Officer caught on video slamming student against the floor and dragging them across the room - Polidicks

We are raising a generation of entitled brats who think they are above all authority and the law. What are we teaching “children” and young adults when a 17- or 18-year-old can disrupt a class, ignore 3 adult authority figures, and STRIKE an officer, and the officer gets fired for handling the situation? If you are applauding the termination of Officer Fields and defending that brat, go ahead and pat yourself on the back. It’s this mindset that’s breeding disrespectful punks and causing them to get shot. Stop making kids think they are above the law and authority. You’re not doing them or society any favors.

[QUOTE=acer8;49022295]We are raising a generation of entitled brats who think they are above all authority and the law. What are we teaching “children” and young adults when a 17- or 18-year-old can disrupt a class, ignore 3 adult authority figures, and STRIKE an officer, and the officer gets fired for handling the situation? If you are applauding the termination of Officer Fields and defending that brat, go ahead and pat yourself on the back. It’s this mindset that’s breeding disrespectful punks and causing them to get shot. Stop making kids think they are above the law and authority. You’re not doing them or society any favors.[/QUOTE] Even if I went to the effort to tell you why your assumption about "this generation" was wrong based on comaprisons to every other generation, even if I went to the effort to elaborate why the level of force used by Fields was wrong in every situation due to his training never advising him to do what he did, I know you'd just stick your fingers in your ears and tell some bullshit about entitlement. Don't waste our time

[QUOTE=acer8;49022295]We are raising a generation of entitled brats who think they are above all authority and the law. What are we teaching “children” and young adults when a 17- or 18-year-old can disrupt a class, ignore 3 adult authority figures, and STRIKE an officer, and the officer gets fired for handling the situation? If you are applauding the termination of Officer Fields and defending that brat, go ahead and pat yourself on the back. It’s this mindset that’s breeding disrespectful punks and causing them to get shot. Stop making kids think they are above the law and authority. You’re not doing them or society any favors.[/QUOTE] The generalization going on in this post is pathetic :v:

[QUOTE=DuCT;49021617]Has this been posted yet? Remember, more info is always nice. [video=youtube;SmP-KuHHMnI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmP-KuHHMnI[/video][/QUOTE] So, BDA. Kinda interested to hear your thoughts now. Kneed in the groin a and punched in the head. What would you have done?

[QUOTE=jonjon1234;49023001]So, BDA. Kinda interested to hear your thoughts now. Kneed in the groin a and punched in the head. What would you have done?[/QUOTE] He broke his training. How fucking hard is this to understand? He did not handle the situation as per his fucking training. I know if I did that in my job, I'd be fired. Why can't you guys get that cops still have to follow the rules too?

[QUOTE=strayebyrd;49020884]I find it bizarre that a police officer even had to be called. We used to have situations exactly like this in my old school pretty regularly with misbehaving students and no one ever had to call any police officers.[/quote] I personally have never gone to a traditional public school, so I can't comment from experience but I do agree it seems odd to involve the police given the context (if the student was just sitting there quietly the entire time, they disturbed the class far more and for far longer by making a big deal about it then and there). [quote] Also truthfully I do feel like people on facepunch seem to attempt to justify police actions very aggressively. like, I'm not anti police in any way, but no matter what the police do when it ends up here, people will refuse to entertain for a second that the police officer committed any wrongdoing. I just find it odd that after the history of corruption and malpractice in police forces, people still refuse to entertain the possibility. I understand not assuming the police are wrong every time, but people on Facepunch seem eager to defend police without even properly looking at the facts, the exact sort of thing they criticize the opposite side for. Surely the correct approach would be to take neutral ground and wait for facts?[/QUOTE] Personally, I care a lot about the context, perhaps even more so than the incident. In that, this individual brought forceful action upon themselves by not complying despite given a number of opportunities to do so. I can't pity them for that and honestly just don't care about the potential or actual injuries with regards to what happened; they are the same as any other person being an asshole to someone just trying to do their job. Mind, I still have bounds on what I find acceptable and have seen several cases where I do, morally, view police actions as wrong (generally when officers use force against someone who is already detained). Also, that's not to say the officer in this case didn't do anything wrong. As HumanAbyss pointed out to me, he violated his training and was fired for that. Further, to my understanding, it remains to be seen if he will be charged with a crime as well.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49023048]He broke his training.[/quote] I understand that completely. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49023048] How fucking hard is this to understand? He did not handle the situation as per his fucking training. [/quote] Not hard at all. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49023048] I know if I did that in my job, I'd be fired. Why can't you guys get that cops still have to follow the rules too?[/QUOTE] I fully understand that too. If you don't mind me asking, what is your job? Again, I understand that he was fired, that he didn't follow his training. I am merely asking, to BDA, what would he have done in this situation, since he seems to be the master of restraint and police technique. And if anyone knows, what is the training and procedure for that situation? Being British, we have different sets of rules for our Police, and I don't know what the proper way of handling this situation would have been.

[QUOTE=jonjon1234;49025615]I understand that completely. Not hard at all. I fully understand that too. If you don't mind me asking, what is your job? Again, I understand that he was fired, that he didn't follow his training. I am merely asking, to BDA, what would he have done in this situation, since he seems to be the master of restraint and police technique. And if anyone knows, what is the training and procedure for that situation? Being British, we have different sets of rules for our Police, and I don't know what the proper way of handling this situation would have been.[/QUOTE] In literally any of my jobs, breaking my training would have gotten me fired, seeing as I've worked in about 15 different jobs in the last 5 years alone, I'm not sure which one you'd need to hear to go "A hah! Gotcha". As an insurance professional, yes, I would either lose my job, or be held liable for the losses being taken on in that position. Why should a cop get out of that? We don't have specifics as to the actual training in question, we just know he broke it according to the very people who trained him. BDA isn't pretending, or even trying to act like a master of restraint or police technique. I think he, much like myself, cannot see how the actions performed on his part were correct. Not knowing an alternative perfect solution is not however, ever, an excuse to continue with a broken method.

Arguments about our "lazy" generation asside, its gotten sort of scary how easy any action is now justifiable by resisting arrest, and how easy non compliance becomes resisting arrest. There have been plenty of these cases lately where a cop dramatically escalated a situation because a person did not comply 100% with whatever they demanded, and I understand you should cooperate but a cops can't tell you to jump off a bridge, there are actual limits to what they can compel you to do, but then it becomes again murkier because they can twist lack of perfect cooperation into probable cause for other things such as search, property siezure, and even short term detention, all by suspision that you have done something I'm not paranoid its just the justice system has used a combination of terrorism, the war on drugs, and relied on the police lobbies to train the police and conduct all the research on how to train the police in one giant feedback loop to get to the point that cops have a very large leeway on your personal liberties [editline]1st November 2015[/editline] Like if you or me trained a cop to work with children and minors, probably the #1 thing I'd advise them to do is not react with threats of force or aggression, because anyone who's lived with teenagers knows that doesn't work ever. Yet these school officers aren't trained on how that's wrong, they're trained to know that if they don't draw first or hit hard first, they will be taken out, go look up the guy that runs most of the police academy training, and does the bulk of their training research, he has spent the last 20 years demonstrating that if a cop doesn't react first they will die, by using incredibly simplified models that don't really reflect real world situations

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49025639]In literally any of my jobs, breaking my training would have gotten me fired, seeing as I've worked in about 15 different jobs in the last 5 years alone, I'm not sure which one you'd need to hear to go "A hah! Gotcha". [/quote] Fair enough. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49025639] As an insurance professional, yes, I would either lose my job, or be held liable for the losses being taken on in that position. Why should a cop get out of that? [/quote] Because from what I've been able to see, the Officer had a non-compliant suspect, who was given no less than 7 chances (from the officer himself, not including the teacher and administrator) to leave by her own will. From what I can tell (as a non-expert), he started trying in a not-as-aggressive manner, before being hit, at which point he becomes much more aggressive. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49025639] We don't have specifics as to the actual training in question, we just know he broke it according to the very people who trained him. [/quote] Whilst this is fair enough, it would be nice for the rest of us to know from them what the training dictates he should have done. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49025639] BDA isn't pretending, or even trying to act like a master of restraint or police technique. I think he, much like myself, cannot see how the actions performed on his part were correct. Not knowing an alternative perfect solution is not however, ever, an excuse to continue with a broken method.[/QUOTE] Ah. Sorry. I got confused when he stated that the optimal technique would be "picking the toddler up by the legs and chucking her out a window". I must have been mistaken. /s However, it wasn't a post asking for the optimal solution. It was a post asking for any other possible solution, to remove her from the room. Sorry if I sounded a bit passive-aggressive in my first post.

[QUOTE=jonjon1234;49025689]Fair enough. Because from what I've been able to see, the Officer had a non-compliant suspect, who was given no less than 7 chances (from the officer himself, not including the teacher and administrator) to leave by her own will. From what I can tell (as a non-expert), he started trying in a not-as-aggressive manner, before being hit, at which point he becomes much more aggressive. Whilst this is fair enough, it would be nice for the rest of us to know from them what the training dictates he should have done. Ah. Sorry. I got confused when he stated that the optimal technique would be [B]"picking the toddler up by the legs and chucking her out a window"[/B]. I must have been mistaken. However, it wasn't a post asking for the optimal solution. It was a post asking for any other possible solution, to remove her from the room. Sorry if I sounded a bit passive-aggressive in my first post.[/QUOTE] that was an hyperbole to try to resonate them into understanding the absurdity of their position. it clearly didn't work and you think he was actually dispensing advice for this kind of situation, i mean what the hell but whatever you're being facetious from a to z and you're not even trying to hide it. Ah. My bad. etc

[QUOTE=Mechanical43;49025778]that was an hyperbole to try to resonate them into understanding the absurdity of their position. it clearly didn't work and you think he was actually dispensing advice for this kind of situation, i mean what the hell but whatever you're being facetious from a to z and you're not even trying to hide it. Ah. My bad. etc[/QUOTE] Yes, it was a (poor) attempt at sarcasm. I always forget it doesn't transfer through the internet well. I'll amend my post. Unfortunately, everyone in this thread is good at saying what he should not have done, but I haven't seen anyone (bar people talking about the admin staff) say what the officer in that situation should have done. She was failing to comply after being arrested. Sure, less less force, but she was resisting being arrested and removed from the room. What was he meant to do?

[QUOTE=jonjon1234;49026032]Yes, it was a (poor) attempt at sarcasm. I always forget it doesn't transfer through the internet well. I'll amend my post. Unfortunately, everyone in this thread is good at saying what he should not have done, but I haven't seen anyone (bar people talking about the admin staff) say what the officer in that situation should have done. She was failing to comply after being arrested. Sure, less less force, but she was resisting being arrested and removed from the room. What was he meant to do?[/QUOTE] Like we've said plenty of times, wait it out and call her parents/have the prinicple talk to her/give her detention/any other reasonable punishment? I realize he was called in to get her to leave, but he should have reasoned that force was inappropriate. He attempted to arrest her even though she was not an immediate danger. The police shouldn't have been brought in the first place, but he was. In my personal opinion the teacher was also in the wrong - though I guess it's normal in the US to call in an officer when a teenager refuses to leave the classroom - but he's the one who escalated the situation and used force - force that was not part of his training to add to that, since that's what he did wrong in the eyes of his superiors.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;49026097]Like we've said plenty of times, [b]wait it out and call her parents/have the prinicple talk to her/give her detention/any other reasonable punishment?[/b] I realize he was called in to get her to leave, but he should have reasoned that force was inappropriate. He attempted to arrest her even though she was not an immediate danger. The police shouldn't have been brought in the first place, but he was. In my personal opinion the teacher was also in the wrong - though I guess it's normal in the US to call in an officer when a teenager refuses to leave the classroom - but he's the one who escalated the situation and used force - force that was not part of his training to add to that, since that's what he did wrong in the eyes of his superiors.[/QUOTE] [quote=jonjon1234](bar people talking about the admin staff)[/quote] Yes, the teen is in the wrong for resisting. Yes, the officer is in the wrong for using excessive force / not following standards. Yes, the school administration is in the wrong for calling the officer in the first place. But with someone resisting arrest and assaulting an officer, what else could the officer (as a LEO, not as a school official) have done? Once I know that, I'll be happy to shut up. Where's Code3 when you need him to explain these things?

[QUOTE=jonjon1234;49023001]So, BDA. Kinda interested to hear your thoughts now. Kneed in the groin a and punched in the head. What would you have done?[/QUOTE] If I was the officer I wouldn't have tried to move her directly in the first place, I'd simply drag her desk into the hallway

[QUOTE=cody8295;49026671]If I was the officer I wouldn't have tried to move her directly in the first place, I'd simply drag her desk into the hallway[/QUOTE] The logistics of that are absurd. It would be difficult to drag the desk with her past all of the other desks and not to mention through the door.

[QUOTE=Fort83;49027069]Interesting to note that some students at the school did a "walk out" in support of the officer.[/QUOTE] Any kid that did that only did it to get out of school.

[QUOTE=DaMastez;49023883]I personally have never gone to a traditional public school, so I can't comment from experience but I do agree it seems odd to involve the police given the context (if the student was just sitting there quietly the entire time, they disturbed the class far more and for far longer by making a big deal about it then and there). [/QUOTE] I went to a proper comprehensive school so it had some kids who were pretty unstable. If a kid were to lay his hands on a teacher even that would rarely result in police action. In situations like this one, the typical action is to go 'if you leave now it's just a detention, if you refuse to leave you'll be suspended' and then leave the ball in their court, and ignore them unless they start attempting to get attention. Also I absolutely agree with you on the context thing. I wanted to make clear in my original message and I hope I did, that when a police officer does the right thing/does good I'm not a guy who will turn it around on them. Once I'm provided evidence that what they did was the correct procedure I will happily accept it. I guess what I was trying to say was that a lot of the pro police people on here argue that anti police people should take a neutral standpoint before evidence is provided, yet they themselves will attempt to twist stories quite frequently to fit their narratives. It isn't a thing that's exclusive to this thread, I see it almost every time I read a story about alleged police misconduct on here. All of us have our biases and I accept that, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that if someone is going to attack someone else for their biases they should first ensure their own biases aren't also present in the argument.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49027101]Any kid that did that only did it to get out of school.[/QUOTE] Some sure, definitely not everyone.

As far as I'm concerned, both parties escalated the situation beyond any point of return. The girl for refusing to so much as even reply and the officer for escalating to the point where both parties were going to use force against each other. I don't think the officer really needed to be fired personally, but then again I'm under the rationale that even if he lost his cool, he was still keeping himself rather tame considering he was attacked three times while trying to remove the student. As for most people arguing that, "You should always fall back to training!" at what point could training have resolved the situation? Deescalation had already broken down once the student refused to so much as acknowledge the officer's existence, refused to respond to the teacher, and failed to remove themselves when asked roughly five times. After that point the only other method is to coerce, which was attempted and resulted in the officer being attacked... And as such the student was taken down via force. Some people may suggest just removing yourself, the students, and the teacher from the classroom and just wait it out, but all that accomplishes is fucking over the other students in regards to a schoolday. Which is illegal by the way, it's called Disruption of a Public Education Facilitation, and yeah it is something which will get your ass arrested. So lets recap... The student broke roughly in the range of three to four laws. Assaulting an Officer, Disrupting the Peace, Disrupting a Public Education Facility, and Failure to Comply. One of those is a felony, two are worthy of write up, and one is a misdemeanor. However you want to spin this, that is the reality. The assault of an officer already pretty much guarantees equal usage of force, and the fact that the situation went on for as long as it did, is kinda surprising to me.

It's another situation where both parties are wrong! Better treat it black and white! Good ole Facepunch

[QUOTE=jonjon1234;49026393]Yes, the teen is in the wrong for resisting. Yes, the officer is in the wrong for using excessive force / not following standards. Yes, the school administration is in the wrong for calling the officer in the first place. But with someone resisting arrest and assaulting an officer, what else could the officer (as a LEO, not as a school official) have done? Once I know that, I'll be happy to shut up. Where's Code3 when you need him to explain these things?[/QUOTE] This the point I was making, just because she refused to comply doesn't mean she should be considered resisting arrest now and even if she was the manner he used was never justified for use on a minor especially in a case like this. People are using resisting arrest as some clear check box that then justifies anything proceeding it, yet they fail to realize just how subjective resisting arrest is, practically every drunk college student would be resisting arrest but cops don't usually charge them with that because its a very situational thing They needed a guidance counciler not a strongman, again using force against a pissed off teenager is a very dumb and hotheaded idea, they don't respond to force or threats of force

Resisting arrest, even when throwing a couple punches, does not warrant a full bodyslam as a response. Throwing her up in the air like that was reckless and stupid since she could have just as easily cracked her skull on the floor or against another desk at which point the policeman would have been responsible for a lot more than losing his temper. The police is allowed to respond with force but within reasonable bounds, according to the current parameters. They're given specific training on how to handle individuals in a way that is both the most efficient and the safest for both the officer and the suspect, specifically to avoid shit like the guy snapping his neck on the pavement. Besides, if an officer fails to follow the training that he was given it means he's either incompetent or lost his temper, two things that aren't acceptable when you're doing a job as rigorous as this. If you can't stay calm in response to people being obnoxious fuckheads then you shouldn't be in any police force.

idk about you but I'd expect a body slam if I punched anyone, let alone a fucking cop

The officer shouldn't have full on thrown her to the floor, that in itself is inexcusable. But it doesn't get rid of the fact that she was actively resisting both her teacher and the police officer on the task that she was doing. If she had an issue with walking, or she couldn't get up, then she should of said something. But from what's been said online, I'm pretty sure she was just being an idiot and trying to resist authority. He could've dragged the desk out of the room if need be instead of literally flipping her.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;49027394]As for most people arguing that, "You should always fall back to training!" at what point could training have resolved the situation? Deescalation had already broken down once the student refused to so much as acknowledge the officer's existence, refused to respond to the teacher, and failed to remove themselves when asked roughly five times. After that point the only other method is to coerce, which was attempted and resulted in the officer being attacked... And as such the student was taken down via force.[/QUOTE] Training with regards to how to restrain someone perhaps is what they are referring to? Though I doubt they are trained how to remove someone from a school desk, which appears to be very inclosing.