California police worked with neo-Nazis to pursue 'anti-racist' activists, documents show - Polidicks

[editline]oh hamburgers[/editline] Oh shit there was another page.

Apparently spineless nazi sympathizers really still believe that they're pulling off some kind of impartial objective observer act by waggling their fingers at some nebulous imagined threat of far-left death squads roaming American streets and perpetually pretending that white supremacists catching beatdowns are proof that the left is just labeling any dissenter a nazi because Hammerskin Joe of the Traditionalist Workers Party wasn't technically wearing an armband.

[QUOTE=FZE;53124107]Apparently spineless nazi sympathizers really still believe that they're pulling off some kind of impartial objective observer act by waggling their fingers at some nebulous imagined threat of far-left death squads roaming American streets and perpetually pretending that white supremacists catching beatdowns are proof that the left is just labeling any dissenter a nazi because Hammerskin Joe of the Traditionalist Workers Party wasn't technically wearing an armband.[/QUOTE] Apparently overzealous nazi helpers still believe that they somehow have the high ground and are immune to everything because "nazis" by doing things that play right into the hands of nazis and gives them the institutional backing and victim narrative that they need to thrive and grow, because they they can't see 2 feet past their primitive emotions to actually see what the consequences of their actions are in reality.

I do feel like police response can be overzealous as hell and create violence out of protests which are largely peaceful beforehand, like Ferguson. I don't think the violence has been coming from one side.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;53124436]Apparently overzealous nazi helpers still believe that they somehow have the high ground and are immune to everything because "nazis" by doing things that play right into the hands of nazis and gives them the institutional backing and victim narrative that they need to thrive and grow, because they they can't see 2 feet past their primitive emotions to actually see what the consequences of their actions are in reality.[/QUOTE] We wrote down what happened when we tried fighting nazism with negotiation and then what happened when we tried fighting it with bayonets, nooses, and fire; this time some people have had the forethought to cut to the chase. Stepping up to bat for nazis out of sincere holier-than-thou liberalism that's actually buying the Munich Agreement for a second time or doing so out of thinly veiled alignment with their goals strangely produces no material difference in the advancement of their cause.

[QUOTE=FZE;53126145]We wrote down what happened when we tried fighting nazism with negotiation and then what happened when we tried fighting it with bayonets, nooses, and fire; this time some people have had the forethought to cut to the chase. Stepping up to bat for nazis out of sincere holier-than-thou liberalism that's actually buying the Munich Agreement for a second time or doing so out of thinly veiled alignment with their goals strangely produces no material difference in the advancement of their cause.[/QUOTE] Well, now I know how we get Russia to stop interfering with our elections. According to your own logic, we should just jump ahead to the thread of nuclear war because we wrote down what happened when we tried using negotiation and diplomacy, and we know what happened when we used the thread of nuclear weapons and war. I mean, let's cut to the chase here, right? There could be no consequences to skipping a whole bunch of nonviolent steps to try and resolve the situation, could there?

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;53126169]Well, now I know how we get Russia to stop interfering with our elections. According to your own logic, we should just jump ahead to the thread of nuclear war because we wrote down what happened when we tried using negotiation and diplomacy, and we know what happened when we used the thread of nuclear weapons and war. I mean, let's cut to the chase here, right? There could be no consequences to skipping a whole bunch of nonviolent steps to try and resolve the situation, could there?[/QUOTE] Russia has goals that are not supremacy through genocide. They as a state can exist independently of motivations that cause demonstrable harm to human life and have the capability to cooperate for mutual and collective betterment - diplomacy can produce a favorable outcome. Nazism does not have a reason to exist without the mission of exterminating non-whites, they are a group manifested from an idea that cannot be morally reconciled, not a state that could be persuaded to invest its resources in more productive and beneficial goals. The two are not comparable.

[QUOTE=FZE;53126192]Russia has goals that are not supremacy through genocide. They as a state can exist independently of motivations that cause demonstrable harm to human life and have the capability to cooperate for mutual and collective betterment - diplomacy can produce a favorable outcome. Nazism does not have a reason to exist without the mission of exterminating non-whites, they are a group manifested from an idea that cannot be morally reconciled, not a state that could be persuaded to invest its resources in more productive and beneficial goals. The two are not comparable.[/QUOTE] The fact that some users on this forum cannot see this obvious difference is telling.

Simply put: Nazism is ABOUT purging non-whites, and should itself be purged as an ideology.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;53124436]Apparently overzealous nazi helpers[/QUOTE] Are you sure you are talking about Antifa, because this reads like it's describing Trump and the Republicans, and there isn't too much overlap between the two.

[QUOTE=FZE;53126192]Russia has goals that are not supremacy through genocide. They as a state can exist independently of motivations that cause demonstrable harm to human life and have the capability to cooperate for mutual and collective betterment - diplomacy can produce a favorable outcome. Nazism does not have a reason to exist without the mission of exterminating non-whites, they are a group manifested from an idea that cannot be morally reconciled, not a state that could be persuaded to invest its resources in more productive and beneficial goals. The two are not comparable.[/QUOTE] What a fancy way of saying "violence is not the best way to solve problems". [QUOTE=Raidyr;53126404]Are you sure you are talking about Antifa, because this reads like it's describing Trump and the Republicans, and there isn't too much overlap between the two.[/QUOTE] Antifa: "We can't let them get institutional power!" Also Antifa: "We're going to use tactics that give the cops a reason to defend them and come after us!" Finally Antifa: "Why are the cops working with Nazis? UGH!" A 4 year old could find the glaring flaw in the logic that got them there.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;53126593] Antifa: "We can't let them get institutional power!" Also Antifa: "We're going to use tactics that give the cops a reason to defend them and come after us!" Finally Antifa: "Why are the cops working with Nazis? UGH!" A 4 year old could find the glaring flaw in the logic that got them there.[/QUOTE] Well I was just quoting Nazi's and white nationalists/supremacists who have repeatedly praised Trump's comments in the past. It seems like the institutional power of the White House, given carte blanche by a Republican party that has completely shed any illusions of morality or justice, is doing a lot more to help Nazis than Antifa is. To your point though from what the article seems to state is that some cops went above and beyond simply trying to prosecute demonstrators with crimes, and seemed to want to protect the Neo-Nazi's while trying to pin imaginary crimes on the people who had been stabbed by those Neo-Nazis. [QUOTE]Ayres’s reports noted that McCormack was armed at the rally with a knife. The officer’s write-up about an African American anti-fascist activist included a photo of him at the hospital after the rally and noted that he had been stabbed in the abdomen, chest and hand. Ayres, however, treated the protester like a suspect in the investigation. The police investigator recommended the man be charged with 11 offenses, including disturbing the peace, conspiracy, assault, unlawful assembly and wearing a mask to evade police. As evidence, Ayres provided Facebook photos of the man holding up his fist.[B] The officer wrote that the man’s “Black Power salute” and his “support for anti-racist activism” demonstrated his “intent and motivation to violate the civil rights” of the neo-Nazi group.[/B] He was ultimately not charged.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;53126593]What a fancy way of saying "violence is not the best way to solve problems".[/QUOTE] Somewhere down the line the art of trolling was lost and people started thinking that wasting everyone's time with threadless incoherent smug shitposting was the same thing. This is TPUSA's diaper protest in written form.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;53126654]Well I was just quoting Nazi's and white nationalists/supremacists who have repeatedly praised Trump's comments in the past. It seems like the institutional power of the White House, given carte blanche by a Republican party that has completely shed any illusions of morality or justice, is doing a lot more to help Nazis than Antifa is. To your point though from what the article seems to state is that some cops went above and beyond simply trying to prosecute demonstrators with crimes, and seemed to want to protect the Neo-Nazi's while trying to pin imaginary crimes on the people who had been stabbed by those Neo-Nazis.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/26/white-nationalist-rally-stabbings-california"]Yeah, because the demonstrators were completely innocent in this....[/URL] [QUOTE]Sacramento police did not immediately respond to requests for details. Harvey said the main fight broke out when people carrying sticks rushed into the rally area, a park by the capitol building. California highway patrol officers eventually broke up the fight, he said.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]The counter-protesters organized in part via Facebook, writing: “Anti-Fascist Action Sacramento does not believe in allowing hate to have a platform and we are calling upon the community to shut down their rally. Fighting fascism is a moral duty, not a political one.” One of their leaders, Yvette Felarca, told reporters after the clashes, “the Nazis are dangerous, and that’s why we need to take them on directly. Take them on head-on”. “We believe most people are good and are willing to stand up against racial hatred,” the organizers added on Facebook. “Our objective is to force the Nazis off our streets and to send a strong message that they are not welcome in society and especially Sacramento.”[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=FZE;53126715]Somewhere down the line the art of trolling was lost and people started thinking that wasting everyone's time with threadless incoherent smug shitposting was the same thing.[/QUOTE] The pot calling the kettle black: [QUOTE=FZE;53124107]Apparently spineless nazi sympathizers really still believe that they're pulling off some kind of impartial objective observer act by waggling their fingers at some nebulous imagined threat of far-left death squads roaming American streets and perpetually pretending that white supremacists catching beatdowns are proof that the left is just labeling any dissenter a nazi because Hammerskin Joe of the Traditionalist Workers Party wasn't technically wearing an armband.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;53126926][URL="https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/26/white-nationalist-rally-stabbings-california"]Yeah, because the demonstrators were completely innocent in this....[/URL] [/QUOTE] I [I]explicitly [/I]said the demonstrators committed crimes, with the [I]implication [/I]that prosecuting those crimes was what the cops should be doing. [QUOTE=me in the post you quoted]some cops went above and beyond simply trying to prosecute demonstrators with crimes [/QUOTE] [editline]12th February 2018[/editline] Cop's going after people hitting other people with sticks is one thing. Cops telling Nazis that showed up armed that they will protect them then trying to pin crimes on a stab victim that [I]whoa just happens to be black[/I] based on laughably little evidence is quite another.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;53120658]Antifa are extremists too, you know. Don't pretend they're good guys, they're not.[/QUOTE] Say what you want about Antifa (and there is plenty to say) but they are not pro-genocide. This false moral equivalence between Antifa and Nazis is ridiculous and needs to stop.

[QUOTE=FZE;53126145]We wrote down what happened when we tried fighting nazism with negotiation and then what happened when we tried fighting it with bayonets, nooses, and fire;[/QUOTE] Yeah, and apparently there are plenty of people who haven't read it, considering how many are advocating literally the exact behavior that allowed the Nazis to take power. Crack open a history book and tell me where you see small groups of counter-protesters effectively ending Nazi movements through violence. I'll give you plenty of examples where they unambiguously made things worse and it was state intervention, not a bunch of anarchists with molotovs, that solved the problem. Hitler himself praised Antifa's 1930s equivalents as instrumental to his rise to power. Fascist groups goading reactionaries into violence and portraying themselves as victims to get law enforcement on their side was a key step, and it's literally what's happening now per the OP. And you're bringing up history, having apparently learned nothing from it. Maybe you feel a nice sense of superiority for having simplistic convictions, but you might as well be a Nazi supporter for how willing you are to advance their cause. [QUOTE=Jim Morrison;53127197]This false moral equivalence between Antifa and Nazis is ridiculous and needs to stop.[/QUOTE] Then don't inexplicably inject it into statements that didn't make any equivalence. Problem solved.

I thought cali was extremely left wing? Wouldnt the cops lean towards antifa?

[QUOTE=Firetornado;53128563]I thought cali was extremely left wing? Wouldnt the cops lean towards antifa?[/QUOTE] California is the land of extremes. You have a massive concentration of diehard communists in the southern cities, and then you also get one of the largest neo-nazi/klan rallies that takes place almost yearly in Anaheim. Once you get outside of the southern cities, the political compass starts spinning.

[QUOTE=catbarf;53128343]Yeah, and apparently there are plenty of people who haven't read it, considering how many are advocating literally the exact behavior that allowed the Nazis to take power. Crack open a history book and tell me where you see small groups of counter-protesters effectively ending Nazi movements through violence. I'll give you plenty of examples where they unambiguously made things worse and it was state intervention, not a bunch of anarchists with molotovs, that solved the problem. Hitler himself praised Antifa's 1930s equivalents as instrumental to his rise to power. Fascist groups goading reactionaries into violence and portraying themselves as victims to get law enforcement on their side was a key step, and it's literally what's happening now per the OP. And you're bringing up history, having apparently learned nothing from it. Maybe you feel a nice sense of superiority for having simplistic convictions, but you might as well be a Nazi supporter for how willing you are to advance their cause.[/QUOTE] Yeah heaven forbid we instill white supremacist sympathies within law enforcement, that's definitely something that's purely a response to left-wing violence in the last 18 months and not the status quo in the United States for centuries.

[QUOTE=FZE;53128596]Yeah heaven forbid we instill white supremacist sympathies within law enforcement, that's definitely something that's purely a response to left-wing violence in the last 18 months and not the status quo in the United States for centuries.[/QUOTE] Ok like I agree that there's a lot of issues in regards to racism within LEO but I don't see what that has to do with his post.

[QUOTE=FZE;53126145][B]We wrote down what happened when we tried fighting nazism with negotiation and then what happened when we tried fighting it with bayonets, nooses, and fire; this time some people have had the forethought to cut to the chase. [/B]Stepping up to bat for nazis out of sincere holier-than-thou liberalism that's actually buying the Munich Agreement for a second time or doing so out of thinly veiled alignment with their goals strangely produces no material difference in the advancement of their cause.[/QUOTE] what like the spartacists???

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53128608]Ok like I agree that there's a lot of issues in regards to racism within LEO but I don't see what that has to do with his post.[/QUOTE] He stated that Hitler praised "Antifa's 1930s equivalents" (you know, the group, Antifa, with membership cards, that only exists in the year of our lord 2018) for being goaded into violence to advance the white supremacists' victim narrative and allow them to gain the sympathy of law enforcement, portrayed this as a key step in their rise to power, then compared it to the topic of the thread. Trying to prevent law enforcement from sympathizing with nazis now is locking the stable after the horse has bolted, that's already their raison d'être.

[QUOTE=FZE;53128619]He stated that Hitler praised "Antifa's 1930s equivalents" (you know, the group, Antifa, with membership cards, that only exists in the year of our lord 2018) for being goaded into violence to advance the white supremacists' victim narrative and allow them to gain the sympathy of law enforcement, portrayed this as a key step in their rise to power, then compared it to the topic of the thread. Trying to prevent law enforcement from sympathizing with nazis now is locking the stable after the horse has bolted, that's already their raison d'être.[/QUOTE] Okay, I see it now. At first it was kinda confusing

[QUOTE=FZE;53128619]He stated that Hitler praised "Antifa's 1930s equivalents" (you know, the group, Antifa, with membership cards, that only exists in the year of our lord 2018) for being goaded into violence to advance the white supremacists' victim narrative and allow them to gain the sympathy of law enforcement, portrayed this as a key step in their rise to power, then compared it to the topic of the thread. Trying to prevent law enforcement from sympathizing with nazis now is locking the stable after the horse has bolted, that's already their raison d'être.[/QUOTE] Actually, my point was that claiming that Antifa represents people who have learned from history is complete bullshit, and offered the OP as an example of history repeating itself as a direct result of Antifa's actions. To which you appear to have zeroed in on that example and only said the problem already existed before this, as if that justifies deliberately making the problem worse in a way that benefits literally nobody but Nazis. The best part is you sarcastically bringing up the fact that white supremacist sympathies already existed in law enforcement as if that invalidates the comparison, when the veteran-heavy dolchstoßlegende-believing Weimar police were very friendly to the Nazis from the outset. Reactionary violence still made it worse, so 'they're already friendly to white supremacists, it's too late to do anything different' is a demonstrably false objection. Anyone who actually cares about learning from history instead of just using the line as a throwaway justification should know this.

[QUOTE=catbarf;53128992]Actually, my point was that claiming that Antifa represents people who have learned from history is complete bullshit, and offered the OP as an example of history repeating itself as a direct result of Antifa's actions. To which you appear to have zeroed in on that example and only said the problem already existed before this, as if that justifies deliberately making the problem worse in a way that benefits literally nobody but Nazis. The best part is you sarcastically bringing up the fact that white supremacist sympathies already existed in law enforcement as if that invalidates the comparison, when the veteran-heavy dolchstoßlegende-believing Weimar police were very friendly to the Nazis from the outset. Reactionary violence still made it worse, so 'they're already friendly to white supremacists, it's too late to do anything different' is a demonstrably false objection. Anyone who actually cares about learning from history instead of just using the line as a throwaway justification should know this.[/QUOTE] Positively captivating, what's the remainder of the plan? Nazis say "let us spread our message of genocide", cops say "we're actually super into that already, we'll help you spread your message of genocide", liberals say "let them spread their message of genocide while we suss out a Clinton/Winfrey 2020 campaign to stop them once and for all". What's the moral high ground good people are supposed to take while nazis and cops march hand in hand in their streets using positions of authority to fabricate crimes to charge them with? What's the right course of action when nazis start beating and running over counter-protestors and the cops not only don't lift a finger to stop them, they testify that the counter-protestors were the ones who attacked first? Because we're there and the Red Army isn't coming.

[QUOTE=FZE;53129224]Positively captivating, what's the remainder of the plan? Nazis say "let us spread our message of genocide", cops say "we're actually super into that already, we'll help you spread your message of genocide", liberals say "let them spread their message of genocide while we suss out a Clinton/Winfrey 2020 campaign to stop them once and for all". What's the moral high ground good people are supposed to take while nazis and cops march hand in hand in their streets using positions of authority to fabricate crimes to charge them with? What's the right course of action when nazis start beating and running over counter-protestors and the cops not only don't lift a finger to stop them, they testify that the counter-protestors were the ones who attacked first? Because we're there and the Red Army isn't coming.[/QUOTE] [i]If only[/i] there existed countries that successfully [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Union_of_Fascists]quelled nationalist movements[/url], or had been [url=https://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/apr/24/exorcising-hitler-germany-frederick-taylor]reeducated after their nationalist movements were overthrown[/url]. Better yet, if only there were a [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American_Bund]prior domestic example[/url] we could use as an example. Or maybe if there were [url=https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/17/us/fbi-spying-white-supremacists-declassified/index.html]recent white nationalist movements[/url] that had been dismantled, we could repeat the same tactics. If only any of that had ever happened at any point in the 20th century, then we might have something to learn from. Nah, guess we can't learn from history, so we have no choice but to attack them at rallies and claim it's learning from history. That'll do it. Maybe start by lobbying Congress to direct federal law enforcement to investigate and infiltrate them, or to purge local law enforcement of [url=https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-investigated-white-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/]known infiltrators[/url]. Maybe monitor these groups' members and intervene when violence is planned, or go after their leaders for civil crimes to decapitate the movements. Maybe publicly identify them as hate groups, or go a step further and pass federal legislation to curb their influence. Maybe take a stab at addressing any of the social problems that make people vulnerable and sympathetic to nationalist causes. Maybe do literally any of the things that have actually worked, even against movements with far more support, and stop trying to defend the things that haven't. Do you actually give a shit about any of this? Because to me it sounds like you're just looking for excuses to punch people who deserve to be punched and defend those who do it, with actually fixing the problem being somewhere low on the priority list.

[QUOTE=catbarf;53129334]Maybe start by lobbying Congress to direct federal law enforcement to investigate and infiltrate them[/quote] [I]This[/I] Congress? Surely you can't be serious. [quote]to purge local law enforcement of [url=https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-investigated-white-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/]known infiltrators[/url].[/quote] Trump pardoning people who're doing exactly that sort of thing who are now running for Congress under GOP approval and presidential support shows an unwillingness to go after that in the higher levels of our nation. Further, police institutions are notoriously insular and protective of their membership. Getting them to open investigations into officers when they already hate opening investigations period is a large hurdle to start with. [quote]Do you actually give a shit about any of this? Because to me it sounds like you're just looking for excuses to punch people who deserve to be punched and defend those who do it, with actually fixing the problem being somewhere low on the priority list.[/QUOTE] It sounds to me like a man who's realizing that our options are being slowly and carefully removed by a state that doesn't care to address the fact that those options are being slowly and carefully removed. There's no new laws being passed against this -- merely the installation of people who can make the calls to not care. Might as well say 'we should trust that the EPA will correct itself'. It won't. Saying 'well get Congress to fix the EPA' is similarly useless because this congress couldn't give less of a shit as goes the membership of it that can actually put law into effect to get the EPA under control. This is the Congress that [I]refuses to impeach the President who abdicated his executive responsibility to them by refusing to enforce a law that they near-unanimously passed and which he signed into law[/I]. If you want this stuff fixed, the only course that's really left to you is either to change the people in Congress (which isn't immediate or even close to 'right now' and throughout which harm will continue to be dealt) or come at this from the local level because the higher levels of government have well-demonstrated that you can bring this evidence to them and they will proceed to willfully ignore it.

[QUOTE=catbarf;53129334][i]If only[/i] there existed countries that successfully [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Union_of_Fascists]quelled nationalist movements[/url], or had been [url=https://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/apr/24/exorcising-hitler-germany-frederick-taylor]reeducated after their nationalist movements were overthrown[/url]. Better yet, if only there were a [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American_Bund]prior domestic example[/url] we could use as an example. Or maybe if there were [url=https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/17/us/fbi-spying-white-supremacists-declassified/index.html]recent white nationalist movements[/url] that had been dismantled, we could repeat the same tactics. If only any of that had ever happened at any point in the 20th century, then we might have something to learn from. Nah, guess we can't learn from history, so we have no choice but to attack them at rallies and claim it's learning from history. That'll do it. Maybe start by lobbying Congress to direct federal law enforcement to investigate and infiltrate them, or to purge local law enforcement of [url=https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-investigated-white-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/]known infiltrators[/url]. Maybe monitor these groups' members and intervene when violence is planned, or go after their leaders for civil crimes to decapitate the movements. Maybe publicly identify them as hate groups, or go a step further and pass federal legislation to curb their influence. Maybe take a stab at addressing any of the social problems that make people vulnerable and sympathetic to nationalist causes. Maybe do literally any of the things that have actually worked, even against movements with far more support, and stop trying to defend the things that haven't. Do you actually give a shit about any of this? Because to me it sounds like you're just looking for excuses to punch people who deserve to be punched and defend those who do it, with actually fixing the problem being somewhere low on the priority list.[/QUOTE] Who is it you think is in a position to monitor or infiltrate these groups? To purge local law enforcement? To address underlying systemic societal issues? The United States government from literally the top down is at worst complicit in, frequently apathetic to, or at best prevented from acting against the rise of white nationalism. In another time and place this is when the federal government would send its best investigators to stomp out a ragtag skinhead club after one of their members killed somebody and elevated them to a legitimate threat, in 2018 America our elected leaders condemn their victims, shovel fuel onto the fire of bigotry, and demand fealty to the police - white supremacy isn't just a thing they're going to unwittingly let happen, [U]it's the plan.[/U] Can we vote them out? Christ I hope so, but while their biggest "opposition" (because let's not pretend the DNC [B]a.[/B] will prioritize society over their corporate donors any more than the GOP does now and [B]b.[/B] won't get as racist as they feel they need to in some harebrained scheme to capture the bigot demographic) slowly and agonizingly amputates its own feet with bullets and pours the sum of its efforts into hopelessly misguided campaigns on platforms that appeal to no one, the groups in power are redistricting minorities out of electorates and sending sheriff's deputies to polling places to enforce new flavors of Jim Crow law. This isn't some unforeseen new horror, it's the result the capitalist American machine was always engineered to produce.

[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53129355]If you want this stuff fixed, the only course that's really left to you is either to change the people in Congress (which isn't immediate or even close to 'right now' and throughout which harm will continue to be dealt)[/QUOTE] That is how a democratic republic works, the same as with any other societal problem. If your elected officials won't do anything about the problem on a national level, replace them with those who will. When white nationalists kill fewer people than lightning strikes per year I think we can survive to rectify the problem [i]without[/i] going for immediate catharsis and in doing so decrease the long-term odds. [QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53129355]or come at this from the local level because the higher levels of government have well-demonstrated that you can bring this evidence to them and they will proceed to willfully ignore it.[/QUOTE] Then come at it from a local level. Petition your local government to disallow marches. Rally your community to deny services to neo-Nazis. [url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/18/neo-nazis-tricked-into-raising-10000-for-charity]Embarrass them[/url] and subvert their cause. Can you really not think of a single way to oppose white nationalists at a local level besides showing up to their rallies to pick a fight? 'Congress isn't up for re-election right at this second, so I'm going to make the problem worse because at least I'm doing something' is terrible reasoning. Even if there were literally nothing else we could possibly do to combat white supremacists, playing into their game and feeding the narrative they use to go from a lunatic fringe to a serious political and societal threat is worse than doing nothing.