Muslim mob destroys Christian-owned businesses after Friday prayers - Polidicks

Jesus is considered a prophet in the koran you know

The double standards on facepunch make me ill. The second they see something like a Christian business/church/organization destroyed or burned the article gets swarmed with winners, then it turns into a giant Christianity hating circlejerk or some other religiously fueled debate.

Sucks that religion always has to lead to violence in the end. The teaching people good ideals and not to be a straight up dickhead is a good idea but when there's a few people believing in different gods saying the same fucking thing they have to kill each other.

That's because facepunch is filled with bigots. They cry about intolerant people yet are as hate-filled as the lowest redneck in the USA.

[QUOTE=J!NX;33565272]Well, same I suppose, but perspective and story wise very different. It'd be better to say one believer doesn't follow Allah, the other doesn't follow god. AKA, one doesn't fallow Islam, etc. That's the difference.[/QUOTE] Allah is actually Arabic for God. So in a sense, Christians do follow Allah. The difference is that Christians believe Jesus to be the son of God while Muslims believe him to be a prophet, much like Muhammad, and that he will be the one to start the Second Coming etc.. A lot of the differences/similarities are skewed by different things like the media, xenophobia, and culture differences. They're both Abrahamic religions though, so there are definite similarities. [editline]4th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Paravin;33566485]That's because facepunch is filled with bigots. They cry about intolerant people yet are as hate-filled as the lowest redneck in the USA.[/QUOTE] Completely true.

[QUOTE=Paravin;33566485]That's because facepunch is filled with bigots. They cry about intolerant people yet are as hate-filled as the lowest redneck in the USA.[/QUOTE] I think that's humans in general.

[QUOTE=Paravin;33566485]That's because facepunch is filled with bigots. They cry about intolerant people yet are as hate-filled as the lowest redneck in the USA.[/QUOTE] Don't you understand? This is different because all Christians are evil drains on society that do nothing except harm everyone and everything around them. They deserve all the hate, clearly.

[QUOTE=HolyCrusade;33566672]Don't you understand? This is different because all Christians are evil drains on society that do nothing except harm everyone and everything around them. They deserve all the hate, clearly.[/QUOTE] Your username is perfect for that post. In other news, Facepunch, I'm proud of you. [/sarc]

[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33565142]Seeing as god doesn't exist they can't believe in the same god. And the lore is different.[/QUOTE] So your faith is there is no god, theirs is that there is. Christians believe in Christ and Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet. You really don't need to attack people's beliefs on here, because your making atheists come off just like a christian extremist from the bible belt.

[QUOTE=HolyCrusade;33566672]Don't you understand? This is different because all Christians are evil drains on society that do nothing except harm everyone and everything around them. They deserve all the hate, clearly.[/QUOTE] You are being sarcastic right?

[QUOTE=Vandel;33567261]You are being sarcastic right?[/QUOTE] :downs:

You guys are fucking delusional, "If Christians do a protest and yell at gay people, It's bad, but if Muslims run around destroying peoples proprety, It's ok cause they arent Christians."

[QUOTE=zombays;33566575]I think that's humans in general.[/QUOTE] I'm human, and I'm not bigoted, what am I doing wrong?

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;33567441]I'm human, and I'm not bigoted, what am I doing wrong?[/QUOTE] You're not recognising your faults.

[QUOTE=zombays;33565818]Aaaaand that's why religion can't have nice things anymore.[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/11/22/north-carolina-church-no-more-weddings-until-gay-marriage-is-legalised/]nope[/url]

There are many things wrong with this post. And this is an unpopular position in FP anyways but... First off, anything that Pamela Geller says on her shithole Atlas Shrugged is twisted to push Islamophobia and should be ignored. She's a truly deplorable individual and deserves no consideration. Her interpretation of events are always skewed to push this whole idea of Islam as a barbaric religion and she doesn't give the real 'story'. Then again she is a blogger. But she is a blogger that is unfortunately taken seriously in both American and European circles in light of the minority communities and the nationalist groups lining behind her trying to say that they are not, in fact, in tolerant, but fighting an inherently 'cruel' religion. As Geller pushes out (as she does every fucking damn time) is, "I am sure the mainstream media reports will be along presently to tell us that this has nothing to do with Islam." That dumbs down the interpretation of everything in this event. It ignores, why did people do what they did? If it was only as simple as religious idiots telling uneducated people what to do then we'd have a simple way to solve this. But it isn't that simple. In the Kurdistan region there are two Islamic-oriented parties. The Kurdistan Islamic Movement (which is more on level with one of the power players in the region, the Kurdistan Democratic Party) and the Kurdistan Islamic Union, which is firmly opposed to both the KDP and the other major group, the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. As far as religion goes in the region the big problem is up until 20 years ago, as hard as it may be to believe, alcohol and these other 'vices' were not all that present. Even in businesses run by people who could care less about this, it was hard to receive due to trade disruptions the embargo brought in the 1990s. Now it is coming in. The embargos are gone and the Kurdish region in particular is booming economically, especially when compared to the rest of the country. This means a greater 'opening' to the world, with all the bad that may come with it. Along with this is the predictable corruption from the major groups- KDP and PUK- working in tandem with major western corporations that has bought them out (an unfortunate reality of many third world countries) that has created an economic condition where the gap between rich and poor is massive there. Why won't the "mainstream" media cover this as Geller pushes? It's not to be politically correct or 'defend' Islam as she claims in her rants about the 'islamification' of the US but rather, this is not news. Even people who live in the Kurdistan region was surprised by how these riots even escalated in the first place- it's not an accurate reflection of what is an 'average' day in the region or the tensions that exist. And it's hardly as simple as 'lol Muslims'. It's simplistic to even say these were solely 'christian' owned. As far as I can tell the only common strand between these businesses was that they were all operating 'underground' or rather without licence. From my look at Kurdish media (and I do know some of the language, this helps, which I think Geller doesn't know a word of my 'barbaric' language as it were...) and avoiding the politically charged commentary by pro-government and anti-government sources, you reveal a different situation. Zakho is an important 'border' town. This is because of the Ibrahim Khalil/ Habur River crossing which is the sole (recognized) crossing between Iraq and Turkey. This is a very important aspect of the Kurdistan region economy, if not the entire of Iraq, considering the clout Turkish firms have in the local economies. This can be seen by the level of activity on that crossing, with truck lines stretching for miles on either end at peak activity days. Predictably this has become a source of corruption. Administrators of this crossing have been pocketing money that should have been going to the people of the region. In Zakho there exists many businesses and hotels that cater to tourists, rich businessmen, and the like while the rest of the populace lives in rather piss poor conditions. This is replicated in much of the region. Combined with the shit education the region has (public schooling is still only at four hours...), this makes a condition where much of the 'poor', who constitute much of the population, are liable to be swayed by groups interested in making political gain. So we have the political tango in the Kurdistan region. The KDP and PUK both rely on 'historical' loyalties from their supporters, having people remember the 'sacrifices' of the past 50 years and the efforts of their leaders in this gain. The Goran political group set itself up to get people frustrated with the activities of the former two. Then a chunk of socialist groups who have seen better days. Then the Islamic parties. The Kurdistan Islamic Movement is mostly a pro-government outfit and doesn't make much proclamations in exchange for financial support. The Kurdistan Islamic Union on the other hand is solidly opposition and sees itself as similar to the Muslim Brotherhood of Syria, Egypt, and in general many other "Islamic" groups. They see their selves as similar to those even more when one considers they are working against 'entrenched' parties that have had a long role in the region's history that have degenerated into corruption and what ever. The Islamic Union has found a good audience- from both the elderly and the young. The elderly are dismayed by this perceived 'decay' of morals and lack of respect from the youth (how common this is everywhere...) and lash out at signs of this- bars, theaters, clubs, the new hotels, etc... As a point of example, my grandmother, though solidly KDP because of her connections to it, pretty much spouts what is common among the Islamic Union's agitation, in particular against alcohol. I remember an event last year going to visit the graveyard of my grandfather where she just exploded. Taking this as merely the usual elderly grieving I ignored it, but talking to an uncle who was with us told me she was ticked off with the abundance of beer cans in the graveyard. Looking around this was indeed the case- even within my grandfather's 'enclosed' graveyard, they had not merely dropped the can but 'tossed' it over the enclosure and into the grave itself. Not withstanding the severe disrespect this entails in the region, it highlighted a 'problem' in the town. This is a rather conservative city in the region (unfortunately) that doesn't look too highly on drinking. Drinking itself isn't banned but people look down upon it, and it is expected that drinking is done in a household or in a restaurant, bar, etc. The only legal restriction is of course against underage drinking- but like anywhere drink is easy to get and they do get their hands on it. But where to drink? Their folks will probably not tolerate them in the household, restaurants obviously'll not want them loitering when the 'grown men' are busy, no where really. So where do they go at night? Abandoned buildings, closed monuments, and of course, the graveyards. So they got the elderly angle. From the youth they go from another end- mostly economic. By and large in the region, unless you are connected to people with positions in the parties or in a major corporation, you are not going to go anywhere. Education is piss poor and there's a disconnect between the secondary level to the universities. Those with money send their kids to private schools while the public ones decay (even more extreme than what we see in western countries), leaving a lot of people, for all intents and purposes, uneducated. Most of the youth generation has turned out like this unfortunately. Job prospects are low for them, leaving little income for them and thus not much possibilities. Housing is abnormally expensive- new housing units are typically apartment towers (usually contracted to a Turkish firm) that are beyond the reach of these people, leaving them to either continue living with their parents or move into dilapidated housing. This is a very old region, so chances are they might even live in housing that is not properly wired for electricity, water, etc. There is next to nothing in the way of public services, which are chronically underfunded and not accessible to the people. All this in what is to be the most 'stable' and richest region in Iraq. With the massive trade from both Iran and Iraq, it is hardly not 'impoverished'. Never mind the substantial oil deposits! And yet much of the populace lives like that. This is very fertile ground for agitation by political groups- and this is what pretty much happened in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Yemen, etc., with their specific differences of course. I could go on and on with the problems, but long story short, it makes for a situation where many people are impoverished and the "Islamic" parties can move in to benefit. The Islamic Union, like other similar parties in the Middle-East, receives aid from Saudi Arabia and other peninsula kingdoms which puts them in a better footing than other opposition groups. They are able to provide their flock with food, healthcare, education, etc. that establishes them among the people. This gives them influence and they like to flex it. This isn't the first time there was a problem between supporters of the KIU and the KDP or PUK. A few years back I recall another event which turned in the same rhetoric, and ended with the response that ended with a mob targeting the KIU's HQ in Duhok (another, much larger city near Zakho). This is political posturing between the KIU against the KDP. It can rally people against this perceived corruption and highlight the 'decay' under them- be it the types of businesses that sprouted up in the past 10 years of the economic conditions among their supporters. As far as I can tell the original 'sermons' were purportedly a call for the banning of the sale of alcohol and massage parlors, but that is what the cleric says- I'm not entirely sure what happened in their Friday services and depending on which source you go to, you'll get different answers. What ever the case, it motivated a group of people to go on this burning and looting rampage, followed by the 'response' by what was more than likely KDP-backed mobs and militiamen attacking the KIU's HQ in Zakho. But what happened I probably won't really know. My family is solidly pro-KDP and while spout what ever their sources push. The opposition news on the other hand has chosen to focus more on the attack on the KIU's HQ rather than the riots that preceded it to highlight a sign of the KDP's 'brutish' tactics against opposition groups. For example (English news sources are difficult to find... so excuse what translations they may have on their English pages) These first two sources are pro-government. The first one more so. [url]http://peyamner.com/details.aspx?l=4&id=258074[/url] [url]http://aknews.com/en/aknews/4/276168/[/url] The following two are more critical if not opposition, for the most part. [url]http://www.rudaw.net/english/kurds/4199.html[/url] [url]http://kurdistantribune.com/2011/kiu-opposition-party-hq-set-fire-zhako/[/url] And you see two different interpretations. In the former, the KIU was being irresponsible with its calls against the 'vices', and regrettable as it was, the attacks on their party HQs was a response to that. The opposition ones on the other hand focus on the attack on the party HQ more as a 'victim' of KDP's political domination and intolerance for opposition, using the rioting as a cover. Point being, is this as simple as 'lol religion'? I'm not much religious my self but simple crediting the cause of one event to solely religion while ignoring the political, economic, and social aspect is simplistic. What happened in those settlements is part of an ongoing problem in the region with political tensions, especially as it nears the next cycle of parliamentary elections, as they begin dealing and scheming with one another, and having (unfortunately) shows of force.

[QUOTE=MercZ;33567651] Combined with the shit education the region has (public schooling is still only at four hours...), this makes a condition where much of the 'poor', who constitute much of the population, are liable to be swayed by groups interested in making political gain. [/QUOTE] I won't be reading your essay, should have saved it for your 4 hours of school tomorrow and frankly, I find any insanely religious person annoying because they don't use common sense, logic, or do anything to help themselves. They're so politically correct that they bitch when other people aren't as politically correct around them. (if someone cusses on T.V they throw a shit fit and write a letter to the tv station) Hell, my Christian grandmother refuses to watch a frame of any Harry Potter movie to date "illgotohellifiwatchit" (she cried when she found out I had watched it, cried because my mother wouldn't let her get me baptized at birth) but she'll pay for a family visit to one of the Narnia films.

[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33565142]Seeing as god doesn't exist they can't believe in the same god. And the lore is different.[/QUOTE] people like you give us atheists a bad name

[QUOTE=Mr. N;33566417]The double standards on facepunch make me ill. The second they see something like a Christian business/church/organization destroyed or burned the article gets swarmed with winners, then it turns into a giant Christianity hating circlejerk or some other religiously fueled debate.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=SoaringScout;33565519]Explain to me how this a good thing, because all of you are looking really fucking childish by cheering on these people for destroying businesses JUST because they're Christian-owned. Muslim-owned = HOW COULD YOU THIS IS SICKENING Jewish-owned = OH MY GOD YOU SICK FUCK TOO SOON Atheist-owned = EXECUTION!!!! RIGHT NOW!! Christian-owned = Way to go! You guys are my heroes![/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Paravin;33566485]That's because facepunch is filled with bigots. They cry about intolerant people yet are as hate-filled as the lowest redneck in the USA.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, but who are you talking about? I haven't seen a single post that's "cheering this on."

[QUOTE=Lanopo;33563351]Yayyyyy... Good job middle-east..[/QUOTE] Because the act of a minority of people reflects the attitude of an entire region.

[QUOTE=WeekendWarrior;33569782]Because the act of a minority of people reflects the attitude of an entire region.[/QUOTE]Are you implying that majority of americans are stupid?

[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33569810]Are you implying that majority of americans are stupid?[/QUOTE] No, that would be rather harsh and pretty wrong.

[QUOTE=Taishu;33569239]I'm sorry, but who are you talking about? I haven't seen a single post that's "cheering this on."[/QUOTE] It's rather a response to every single thread that has been about Christianity here. If you count this one - the ratings, since they can be considered an opinion as much as a post.

[QUOTE=J!NX;33565243]"Allah" =/= "God" [/QUOTE] Allah is just god in arabic. Even christian and jewish arabs call god, allah...

There is no point saying different religists believe in different Gods. It's all the same symbol regardless of what anyone wants to think.

[QUOTE=Stick it in her pooper;33568336]I won't be reading your essay, should have saved it for your 4 hours of school tomorrow and frankly, I find any insanely religious person annoying because they don't use common sense, logic, or do anything to help themselves. They're so politically correct that they bitch when other people aren't as politically correct around them. (if someone cusses on T.V they throw a shit fit and write a letter to the tv station) Hell, my Christian grandmother refuses to watch a frame of any Harry Potter movie to date "illgotohellifiwatchit" (she cried when she found out I had watched it, cried because my mother wouldn't let her get me baptized at birth) but she'll pay for a family visit to one of the Narnia films.[/QUOTE] No one's forcing you to read it, I don't understand why you had to make it seem like I'm 'making' people read my post. (I don't go to 'school' anymore either, working and taking what classes at the university I can...) Just got to keep in mind that like with anything else, it's not as simple as to chalk it up to solely one cause and leave it at that. Geller, for what it's worth, gets a good deal of money on this piss poor blog of hers and is invited to political events in this country and treated as a serious political commentator. All for having this idiotic blog. Anyone can take a few more seconds to look up and see how this issue was tied into other issues in the locality. That's what one should do when looking at these events. As much as I would like to make fun of people for being closeminded religious ideologues (and oh I do), it doesn't really bring one much closer to finding a solution.

[QUOTE=Stick it in her pooper;33568336]I won't be reading your essay, should have saved it for your 4 hours of school tomorrow and frankly, I find any insanely religious person annoying because they don't use common sense, logic, or do anything to help themselves. They're so politically correct that they bitch when other people aren't as politically correct around them. (if someone cusses on T.V they throw a shit fit and write a letter to the tv station) Hell, my Christian grandmother refuses to watch a frame of any Harry Potter movie to date "illgotohellifiwatchit" (she cried when she found out I had watched it, cried because my mother wouldn't let her get me baptized at birth) but she'll pay for a family visit to one of the Narnia films.[/QUOTE] So to sum up your post: didn't read post, i hate intelligent discussion, so ima rant on about religious fanatics and something about my grandma

[QUOTE=SoaringScout;33565519]Explain to me how this a good thing, because all of you are looking really fucking childish by cheering on these people for destroying businesses JUST because they're Christian-owned.[/QUOTE] no-one's done that, stop crying wolf.

[QUOTE=J!NX;33565243]"Allah" =/= "God" [/QUOTE] Uh, yes it fucking does mean equal god. It fucking MEANS god.

[QUOTE=Stick it in her pooper;33568336]I won't be reading your essay, should have saved it for your 4 hours of school tomorrow and frankly, I find any insanely religious person annoying because they don't use common sense, logic, or do anything to help themselves. They're so politically correct that they bitch when other people aren't as politically correct around them. (if someone cusses on T.V they throw a shit fit and write a letter to the tv station) Hell, my Christian grandmother refuses to watch a frame of any Harry Potter movie to date "illgotohellifiwatchit" (she cried when she found out I had watched it, cried because my mother wouldn't let her get me baptized at birth) but she'll pay for a family visit to one of the Narnia films.[/QUOTE] great job on that post, typing it up and all, I see your elementary school education really pays for itself. Sadly I didn't read it, shouldn't saved it for your 45 minutes of preschool tomorrow. [QUOTE=Sickle;33571049]Uh, yes it fucking does mean equal god. It fucking MEANS god.[/QUOTE] I meant it more around the philosophical perspective of people who follow god VS Allah, not direct. Allah [i]obviously[/i] means god, didn't mean it purely in that way. Though I probably should've made this more clear and not stated it directly that way, but those who say Allah don't have the same direct beliefs than those who say God, it may be the same, but the ideology is different. So pretty much, Allah =/= god in the way that they're not defined the same... or something.