• Trump supporters tricked into waving Russian flags at Conservative Political Action Conference
    95 replies, posted
The Russian flag isn't even that complicated, it's almost the same as the french flag.
[QUOTE=Trainbike;51874211]So you've never had teachers put up a picture of a flag in a history or geography class? Not as a small icon on a slide or anything? You've never had school books show relevant flags? Flags are never displayed at all on the news when they're talking about a country? I find it hard to believe that none of these are common, because they sure are in Britain. And as previously stated in the thread, this is a world superpower we're talking about. Not knowing the Russian flag is like not knowing the US flag. It's just kind of absurd.[/QUOTE] Let's be honest here, the US flag, like the UK flag, is extremely easy to recognize. It stands out. The Russian flag is very similar to many other European tricolor flags. It's very easy to not recognize it unless you actually made a point of memorizing it. Also, there are tons of things that we were taught in school that we no longer know. I would guess that almost all US students have to memorize the date of US independence, for example, but I would also bet that the majority wouldn't now be able to get it right. [editline]25th February 2017[/editline] With that said, there is essentially no focus on Russia in US history classes (especially outside of the USSR). Blame the terrible education system. Ignorance about history has nothing to do with not knowing the flag and everything to do with it never being taught.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51874077]I would assume the same about the large majority of the world. We rarely see flags of other counties and it's a pretty irrelevant piece of information to know.[/QUOTE] Wow that says a lot about your country's education system.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51874218]Let's be honest here, the US flag, like the UK flag, is extremely easy to recognize. It stands out. The Russian flag is very similar to many other European tricolor flags. It's very easy to not recognize it unless you actually made a point of memorizing it. Also, there are tons of things that we were taught in school that we no longer know. I would guess that almost all US students have to memorize the date of US independence, for example, but I would also bet that the majority wouldn't now be able to get it right. [editline]25th February 2017[/editline] With that said, there is essentially no focus on Russia in US history classes (especially outside of the USSR). Blame the terrible education system.[/QUOTE] The news part is the most puzzling to me. I can [I]perhaps[/I] understand older people not being too savvy on flags. Particularly modern flags which may have changed since they would have been taught that kind of thing (The flag they'd associate with Russia having been the Soviet flag for instance). But are you telling me that CNN, Fox and whoever else never ever display a flag in the background or in the top corner or something when covering a story about a country?
I believe it's pretty relevant and you don't, it's arguable and that's fine I suppose but what happened here is that during times where the US president has allegedly Russian ties and his supporters waved the russian flag around without knowing it is a well done prank that does have meaning given the willing ignorance Trump supporters have being showing. Had they known, this foolishness wouldn't have happened.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51874242]I believe it's pretty relevant and you don't, it's arguable and that's fine I suppose but what happened here is that during times where the US president has allegedly Russian ties and his supporters waved the russian flag around without knowing it is a well done prank that does have meaning given the willing ignorance Trump supporters have showed.[/QUOTE] The problem is that your argument for why it's relevant consists of: - It can be used to represent a country. - It's useful when in war. Neither of these come anywhere close to proving that it's a valuable indicator of a person's knowledge about the current political situation concerning Russia. Your assertion that this has anything to do with Trump supporters also falls flat. Do the same thing at the DNC convention and you'll find that their flag knowledge is no better. This is what I mean. The prank is meaningless because it's trying to make a point about Trump supporters when it really applies to US citizens as a whole and the point is only that people don't know flags. If the point was to prove that US citizens don't know flags, then congratulations! It was very successful! If the point was anything more than that, then it was pointless.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51874218]Let's be honest here, the US flag, like the UK flag, is extremely easy to recognize. It stands out. The Russian flag is very similar to many other European tricolor flags. It's very easy to not recognize it unless you actually made a point of memorizing it.[/QUOTE] It's similar to other European tricolor flags in the sense that it indeed is a tricolor flag. Moreover, European geography isn't all that huge in schools here and most people still know what it looks. Come on, this is a really poor excuse.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51874057]I mean, it's funny, but it doesn't really have any meaning. I doubt the vast majority of Americans, whether liberal or conservative, have any idea what the Russian flag looks like.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't be that surprised if some people today thought the Russian flag was still the Hammer & Sickle
[QUOTE=sgman91;51874254]It was very successful! If the point was anything more than that, then it was pointless.[/QUOTE] If you're going to tell me it's pointless, it just feels like you're unwilling to accept an opposing argument honestly. So be it.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51874287]If you're going to tell me it's pointless, it just feels like you're unwilling to accept an opposing argument honestly. So be it.[/QUOTE] No you're unwilling to accept an opposing argument. (See, I can make useless statements like this too.)
while we were arguing about flags, Mike Pence [URL="http://www.jpost.com/American-Politics/Mike-Pences-Twitter-blunder-US-VP-uses-wrong-flag-to-represent-Israel-482567"]mistook the isreali flag for the nicaraguan flag[/URL] trump hires the best people /s
[QUOTE=sgman91;51874297]No you're unwilling to accept an opposing argument. (See, I can make useless statements like this too.)[/QUOTE] You said it's pointless to argue anything else other than US citizens don't know flags, so the whole argument with you IS useless as it'll lead nowhere.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51874321]You said it's pointless to argue anything else other than US citizens don't know flags, so the whole argument with you IS useless as it'll lead nowhere.[/QUOTE] That's IS my argument. If you disagree, then show how I'm wrong. So far, you've just pointed to a few very specific situations where knowing the flag is useful. You've done nothing to show that knowing the flag is essential to knowing about our current political situation with Russia.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51874164]I've never seen a pre-college, non-country specific, history class put any focus on a flag. Even the US flag is only mentioned based on the number of stars changing based on the number of states.[/QUOTE] ok but for about 15 years american students have to pledge allegiance to the flag every morning or so i hear.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51874065]Not know what a flag looks like is pretty irrelevant to your view of the world and the countries within it. We rarely even see the flags of other counties. It's more trivia knowledge than anything.[/QUOTE] which is more embarrassing, waving around a russian flag with trump on it or not knowing what the russian flag looks like
[QUOTE=Lolkork;51874091]why is the most powerful country in the world full of cretins?[/QUOTE] Because once you are at the top you have no incentive to improve your country and then society plateaus and declines, it happens with all superpowers after a while.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51874164]I've never seen a pre-college, non-country specific, history class put any focus on a flag. Even the US flag is only mentioned based on the number of stars changing based on the number of states.[/QUOTE] I have my grandmother's 4th grade reading textbook, copyright 1922 but assigned to my grandmother in 1935. My grandmother's reading list included Charles Dickens, George Eliot, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Lord Tennyson, Conan Doyle, John Burroughs, and the Bible, among many less-known contemporary and classic European writers. 2017: "High school graduates not ever having seen the Russian flag is not surprising." You have only yourselves to blame for everything that's going to happen from electing a muppet.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;51874454]I have a copy of my grandmother's 4th grade reading textbook, copyright 1922 but assigned to my grandmother in 1935. My grandmother's reading list included Charles Dickens, George Eliot, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Lord Tennyson, Conan Doyle, John Burroughs, and the Bible, among many less-known contemporary and classic European writers. 2017: "High school graduates not ever having seen the Russian flag is not surprising." You have only yourselves to blame for everything that's going to happen from electing a muppet.[/QUOTE] You won't hear me defend the education system. It's absolute crap. It's not Trump's fault, though. Obama, for example, created a massive array of stats that schools are judged on. Many of these have zero to do with the quality of the education, but are still used to judge individual school quality. We've pushed our education system towards a federally controlled system that tries to hit arbitrary statistics instead of actually teaching kids. Combine those problems with the breakdown of the US family and no one should be surprised in the horrible quality.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51874172]I would presume a basic level of curiosity considering how present they are in the news.[/QUOTE] Curiosity implies/requires an open mind.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51874481]You won't hear me defend the education system. It's absolute crap. It's not Trump's fault, though. Obama, for example, created a massive array of stats that schools are judged on. Many of these have zero to do with the quality of the education, but are still used to judge individual school quality. We've pushed our education system towards a federally controlled system that tries to hit arbitrary statistics instead of actually teaching kids. Combine those problems with the breakdown of the US family and no one should be surprised in the horrible quality.[/QUOTE] It's a real shame to see what's happened to the public education system. Comparing my time at elementary school from 1998-2004 to my little sister's time at the same elementary school from 2011-2017 is really sad. She's missing out on the high quality education I got to experience. The teachers didn't just teach you how to pass a standardized test. They actually taught you a curriculum you needed to succeed later in school and later in life. The teachers made sure the classroom was conductive to learning, instead of merely being a daycare center were students ran amok. The teachers actually cared about the students and challenged those who excelled in their courses. The parent-teacher organizations contributed to the well-being of the students instead of only the teachers. Principals and counselors thought about the students first, not the costs or lawsuits they could avoid. Whenever I entered my elementary school for the first time in 12 years to vote in the primaries, I became nostalgic. With the interior remodeling, all remnants of the school I had went to were gone. The only thing that remained was their status as a National Blue Ribbon school, a status earned when I went to school there, but not one they still deserve today.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51874481]We've pushed our education system towards a federally controlled system that tries to hit arbitrary statistics instead of actually teaching kids.[/QUOTE] And many US Conservatives are pushing for a state controlled system that's based on instilling religious values and blind patriotism instead of actually teaching kids. That, in my opinion, is actually far worse than what we have now. [QUOTE=sgman91;51874481]Combine those problems with the breakdown of the US family and no one should be surprised in the horrible quality.[/QUOTE] Elaborate on this one please. Whenever I hear someone talk about "the breakdown of the US family", it always ends with "because we let the gays marry" or something equally ignorant.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;51874567]Elaborate on this one please. Whenever I hear someone talk about "the breakdown of the US family", it always ends with "because we let the gays marry" or something equally ignorant.[/QUOTE] I mean that a huge number of kids now come from single family homes and/or homes that aren't in stable situations, especially in poorer areas. This means parents don't have time to be involved in their kid's education or many times just couldn't give a crap. My best friend is a high school teacher at a local public school. His single biggest frustration is the lack of parent involvement, even to the point of parents telling him to not call them about problems because they don't care. I also directly work with the alternative programs (continuation schools, social/emotional programs, counseling, etc.) in the district. The kids in these programs are essentially all from unstable home situations. They also use up a hugely disproportionate amount of district funds.
False flag operation by the Russian government.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;51874989]False flag operation by the Russian government.[/QUOTE] The fact that it took three pages for someone to drop a "false flag" pun is a shame.
[QUOTE=Trainbike;51874233]The news part is the most puzzling to me. I can [I]perhaps[/I] understand older people not being too savvy on flags. Particularly modern flags which may have changed since they would have been taught that kind of thing (The flag they'd associate with Russia having been the Soviet flag for instance). But are you telling me that CNN, Fox and whoever else never ever display a flag in the background or in the top corner or something when covering a story about a country?[/QUOTE] My mom had this issue. She thought the Russian flag was still the USSR one. Either way though I think the exact design or even recognizing the flag is fairly irrelevant. My question is this: Why didn't these people so much as even wonder what the flag's design was about? You'd think at least a few of them would want to know before waving it around. [QUOTE=lintz;51874347]ok but for about 15 years american students have to pledge allegiance to the flag every morning or so i hear.[/QUOTE] Personally I've never even seen a school that doesn't have a flagpole flying the American flag. [QUOTE=sgman91;51874481]You won't hear me defend the education system. It's absolute crap. It's not Trump's fault, though. Obama, for example, created a massive array of stats that schools are judged on. Many of these have zero to do with the quality of the education, but are still used to judge individual school quality. We've pushed our education system towards a federally controlled system that tries to hit arbitrary statistics instead of actually teaching kids. Combine those problems with the breakdown of the US family and no one should be surprised in the horrible quality.[/QUOTE] Trump is certainly not going to improve it at all though. In fact his choice in education for his cabinet seems like she'll only make things even worse. And Bush, with his No Child Left Behind rubbish, is more responsible for the current education situation than Obama. Though you are right in that Obama didn't particularly improve it either though.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o49aM47qlw&t=0s[/media] Related cause this was a thing around the CPAC. I think it is pretty funny.
[QUOTE=Nitro836;51873487]Conservatives don't need to prank liberals, though, because they make a fucking joke out of themselves all on their own.[/QUOTE] Oh! You meant that conservatives make a joke out of liberals! I thought you meant conservatives make a joke out of themselves. Which would certainly have been correct, especially given the context of this thread.
:snip:
[QUOTE=sgman91;51874065]Not know what a flag looks like is pretty irrelevant to your view of the world and the countries within it. We rarely even see the flags of other counties. It's more trivia knowledge than anything.[/QUOTE] regardless of our current relationship, the russian flag is fairly common to see in a lot of places hanging next to usually a german, french, italian and other flags, hell the college near me has them on the corner of the town square
Hackers went too far
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