[QUOTE=Erector Beast;42992166]The article doesn't address it, but the Pope apparently also denounced trickle-down economics today, and criticized it for the growing economic inequality it's creating. He also talked about ongoing efforts to get a larger female presence in the Church.[/QUOTE]
I think, according to what I heard earlier, he specifically called Capitalism (I think referring to the reagonomics brand of it) "Economic Tyranny"
[QUOTE=Craigewan;42992272]I think, according to what I heard earlier, he specifically called Capitalism (I think referring to the reagonomics brand of it) "Economic Tyranny"[/QUOTE]
Yes. He was very close to peronismo (which is today the secularized version of the social church doctrine in Argentina (Wasn't before 1950-ish)) so he advocates state intervention and regulation.
I like this guy. Not going back to Catholicism, but it really sounds like he's going the right way with things. It doesn't sound like he's committed to much yet, and he did rule out certain changes, but the tone of this was "change is coming, you better be ready".
In addition to the economic stuff others have mentioned, there's this bit:
[quote]“Our relationship with the followers of Islam has taken on great importance, since they are now significantly present in many traditionally Christian countries, where they can freely worship and become fully a part of society. We must never forget that they “profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, who will judge humanity on the last day”. The sacred writings of Islam have retained some Christian teachings; Jesus and Mary receive profound veneration and it is admirable to see how Muslims both young and old, men and women, make time for daily prayer and faithfully take part in religious services. Many of them also have a deep conviction that their life, in its entirety, is from God and for God. They also acknowledge the need to respond to God with an ethical commitment and with mercy towards those most in need.
“In order to sustain dialogue with Islam, suitable training is essential for all involved, not only so that they can be solidly and joyfully grounded in their own identity, but so that they can also acknowledge the values of others, appreciate the concerns underlying their demands and shed light on shared beliefs. We Christians should embrace with affection and respect Muslim immigrants to our countries in the same way that we hope and ask to be received and respected in countries of Islamic tradition. I ask and I humbly entreat those countries to grant Christians freedom to worship and to practice their faith, in light of the freedom which followers of Islam enjoy in Western countries! Faced with disconcerting episodes of violent fundamentalism, our respect for true followers of Islam should lead us to avoid hateful generalisations, for authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.”[/quote]
tl;dr version: Muslims are generally good people, they even love Jesus, so don't be haters. They're not terrorists. Also, it would be nice if Muslim countries granted Christians the same rights Western countries grant Muslims.
shit, I expected a CGI concept art of a parish that looked like an office or something out of star trek or half-life from the article title
i don't know why
So he wants to help the poor, reform authority structures, enfranchise women, and diminish the power of unrestricted corporatism?
ib4 CIA.
[QUOTE=Blind Lulu;42992488]Aren't there people who do want the Pope dead for making these changes though?
I could have sworn I heard something about the mob threatening his life.[/QUOTE]
The mob isn't that stupid to get the whole Italian police force on their head.
I think at this point he's become so polarizing that'd you need to kill his reputation before killing him. Otherwise he might die as a martyr that inspires a whole ton of people and only perpetuates the "problem". Especially if the inevitably much more conservative follow-up pope reminds everyone who they lost.
That's totally how it works, right? :v
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;42992235]Nah, you're mixing me with other people.
MInd you I was raised catholic and I still go to a catholic school.
Many people here -as I have said a thousand times- don't know or misunderstand what the Church says.
[/quote]
actually I'm fairly certain a fair number of us know what we're talking about
[quote]
For example, here:
The Church didn't preach hate and disdain for scientific advances. It preached hate (?) and disdain for [I][B]certain[/B][/I] scientific advances such as embrionary stem cells.[/quote]
that means literally the same thing. The word embrionary also doesn't exist (I believe the term you are looking for is embryotic). Not only that, but the stem cells are taken from fetuses that were already dead. They don't harvest them at random from mothers. It's literally the same as organ donation.
[quote]
How could it preach hate and disdain for scientific advances...having this?:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontifical_Academy_of_Sciences[/url][/quote]
Can't argue that the church hasn't helped science along in certain ways (look at genetics), but they also hold it back quite a bit.
[quote]
And they won't change jack about abortion and contraception.[/quote]
so they would rather have children grow up in households that would likely kill/fuck them up anyways.
[quote]
condoms maybe. German bishop has already said it's not a matter of faith/dogma.
Homo marriage....waaay far fetched, but not impossible as abortion.[/quote]
Already addressed contraceptive. "Homo Marriage" isn't a term as homo literally translates to "same". Gay marriage, however, is something that the church is going to have to accept whether it likes it or not.
[quote]
492. What are the principal [B][I][U]sins [/U][/I][/B]against chastity?
2351-2359
2396
Grave sins against chastity differ according to their object: adultery, masturbation, fornication, pornography, prostitution, rape, and [B][U]homosexual [/U][/B]acts. These sins are expressions of the vice of lust. These kinds of acts committed against the physical and moral integrity of minors become even more grave.
This is taught by all priests and fathers all around the world. I mean, wtf.
And look what happened to this guy, he got "fired":
[url]http://www.clarin.com/sociedad/Vaticano-cura-cordobes-apoyo-matrimonio_0_899910252.html[/url]
[/quote]
are you really saying that gay people are trying to influence the impoverished? Because I can see no other reason for you to include those quotes with that context.
I also love how you bolded homosexual like its the greatest sin of all of them
If that's actually what it is then I can bring in a list of the times the church blatantly misled people.
[quote]
"brainwashing the impoverished"
omg
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_social_teaching[/url]
[/quote]
the church has a lot of sway over the impoverished. They will believe whatever the church tells them.
I'm not religious but he's right about speaking more about the Gospel, there's some great advice in the bible that is spoken by others and Jesus, simple stuff like love thy neighbour that anyone should take a lesson on
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;42992235]The Church didn't preach hate and disdain for scientific advances. It preached hate (?) and disdain for [I][B]certain[/B][/I] scientific advances such as embrionary stem cells.[/QUOTE]
To clarify, you are correct, and I didn't actually mean the Church denied all of science's advancements. I was missing a word, and it was 'certain'. The Church doesn't disagree with a lot of what modern science has come up with, and I know has even backed it up through research within their own scientific departments. I mean, just a few centuries after censoring Galileo's theory, the Church has its own astronomers.
*snip*
[QUOTE=Erector Beast;42992569]To clarify, you are correct, and I didn't actually mean the Church denied all of science's advancements. I was missing a word, and it was 'certain'. The Church doesn't disagree with a lot of what modern science has come up with, and I know has even backed it up through research within their own scientific departments. I mean, just a few centuries after censoring Galileo's theory, the Church has its own astronomers.[/QUOTE]
a priest laid the foundation for genetics. The church does indeed help science advance to a degree. However whether the degree to which it helps us outweighs the detriments of its current existence is up to debate.
Even as a Protestant, I think Pope Francis is fucking awesome.
Could it really be? A Vatican council within my lifetime?!
[editline]27th November 2013[/editline]
it seems that's exactly where this pope wants to go.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42992598]a priest laid the foundation for genetics. The church does indeed help science advance to a degree. However whether the degree to which it helps us outweighs the detriments of its current existence is up to debate.[/QUOTE]
while this is true, it's also good to remember there was no other place to practice science of any sort other than the monastery unless you were otherwise rich.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;42993331]while this is true, it's also good to remember there was no other place to practice science of any sort other than the monastery unless you were otherwise rich.[/QUOTE]
its also true that you wouldn't be caught dead publishing findings that contradicted the church.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42993347]its also true that you wouldn't be caught dead publishing findings that contradicted the church.[/QUOTE]
yes are you arguing against yourself now?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;42993400]yes are you arguing against yourself now?[/QUOTE]
genetics didn't contradict church doctrine. Humanities been practicing it since prehistory without realizing it.
I bet he's a chill guy.
[editline]27th November 2013[/editline]
i mean if his security team are that happy
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42993432]genetics didn't contradict church doctrine. Humanities been practicing it since prehistory without realizing it.[/QUOTE]
i'm sorry maybe I missed something here and we're arguing about nothing, but where and when did I ever bring up or say for a second that genetics went against church doctrine
[editline]26th November 2013[/editline]
i'm just saying, you didn't do science unless you were rich, or worked for the church in monasteries in more isolated communities in a large amount of circumstances.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;42993464]i'm sorry maybe I missed something here and we're arguing about nothing, but where and when did I ever bring up or say for a second that genetics went against church doctrine
[editline]26th November 2013[/editline]
i'm just saying, you didn't do science unless you were rich, or worked for the church in
monasteries in more isolated communities in a large amount of circumstances.[/QUOTE]
oh sorry I misread your post. Disregard my bad reading
Btw here is the new english encyclical
[url]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium_en.pdf[/url]
Its fairly long but the stuff on economics and the poor starts around pg 147 and gets particularly interesting around 159 on.
[QUOTE]actually I'm fairly certain a fair number of us know what we're talking about
[/QUOTE]
A fair number is too little. Many people here don't understand the church doctrine, they haven't ever read the compendium nor looked up the stance of the Church in many issues, or what it says. They just got their knowledge out of the mass media, which as we know is not always interested in the whole.
[QUOTE]that means literally the same thing. The word embrionary also doesn't exist (I believe the term you are looking for is embryotic). Not only that, but the stem cells are taken from fetuses that were already dead. They don't harvest them at random from mothers. It's literally the same as organ donation.
[/QUOTE]
Its not the same.
The church "on papers" has a moral stance regarding science. As many here do have. I wonder what would you say if you yelled "Yeah science bitch!" and someone came up and said "Can I experiment on these twins to see the effects of growth hormones?" Im pretty sure most people will deny it.
Are they against science? Well, yes they are. It is wrong? No.[B] Now we could argue whether the reason behind why the church is agaisnt some experiments is wrong or right.[/B]
Now, im not a scientist so I had to check with wikipedia what you said. it said this:
[I]results in destruction of the fertilized human embryo, which raises ethical issues[/I]
[QUOTE]so they would rather have children grow up in households that would likely kill/fuck them up anyways.
[/QUOTE]
They argue "We are not to decide over someone's else life".
[QUOTE]Gay marriage, however, is something that the church is going to have to accept whether it likes it or not.[/QUOTE]
Highly unlikely. [B]Define "accept".[/B]
They still condone and say that people who divorce are sinning....yet how many decades has passed since divorcion was approved in most countries? It's that to "accept" divorce?
[QUOTE]are you really saying that gay people are trying to influence the impoverished? Because I can see no other reason for you to include those quotes with that context.
I also love how you bolded homosexual like its the greatest sin of all of them
If that's actually what it is then I can bring in a list of the times the church blatantly misled people.[/QUOTE]
The guy says "is a step away from brainwashing the mind of impoverished bla bla"
Yet what the Church says remains the same.
See? That's the reason behind my quote. The pope doesnt "brainwash" people,[B] the priests and fathers do.[/B] And it won't change if the new pope is named George Mary
I bolded homosexual and sin, to show they think homosexuality is still sin. So as to debunk the[I] "what he seems to be doing now [B]is a step away from brainwashing the impoverished with idiotic idea[/B]s (homophobia, etc)"[/I]
[QUOTE]the church has a lot of sway over the impoverished. They will believe whatever the church tells them.
[/QUOTE]
Not so sure. People believe what they want to believe, not what they are told to believe. If the Church says something that people believe or agreed beforehand, then they will continue to believe. Otherwise they will drop it or stop following it. All the christian churches show that. They come in many flavours, pro gay, anti gay, pro communism (Total non sense, but anyway...) etc etc.
Based Pope Francis
so is he gonna return the gold that the roman catholic church stole from the greek orthodox during crusade times?
Hell yeah lets have another Ecumenical council
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;42991745]Please tell me what kind of "changes" do you people expect....[/QUOTE]
Pessimism is awful and gets us nowhere
[QUOTE=Mr._N;42991814]I can't help but feel concerned for the Pope's safety.[/QUOTE]
yeah people who go against the established order and ruling elite always get killed. It happened to Julius Caesar, the Graccis, JFK, Bobby Kennedy, MLK, Malcolm X, etc etc etc
[QUOTE=ionuttzu;42992110]
[IMG]http://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.1379287!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.jpg[/IMG]
Pope Francis best pope all years[/QUOTE]He's so friendly looking too, not like the last pope.
[QUOTE=slayer64;42992601]Even as a Protestant, I think Pope Francis is fucking awesome.[/QUOTE]
Hopefully his awesomeness will undue the reformation.
[editline]27th November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Badballer;42995504]He's so friendly looking too, not like the last pope.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't look like the Sith lord and didn't have a hand in the child abuse scandals.
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