of $25,000 a year exempt, and $30,000 for families (increasing with family size). To put this into perspective, the average annual income of the poor is around $10,000. The upper bounds of what is considered poor for singles doesn't really reach $25,000. There are other proposals that up that that number to $35,000 or more.[/QUOTE]
if the fair tax relies on sales tax then how does income come into it?
[QUOTE=thisispain;29209175]no they don't, that's why there was a foreclosure crisis. people tend to live far out of their means in the united states which leads to a lot of fucked up problems.
sweden, luxemburg, and norway has far more spending power per citizen yet which nation is commonly referred to as the gluttonous one?[/QUOTE]
Which is why I said most. People lived outside their means, egged on by a society that told them they DESERVE a big house with a filled 2 or 3 car garage, that large tv and that 4x4 to take the kids to school.
[QUOTE=Ridge;29209199]And the same dollar gets taxed every year as accumulated wealth. It's unfair. You pay a tax to get your money, you pay a tax to keep it, and you pay a tax to spend it.[/QUOTE]
where are all these imaginary taxes coming from?
[QUOTE=Ridge;29209199]And the same dollar gets taxed every year as accumulated wealth. It's unfair. You pay a tax to get your money, you pay a tax to keep it, and you pay a tax to spend it.[/QUOTE]
Whats not fair is the upper 1% controlling more wealth than the bottom 90% combined because they used corruption and bribery to keep the bottom 90% where they are
[QUOTE=Ridge;29209212]Which is why I said most. People lived outside their means, egged on by a society that told them they DESERVE a big house with a filled 2 or 3 car garage, that large tv and that 4x4 to take the kids to school.[/QUOTE]
right which why it's very crucial for someone to actually look at this instead of just going with it and say "don't worry it balances out, trust me"
[QUOTE=thisispain;29209220]where are all these imaginary taxes coming from?[/QUOTE]
Income tax, income tax, sales tax
[editline]15th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jiyoon;29209244]Whats not fair is the upper 1% controlling more wealth than the bottom 90% combined because they used corruption and bribery to keep the bottom 90% where they are[/QUOTE]
You cannot prove they used corruption and bribery to get where they are and to keep it that way. It's all factless heresay.
[QUOTE=Ridge;29209199]And the same dollar gets taxed every year as accumulated wealth. It's unfair. You pay a tax to get your money, you pay a tax to keep it, and you pay a tax to spend it.[/QUOTE]
People are far too worried about keeping their little green slips of green cotton based paper.
[QUOTE=thisispain;29209251]right which why it's very crucial for someone to actually look at this instead of just going with it and say "don't worry it balances out, trust me"[/QUOTE]
We'll have to pass the tax to see what it does.
[editline]15th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29209274]People are far too worried about keeping their little green slips of green cotton based paper.[/QUOTE]
You're totally right, mann. We should like, just all help out and give freely to one another.
[QUOTE=Ridge;29209262]
You cannot prove they used corruption and bribery to get where they are and to keep it that way. It's all factless heresay.[/QUOTE]
Oh ok people are perfect and don't screw eachother over. Republicans really DO believe in trickle down economics, thats why they give tax breaks to the very people who could be getting them more revenue, and NOT because the republicans get all their campaign contributions from these companies.
Watch "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington"
[QUOTE=Ridge;29209262]Income tax, income tax, sales tax
[editline]15th April 2011[/editline]
You cannot prove they used corruption and bribery to get where they are and to keep it that way. It's all factless heresay.[/QUOTE]
You may not be able to prove it for all but oh man can you ever prove corruption in institutions such as banks/investment firms where a dickload of rich people come from.
[QUOTE=Ridge;29209277]We'll have to pass the tax to see what it does.
[editline]15th April 2011[/editline]
You're totally right, mann. We should like, just all help out and give freely to one another.[/QUOTE]
You know, you mock it but i've never really understood how sharing and helping others is a bad thing.
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