Girl, 8, wants to be 1st patient at SickKids transgender clinic - Polidicks

[QUOTE=DaysBefore;42570882]Because you're different from their societal norms[/QUOTE] Well that I get but it's not like me transitioning to female affects anyone's life. Or does a baby suddenly catch on fire every time I swallow my pills?

Isn't that actually incorrect? [QUOTE]In the end, the psychiatrist told the family to follow Wren’s lead — which meant he would begin taking hormone pills to suppress puberty. Eventually, Wren may decide to have sexual reassignment surgery when he becomes an adult at 18.[/QUOTE] If you're taking hormone pills to suppress puberty then you'd likely start taking them before puberty wouldn't you? Also with the way the world is changing (dietary changes, and the amount of chemicals in our food), from my understanding women can have puberty much earlier (at the age of 8). Do you really think its a good idea to be giving these kinds of medications to children that age? EDIT: here's a source for that quote: [URL="http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/transgender-child-11-goes-public-about-his-story-1.1706376"]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/transg...tory-1.1706376[/URL]

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42571248]EDIT: here's a source for that quote: [URL]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/transgender-child-11-goes-public-about-his-story-1.1706376[/URL][/QUOTE] Before your edit you asked if it's a good idea to be giving kids medication at that age. Yeah, why not? Every case is different. Those who are lucky enough to start HRT before puberty pass easier. And they will be happier and comfortable in their own skin earlier.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;42571274]Before your edit you asked if it's a good idea to be giving kids medication at that age. Yeah, why not? Every case is different. Those who are lucky enough to start HRT before puberty pass easier.[/QUOTE] I edited it to include what I originally said (the edit thing is messed up for some reason). I would like to know what the potential side effects are of an 8 year old (an 8 year old girl can have a period) taking these drugs. That is assuming the drugs do what they actually want once they become an adult; I imagine there are cases where they regret having taken them.

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42571248]Isn't that actually incorrect? If you're taking hormone pills to suppress puberty then you'd likely start taking them before puberty wouldn't you? Also with the way the world is changing (dietary changes, and the amount of chemicals in our food), from my understanding women can have puberty much earlier (at the age of 8). Do you really think its a good idea to be giving these kinds of medications to children that age? EDIT: here's a source for that quote: [URL="http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/transgender-child-11-goes-public-about-his-story-1.1706376"]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/transg...tory-1.1706376[/URL][/QUOTE] Hormone blockers and pills to introduce greater amounts of other hormones are not the same thing. I mean the fact of the matter is you already came into the discussion making assumptions about what they did, but by this same logic is it a good idea to be giving medications of any kind to any kid? I mean there's always side effects, and typically for this sort of medication especially you need to go through a psychological evaluation. Not to mention on top of that said evaluation is often weighted towards not approving you.

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42571288]I edited it to include what I originally said (the edit thing is messed up for some reason). I would like to know what the potential side effects are of an 8 year old (an 8 year old girl can have a period) taking these drugs.[/quote] What do you mean by side effects? Like potential bad stuff that can come from an FTM transboy taking testosterone? [img]http://i.imgur.com/vHsAO.png[/img] [quote]That is assuming the drugs do what they actually want once they become an adult; I imagine there are cases where they regret having taken them.[/QUOTE] There are but they aren't common.

[QUOTE=DaysBefore;42570882]Because you're different from their societal norms[/QUOTE] I don't think it's really as simple as "Ew, that guy's wearing a dress." I think it's more like most people are used to referring to others by their sex, and don't really see a distinction between their own sex and gender. They view someones desire to be referred to as if they were the opposite sex as just whimsy or delusion, and out of resentment of being told they're wrong for what they see as just correct identifying the persons sex like they have their whole lives, continue to do so just out of spite.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42569956]Interesting video.. I think that people should wait until they're teens before making decisions like this.[/QUOTE] An overwhelming majority of people get their gender identity at 2-3 years of age. Do you honestly understand your own argument? Please try to understand instead of being all wishy-washy about it.

[QUOTE=Megafan;42571032]I'll point this out once before anyone else says "oh you shouldn't be getting sex reassignment surgery at that age": She's not. No one does until adulthood. At the very most they're allowed to identify as their own gender and when they reach puberty take hormone blockers. At 8 you're not even doing the latter, which is not 'going on hormones' in the first place. So, please refrain from saying this in this thread and in future threads.[/QUOTE] please just paste this post on the top of SH forever

[QUOTE=joes33431;42570475]i'm not 100% sure of how much gender is inherent and how much is environmental (cultural), but i'd hope that it's purely a cultural thing. a genderless society would be neat, i'd think.[/QUOTE] Yeah real fucking ideal huh.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;42571819]Yeah real fucking ideal huh.[/QUOTE] White or black gender roles don't exactly benefit everyone. Thousands of women have been denied jobs (or even promotions), just because of the cultural roles associated with them - such as being the caretaker instead of the breadwinner.

[QUOTE=Smasher 006;42569592]Incoming shitstorm brace for impact page 20 here we come.[/QUOTE] Shields up, RED ALERT!

[QUOTE=Megafan;42571316]Hormone blockers and pills to introduce greater amounts of other hormones are not the same thing. I mean the fact of the matter is you already came into the discussion making assumptions about what they did, but by this same logic is it a good idea to be giving medications of any kind to any kid? I mean there's always side effects, and typically for this sort of medication especially you need to go through a psychological evaluation. Not to mention on top of that said evaluation is often weighted towards not approving you.[/QUOTE] I don't think it is a good idea to give young children medications which may be harmful (including all the bullshit ADD meds that get peddled) unless they have a serious medical issue which requires medication (i.e. a birth defect, blood disorder, etc). I don't personally believe that an 8 year old should be given these kinds of medications (I would view things differently if they were a hermaphrodite). These aren't just medications that adjust things for a few weeks, from what I understand they completely alter the way you will grow up. I think there are also bigger questions about what other effects these medications would cause (whether they are hormone blockers or hormones) later on in life. [editline]19th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;42571327]What do you mean by side effects? Like potential bad stuff that can come from an FTM transboy taking testosterone?[/QUOTE] I'd be interested where you sourced that from because from all I've read cancer is a side effects of these medications (however small the chance is). Things listed in the "possible increased risk" category seem extremely serious. I don't think its a good idea to set up 8 year old kids for the possibility of some of these side effects. [QUOTE]There are but they aren't common.[/QUOTE] I'm sure that most of the side effects of medications aren't common, but they are still side effects.

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42572349]I don't think it is a good idea to give young children medications which may be harmful (including all the bullshit ADD meds that get peddled) unless they have a serious medical issue which requires medication (i.e. a birth defect, blood disorder, etc)[/QUOTE] oh i'm sorry i didn't realize [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder]gender dysphoria[/url] isn't a significant medical issue let's just not do anything about the [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21612827]72% suicide rate[/url] because giving them hormone blockers might have some side effects sometimes

[QUOTE=Samg381;42569677]I personally find this whole gender-equality and "I can choose my gender" thing completely ludicrous.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Samg381;42569735]I may have phrased that wrong. I really just hate all the hype going on. I'm all for gender equality.[/QUOTE] what are you even saying, please complete a thought before you make posts like these [editline]19th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=nigerianprince;42572349]I don't think it is a good idea to give young children medications which may be harmful [/QUOTE] you're not a doctor, you dont really have any knowledge about this subject do you

Good for the kid. I hope that nothing medical is done until she's of age, for her sake. [editline]19th October 2013[/editline] I'm not really sure how this is news tho, we get an article like this every other/every day.

I wish people would realize that unless they informed themselves properly about this subject by reading scientific papers their opinion is pretty much worthless.

[QUOTE=Trogdon;42572581]oh i'm sorry i didn't realize [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder]gender dysphoria[/url] isn't a significant medical issue let's just not do anything about the [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21612827]72% suicide rate[/url] because giving them hormone blockers might have some side effects sometimes[/QUOTE] I like the second paragraph from that wikipedia article you referenced: [U]"Controversy exists as to whether GID is a mental disorder"[/U] "some side effects" listed like diabetes and cancer can actually kill a person, so I'm not sure how you could state that that makes it somehow a more viable option than suicide. [editline]19th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;42572909]you're not a doctor, you dont really have any knowledge about this subject do you[/QUOTE] Thanks for your medical opinion professor snape, but i'm sorry, are you trying to claim that cancer and the other side effects are somehow not side effects of these medications? and also that these medications do not cause irreversible changes to people? [editline]19th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=katbug;42572943]Good for the kid. I hope that nothing medical is done until she's of age, for her sake. [editline]19th October 2013[/editline] I'm not really sure how this is news tho, we get an article like this every other/every day.[/QUOTE] Well considering that the clinic gives hormone treatment to patients, it would seem logical that she is receiving medications which are making irreversible changes to her body. But never mind, because she is transgendered it means she will never get cancer of diabetes because transgender people are immune from all diseases on earth and 'passing' counts for more than anything else. [editline]19th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;42571274]Before your edit you asked if it's a good idea to be giving kids medication at that age. Yeah, why not? Every case is different. Those who are lucky enough to start HRT before puberty pass easier. And they will be happier and comfortable in their own skin earlier.[/QUOTE] I already replied to this, but I think its worth replying to again: I sincerely think lifelong medical conditions like type 2 diabetes (I know someone who died indirectly from this) and cancer (I know several people who have died from cancer) should be of more importance than someone 'passing'. As comfortable or 'lucky' as someone may be, they may be shaving their lifespan down dramatically.

you talk as if the side effects are going to happen 10/10 times it's their choice if they want to risk that small chance of negative side effects have a serious effect on their wellbeing, i know it all too well. it's emotionally and physically distressing having to deal with it, but by far i'd rather be taking that medication that has a small chance of doing something bad to me, over being depressed to the point of attempted suicide

Better not take aspirin because there's a chance you'll shit or vomit blood. There's side effects for everything. It doesn't mean it will happen.

he needs to be sent into a fucking actual clinic to cure whatever deeper (mental) illness there is, not some turn-me-into-the-opposite-thing-bullshit [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Transphobia" - Megafan))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=DrogenViech;42573807]he needs to be sent into a fucking actual clinic to cure whatever deeper (mental) illness there is, not some turn-me-into-the-opposite-thing-bullshit[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the doctors and psychologists talk to and assess these patients and decide whether its a legitimate case or someone having other mental issues that need treatment. Its not like some kid waltzes in and says I'm a little boy and they go to work straight away.

Always good to have a transgender moderator to ban everyone who disagrees with the concept of a kid choosing their gender or even understanding what that means. Crazy.

[QUOTE=alexguydude;42573926]Always good to have a transgender moderator to ban everyone who disagrees with the concept of a kid choosing their gender or even understanding what that means. Crazy.[/QUOTE] good to have a moderator that punishes idiots that spout transphobic arguments with no backbone to them [editline]19th October 2013[/editline] if you don't know much about the topic, wouldn't it be a good idea to just not say anything?

[QUOTE=alexguydude;42573926]Always good to have a transgender moderator to ban everyone who disagrees with the concept of a kid choosing their gender or even understanding what that means. Crazy.[/QUOTE]You don't get an opinion on the matter because it is a matter of fact. You are objectively wrong for saying this shit, and you've been coming in these threads long enough to know this. Don't like getting banned? Stop being a bigot. Easy solution!

[QUOTE=alexguydude;42573926]Always good to have a transgender moderator to ban everyone who disagrees with the concept of a kid choosing their gender or even understanding what that means.[/QUOTE] Um because it's not something you can disagree with because it's a fact that it isn't a choice? You can't say "I disagree homosexual people should be able to choose to be attracted to the same sex" (hint: it's just as much a choice as someones gender identity I.E. not a fucking choice) then whine about it when you get banned for homophobia.

[QUOTE=alexguydude;42573926]Always good to have a black rights moderator to ban everyone who disagrees with the concept of a nigger being smarter than a white person . Crazy.[/QUOTE] oh look, its just as equally retarded.

I'm just gonna say I don't think kids should be able to decide this, I think 16-18, somewhere in there, is a good age to allow them to decide.

did you read the thread at any point

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;42574256]I'm just gonna say I don't think kids should be able to decide this, I think 16-18, somewhere in there, is a good age to allow them to decide.[/QUOTE] and again, why not. they are evaluated for months. then even after they get accepted, they just get hormone blockers so they remain neutral gender till they are older. if they want to change their mind (which rarely happens to begin with) there is literally no permanent damage.