House Dems pull the ol' switcharoo on Republicans - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Ridge;29209277]You're totally right, mann. We should like, just all help out and give freely to one another.[/QUOTE] God forbid.

[QUOTE=Ridge;29209262]Income tax, income tax, sales tax [/QUOTE] you said income tax twice and sales tax doesn't even exist in many states. [editline]15th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Ridge;29209277]We'll have to pass the tax to see what it does. [/QUOTE] that's just retarded. this is why you can't balance your bloody budgets.

THE FAIR TAX actually a regressive tax but ITS GOING TO HELP THE NATION ;~)

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;29209312]You may not be able to prove it for all but oh man can you ever prove corruption in institutions such as banks/investment firms where a dickload of rich people come from.[/QUOTE] Absolutely there are rich assholes out there, but you can't generalize all of them like that. Look at Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, whoever the hell runs Google. They make huge donations to charities every year, and offer employees stock options or profit sharing. Just because Brian Moynihan is a fuckstick doesn't make all of them one. [editline]15th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;29209334]you said income tax twice and sales tax doesn't even exist in many states. [editline]15th April 2011[/editline] that's just retarded. this is why you can't balance your bloody budgets.[/QUOTE] Yeah and Texas has no state income tax. They created, what, 165,000 jobs there last year? California, one of the heaviest taxed states lost 1 and a half million in the same time frame?

[QUOTE=Ridge;29209376] Yeah and Texas has no sales tax. They created, what, 165,000 jobs there last year? California, one of the heaviest taxed states lost 1 and a half million in the same time frame?[/QUOTE] Are you actually implying theres a relationship between sales tax and creation of jobs?

[QUOTE=Ridge;29209376]Absolutely there are rich assholes out there, but you can't generalize all of them like that. Look at Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, whoever the hell runs Google. They make huge donations to charities every year, and offer employees stock options or profit sharing. Just because Brian Moynihan is a fuckstick doesn't make all of them one. [editline]15th April 2011[/editline] Yeah and Texas has no sales tax. They created, what, 165,000 jobs there last year? California, one of the heaviest taxed states lost 1 and a half million in the same time frame?[/QUOTE] i think you're confusing correlation and causation here

[QUOTE=Ridge;29209376] Yeah and Texas has no sales tax. They created, what, 165,000 jobs there last year? California, one of the heaviest taxed states lost 1 and a half million in the same time frame?[/QUOTE] what a load of bullshit. i find it hard to believe anything you say anymore. please wear this hat and stop wasting people's time: [img]http://theleaningcow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/dunce-hat2.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Jiyoon;29209398]Are you actually implying theres a relationship between sales tax and creation of jobs?[/QUOTE] I'm implying there is a relationship between level of taxation and the willingness of business to accept those. [editline]15th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;29209405]what a load of bullshit. i find it hard to believe anything you say anymore. please wear this hat and stop wasting people's time: [img_thumb]http://theleaningcow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/dunce-hat2.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] Photo is copyrighted. Also, I was wrong. I apologize. [url=http://www.statesman.com/business/california-delegation-coming-to-see-what-texas-does-1394447.html]California only lost 1.2 million[/url]

[QUOTE=Ridge;29209376]Yeah and Texas has no sales tax. They created, what, 165,000 jobs there last year? California, one of the heaviest taxed states lost 1 and a half million in the same time frame?[/QUOTE] id like to ask how you think any of that has to do with each other. Did you know that when I ate my lunch today someone died somewhere in the world? Boycott lunch 2011 [editline]16th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Ridge;29209415]I'm implying there is a relationship between level of taxation and the willingness of business to accept those.[/QUOTE] have you ever taken an economics course ever

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;29209429]id like to ask how you think any of that has to do with each other. Did you know that when I ate my lunch today someone died somewhere in the world? Boycott lunch 2011[/QUOTE] Says [url=http://www.statesman.com/business/california-delegation-coming-to-see-what-texas-does-1394447.html]right here[/url] that California politicians are going to ask companies that left CA to go to TX why they did it. I bet I can figure it out.

[QUOTE=Ridge;29209441]Says [url=http://www.statesman.com/business/california-delegation-coming-to-see-what-texas-does-1394447.html]right here[/url] that California politicians are going to ask companies that left CA to go to TX why they did it. I bet I can figure it out.[/QUOTE] You need to understand. California is not Texas.

[QUOTE=Ridge;29209441]Says [url=http://www.statesman.com/business/california-delegation-coming-to-see-what-texas-does-1394447.html]right here[/url] that California politicians are going to ask companies that left CA to go to TX why they did it. I bet I can figure it out.[/QUOTE] you're gonna have to do more than that to prove that sales tax and job creation are linked

[QUOTE=Lazor;29209471]you're gonna have to do more than that to prove that sales tax and job creation are linked[/QUOTE] Taxes in general. All these businesses determined it would cost them less to move their entire operation a third of the way across the country, than it would to continue to stay where they were.

[QUOTE=Ridge;29209482]Taxes in general. All these businesses determined it would cost them less to move their entire operation a third of the way across the country, than it would to continue to stay where they were.[/QUOTE] i think what you're implying, is that if we lose jobs to china, we should strive to be more like china jobs aren't the only important thing, mr. tunnel vision anyways i'm pretty scatter brained right now, time for some sleep

[QUOTE=Ridge;29209376]Absolutely there are rich assholes out there, but you can't generalize all of them like that. Look at Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, whoever the hell runs Google. They make huge donations to charities every year, and offer employees stock options or profit sharing. Just because Brian Moynihan is a fuckstick doesn't make all of them one. [editline]15th April 2011[/editline] Yeah and Texas has no sales tax. They created, what, 165,000 jobs there last year? California, one of the heaviest taxed states lost 1 and a half million in the same time frame?[/QUOTE] [B][I]WHAT?[/I][/B] I live in Texas, dipshit, and I pay 8.25% on every fucking thing I buy that isn't exempt. Pretty goddamn sure that's a sales tax.

[QUOTE=Lazor;29209511]i think what you're implying, is that if we lose jobs to china, we should strive to be more like china [/quote] No, we need to make it more profitable for them to be based state side, as opposed to shipping all their stuff over. Raise tariffs, make it easier for them to keep everything domestic. [quote]jobs aren't the only important thing, mr. tunnel vision [/quote] No, but they are what is important right now. Free healthcare or cheaper gas won't mean a damn thing if nobody is making the money to pay for it. [quote]anyways i'm pretty scatter brained right now, time for some sleep[/QUOTE] Good night. [editline]15th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Xen Tricks;29209518][B][I]WHAT?[/I][/B] I live in Texas, dipshit, and I pay 8.25% on every fucking thing I buy that isn't exempt. Pretty goddamn sure that's a sales tax.[/QUOTE] Sorry, brain fart. There is no state income tax. Changed it.

[QUOTE=Ridge;29209531]No, we need to make it more profitable for them to be based state side, as opposed to shipping all their stuff over. Raise tariffs, make it easier for them to keep everything domestic. No, but they are what is important right now. Free healthcare or cheaper gas won't mean a damn thing if nobody is making the money to pay for it. Good night. [editline]15th April 2011[/editline] Sorry, brain fart. There is no state income tax. Changed it.[/QUOTE] Yea, we don't, and we're billions of dollars in debt thanks in part to that.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;29209542]Yea, we don't, and we're billions of dollars in debt thanks in part to that.[/QUOTE] Still the least in debt state, I think.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;29209178]A is B but B is not always A. Poor people are all lower class but not all lower class people are poor, thus it would still affect people with less money, and not affect people with more money enough.[/QUOTE] You really need to get into numbers here. The average American income is about $45,000. The average American has to pay taxes. The upper end of the people making lower class have to pay taxes. In order to have an argument here, you'd have to demonstrate that the lower class would be paying far more now than they were before. I don't know what the difference would be, I'm just trying to clarify that flat taxation would not affect people it shouldn't. I also fail to see why the rich deserve to be taxed more. The poor shouldn't be taxed because they can't sustain the blow. I don't think it is valid or fair to take the opposite of that logic and say that the rich deserve to be taxed more because they can sustain the blow. I'd rather see fairness. I'm really not sure if I'm support of a flat tax, but I am in favor of tax reform. The current system is so messed up and has too many loop holes that allow people to get out of giving taxes. It's usually really rich people and big business that use the loopholes. [QUOTE=thisispain;29209200]if the fair tax relies on sales tax then how does income come into it?[/QUOTE] I'm talking about the flat tax.

[QUOTE=Ridge;29209553]Still the least in debt state, I think.[/QUOTE] I somehow highly doubt that because we're cripplingly in debt. [editline]16th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Pepin;29209554]You really need to get into numbers here. The average American income is about $45,000. The average American has to pay taxes. The upper end of the people making lower class have to pay taxes. In order to have an argument here, you'd have to demonstrate that the lower class would be paying far more now than they were before. I don't know what the difference would be, I'm just trying to clarify that flat taxation would not affect people it shouldn't. I also fail to see why the rich deserve to be taxed more. The poor shouldn't be taxed because they can't sustain the blow. I don't think it is valid or fair to take the opposite of that logic and say that the rich deserve to be taxed more because they can sustain the blow. I'd rather see fairness. I'm really not sure if I'm support of a flat tax, but I am in favor of tax reform. The current system is so messed up and has too many loop holes that allow people to get out of giving taxes. It's usually really rich people and big business that use the loopholes. I'm talking about the flat tax.[/QUOTE] The rich should be taxed more because they have more money to provide, pretty much. I know that's what you said is what sounds illogical, but if you tax everyone at the same rate you lose out on a very large amount of tax money that you would otherwise get from a progressive tax. We're already very in debt, and any level of flat tax that wouldn't be crippling to lower class families would also affect the rich much less and thus get even less money for the gov't.

[QUOTE=Ridge;29209441]Says [url=http://www.statesman.com/business/california-delegation-coming-to-see-what-texas-does-1394447.html]right here[/url] that California politicians are going to ask companies that left CA to go to TX why they did it. I bet I can figure it out.[/QUOTE] Ridge: figuring out this nations problems so you dont have to more at 11

[QUOTE=Ridge;29209553]Still the least in debt state, I think.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-texas-debt-clock.html[/url] [url]http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-california-debt-clock.html[/url] [url]http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/mar/10/california-vs-texas-which-has-best-economy/[/url]

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;29209568]I somehow highly doubt that because we're cripplingly in debt.[/QUOTE] I'm loving you

[QUOTE=thisispain;29209599][url]http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-texas-debt-clock.html[/url] [url]http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-california-debt-clock.html[/url] [url]http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/mar/10/california-vs-texas-which-has-best-economy/[/url][/QUOTE] Whelp there goes your argument. Companies may be coming to Texas because of the lack of a state income tax but it's pretty obviously not helping out the state.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;29209568]The rich should be taxed more because they have more money to provide, pretty much. I know that's what you said is what sounds illogical, but if you tax everyone at the same rate you lose out on a very large amount of tax money that you would otherwise get from a progressive tax. We're already very in debt, and any level of flat tax that wouldn't be crippling to lower class families would also affect the rich much less and thus get even less money for the gov't.[/QUOTE] I'm trying to identify the kind of logic in opposite claims. The only thing I've come up with is . "John has brittle bones disease so he does not deserve to be punched in the face. Jim does not have brittle bones disease so he does deserve to be punched in the face". That's just off the top of my head. Something about that form of argument doesn't make much sense. I don't necessarily want to say that a flat tax would hurt or help the poor until I find a few sources with numbers. I do know that many people argue the flat tax would bring about more revenue especially from the upper class because they would eliminate all these common loop holes people use. Again, I'm not sure about the numbers, or even if there would be a way to get an accurate number on it. To reiterate my perspective, I'm not really in support of the fair tax, I'm more just in support in tax reform.

[QUOTE=Pepin;29209619]I'm trying to identify the kind of logic in opposite claims. The only thing I've come up with is . "John has brittle bones disease so he does not dereve to be punched in the face[/QUOTE] ...what? Also thx jiyoon bby e: "Accidentally pressed enter, so I'll finish this response in a minute. " I see your point and it's still missing mine. The purpose of a tax is to support the government, taxing less overall will affect the lower classes the same as before but the upper classes less and give the government less money to operate on.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;29209616]Whelp there goes your argument. Companies may be coming to Texas because of the lack of a state income tax but it's pretty obviously not helping out the state.[/QUOTE] texas may not have an income tax but it does have a higher estate tax than california. land is more expensive in california due to a more competitive housing market. and it doesn't explain why california has much much much higher investments going into it than texas. also, as a business you might not pay as much income tax, but you definitely pay out in other taxes. [url]http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxes/[/url]

[QUOTE=thisispain;29209655]texas may not have an income tax but it does have a higher estate tax than california. land is more expensive in california due to a more competitive housing market. and it doesn't explain why california has much much much higher investments going into it than texas. also, as a business you might not pay as much income tax, but you definitely pay out in other taxes. [url]http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxes/[/url][/QUOTE] :iiam: I've never even heard of this before ridge brought it up so I can't comment much on it. Also wtf Texas, not cool: [url]http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/sobus_fee/index.html[/url] e: and in case it wasn't clear, "your argument" referred to ridge's

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;29209633]I see your point and it's still missing mine. The purpose of a tax is to support the government, taxing less overall will affect the lower classes the same as before but the upper classes less and give the government less money to operate on.[/QUOTE] I can see the logic there which is where my views get into a bit of conflict. I think it makes sense to tax the rich more, but I don't believe it makes sense to say that they deserve it. Ideally, I wouldn't want income taxed at all, but with the current system there aren't many alternatives.

[QUOTE=Pepin;29209735]I can see the logic there which is where my views get into a bit of conflict. I think it makes sense to tax the rich more, but I don't believe it makes sense to say that they deserve it. Ideally, I wouldn't want income taxed at all, but with the current system there aren't many alternatives.[/QUOTE] I never said they deserved it for being rich, they just need to to support the system.