[QUOTE=Black;50585209]He's going the Chomsky route. Yeah, she is bad, but Trump is much worse. And haven't it historically been shown that voting third party increases Republican chances?[/QUOTE]
I think Noam would sit out of this paradox election.
Ive been listening to bernies tone lately and although he's reiterated not running 3rd party, i feel like he might. Almost half of registered voters are independent so he has a really good chance of splitting the vote.
[QUOTE=orgornot;50585602]
This could be a speech from today and you wouldn't know the difference.
[/QUOTE]
Trump kept flirting with the presidency as a publicity stunt. It's the same reason he went hardcore on the birther thing until Obama called him out in person and embarrassed him at the correspondent's dinner. He was raised in the tabloid environment of New York City, grappling with the likes of the New York Post, the Daily News, and every other tabloid there that peddles in this kind of nonsense. He knows exactly what to say and when to say it to keep the spotlight on him, yet you seem to have built him up into this Cincinnatus like figure whose only concern is serving his country.
[QUOTE=cody8295;50585695]I think Noam would sit out of this paradox election.
Ive been listening to bernies tone lately and although he's reiterated not running 3rd party, i feel like he might. Almost half of registered voters are independent so he has a really good chance of splitting the vote.[/QUOTE]
Bernie shouldn't go independent to split the vote, that'll give Trump more of a chance to win. And that's exactly why he won't. either.
[QUOTE=Rocko's;50585744]Bernie shouldn't go independent to split the vote, that'll give Trump more of a chance to win. And that's exactly why he won't. either.[/QUOTE]
Yea yea its been said a million times. But if the dnc is gonna pick an unelectable candidate anyways then bernie wont be at fault for trying to win. Its the dncs fault entirely if trump wins, regardless of vote splitting
[QUOTE=cody8295;50585759]Yea yea its been said a million times. But if the dnc is gonna pick an unelectable candidate anyways then bernie wont be at fault for trying to win. Its the dncs fault entirely if trump wins, regardless of vote splitting[/QUOTE]
"more people voted for Clinton so she's not electable"
[QUOTE=cody8295;50585759]Yea yea its been said a million times. But if the dnc is gonna pick an unelectable candidate anyways then bernie wont be at fault for trying to win. Its the dncs fault entirely if trump wins, regardless of vote splitting[/QUOTE]
DNC entirely at fault for Trump victory, and not the people actually voting for him.
Bernie wins over Trump in general election polls by a large margin.
Hillary does not.
DNC picks the candidate.
[QUOTE=orgornot;50586011]Bernie wins over Trump in general election polls by a large margin.
Hillary does not.
DNC picks the candidate.[/QUOTE]
Large margins where? She's been leading him in polls for over a week now since all of his catastrophes.
[QUOTE=orgornot;50585239]Well, it's official: he just confirmed all the cuck memes people say about him as true.
Clinton represents everything that supporters of his movement hate. And now he's bowing down to her and the establishment.
Trump is the only hope left for America.[/QUOTE]
youre a massive wacko
Orgornot repeats verbatim Trump rhetoric. I don't think I've ever seen him use the word "Hillary" without preceding it with "Crooked." He just spouts exactly what Trump says over and over, verbatim, without an ounce of critical thinking - just repetition of the memes and the cuck and the "tells it like it is" and the "genuine candidate" and the "crooked hillary." No analysis of policy, no thought. Memes.
It's like talking to a brick wall with Trump's face painted on it. Flat, boring, and won't back down unless you hit it with a goddamn wrecking ball.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50585830]"more people voted for Clinton so she's not electable"[/QUOTE]
More people in an undemocratic primary which disenfranchises most voters, sure. And even then, the exit polls and the DNC's position on exit polls says a lot about the validity of the primary.
Besides we all know that popular vote is irrelevant in a representative "democracy"
[QUOTE=orgornot;50586011]Bernie wins over Trump in general election polls by a large margin.
Hillary does not.
DNC picks the candidate.[/QUOTE]
By DNC do you mean the 3 million more votes Clinton had cast for her over Sanders?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50585248]What, and Trump does represent them? Who did you expect him to vote for?[/QUOTE]
Third party or none
[editline]24th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50585404]He's not going to endorse Stein as that would split the vote and gain Trump a better time in November.
Remember orgornot, his goal is to defeat Trump, not help Clinton win.[/QUOTE]
This is stupid though
If everyone treats it that way no wonder third party never makes it
[QUOTE=Maegord;50586426]By DNC do you mean the 3 million more votes Clinton had cast for her over Sanders?[/QUOTE]
By DNC he means the organization that plotted to disenfranchise voters and prop up their own interests long before the first vote was counted (or thrown away, not sure which)
[QUOTE=orgornot;50585239]Well, it's official: he just confirmed all the cuck memes people say about him as true.
Clinton represents everything that supporters of his movement hate. And now he's bowing down to her and the establishment.
Trump is the only hope left for America.[/QUOTE]
Every post you make is like a Bosch painting. A hideous mess of a masterpiece.
[QUOTE=orgornot;50585328][URL="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckservative"]You do realize it has a real definition in politics, right? Meaning someone who sells out to the other side and abandons the platform they claim to stand on.[/URL]
And I merely said that people who called him cuck may have a point as he has just proven.[/QUOTE]
Glad we finally know you got your love of Trump from the same place you got that word: /pol/
[editline]24th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=cody8295;50586197]More people in an undemocratic primary which disenfranchises most voters, sure. And even then, the exit polls and the DNC's position on exit polls says a lot about the validity of the primary.
Besides we all know that popular vote is irrelevant in a representative "democracy"[/QUOTE]
Why do I have a feeling if Sanders won you wouldn't be whining that primaries are undemocratic.
[QUOTE=plunger435;50586560]
Why do I have a feeling if Sanders won you wouldn't be whining that primaries are undemocratic.[/QUOTE]
Because the only thing you know about me is that I support Sanders. I would still care if voters rolls were being purged, if poll workers were still giving voters the wrong ballots, if the camp I support was sending out emails telling voters to go to the wrong poll or giving them other misinformation.
[QUOTE=plunger435;50586560]Glad we finally know you got your love of Trump from the same place you got that word: /pol/
[editline]24th June 2016[/editline]
Why do I have a feeling if Sanders won you wouldn't be whining that primaries are undemocratic.[/QUOTE]
I think that even if Sanders got in that nothing would really change. The government is far, far more broken than people think and a nice president isn't going to fix any of it. You have to change how the entirety of politics is carried out, starting with campaign donations and the party system itself. And that's not going to change, ever. It's what gets politicians where they are now. Fixing that would be shooting themselves in the foot, because most politicians get into office because they know how to play the political game.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50586448]This is stupid though
If everyone treats it that way no wonder third party never makes it[/QUOTE]
It's stupid but its a result of the mechanics of our voting system, not people "treating it that way". People treat it that way because it's a mathmatical reality in first past the post voting systems, and it doesnt look like we're getting anywhere near a more advanced voting system soon.
[editline]24th June 2016[/editline]
Im getting extremely of tired of seeing "well bernie is more similar to hillary than trump so any bernie supporter who votes for trump is an idiot" posts. It's a failure of logic on your part, I don't hold the point of view i'm going to describe for several reasons but i think people who disregard it are missing the entire point of our election system.
Every individual gets to decide which parts of a candidate's platform holds priority for them. Many people value bernie's anti establishment and perceived lack of corruption more than his detailed policies. Those people, if they perceive trump as less corrupt than hillary, should be voting for trump. People get to decide what they vote for, and candidate worship is insanity. Just because someone you supported wants to vote for someone else doesnt mean your a hypocrite, or an idiot, or a "bernie bro" what ever the popular insult is thesedays.
[QUOTE=orgornot;50585412]Because the very definition of that word is ridiculous: "a man explaining something to a woman".[/QUOTE]
And the word "cuck" is used to insult someone's manhood, which is childish and stupid. There's no political usage, just far-alt-right-wingers who want to believe they're superior to everyone else.
[QUOTE=cody8295;50586666]Because the only thing you know about me is that I support Sanders. I would still care if voters rolls were being purged, if poll workers were still giving voters the wrong ballots, if the camp I support was sending out emails telling voters to go to the wrong poll or giving them other misinformation.[/QUOTE]
I call bullshit. If Sanders had won, you wouldn't give an ounce of a shit about voter issues involving the primaries.
My evidence? You keep harping about Sanders "maybe" winning primaries after the vote has been cast at the state conventions - something very undemocratic, yet something you hope for just for the sake of a Sanders victory.
You don't give a shit about democracy or voter's rights, you only care about Sanders winning.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50585202]Read: This is not an endorsement. This is as much as him simply saying "I won't be voting for Trump".[/QUOTE]
Voting for someone is literally the strongest form of endorsement though
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50589357]I call bullshit. If Sanders had won, you wouldn't give an ounce of a shit about voter issues involving the primaries.
My evidence? You keep harping about Sanders "maybe" winning primaries after the vote has been cast at the state conventions - something very undemocratic, yet something you hope for just for the sake of a Sanders victory.
You don't give a shit about democracy or voter's rights, you only care about Sanders winning.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, while I'm not necessarily concerned about defending or agreeing with him, I do think that Bernie winning means a lot more than just winning. Bernie had a lot of cards stacked against him from the very beginning, and him winning means overcoming a lot of political nonsense. Clinton knows how to play the political game and plays it well, and while he's still playing the same game, I think he has a more honest approach and wants to get rid of all of the unfair advantages that people like Clinton and other candidates abuse for campaign power - he was legitimately the only candidate I was interested because of it. And if I do get to a ballot, I'll put in my vote for Bernie just because I legitimately don't care about the other candidates - either one could win in my opinion. Clinton is status quo (I mean why would she want any different - status quo is what gets her into office), Trump is a monkey wrench, and America will continue to fail either way.
Dunno, Bernie's a seemingly more honest guy and getting an honest guy of this kind into the primaries is far more noteworthy than getting Clinton in. People might call me butthurt for it, whereas I don't think I really cared to begin with until Bernie's campaign. And now I'll probably just return to not really paying attention to the campaign outside of hearsay or maybe some John Oliver/Bill Maher. What I [I]will[/I] pay attention to are senators and representatives - people who are arguably way more important than the president.
[QUOTE=cody8295;50585695]I think Noam would sit out of this paradox election. [/QUOTE]
Funny you say that, because Noam made [URL="https://chomsky.info/an-eight-point-brief-for-lev-lesser-evil-voting/"]an entire article about why the left should take Clinton.[/URL]
I tend to criticize those who berate Chomsky while having never read the actual words he said, but I find it strange that apparently Chomsky supporters also don't read what he says.
[QUOTE=orgornot;50585239]Well, it's official: he just confirmed all the cuck memes people say about him as true.
Clinton represents everything that supporters of his movement hate. And now he's bowing down to her and the establishment.
Trump is the only hope left for America.[/QUOTE]
You're like a walking caricature of stupidity in almost every post you make. Advocating killing innocents, advocating torture, advocating racial profiling, and now this. I truly pity you.
There's a lot of assuming going on here, unless I'm missing some stuff that was said by orgornot and cody8295 at some point.
Assuming meaning saying who/what someone is by knowing who they support.
Lets start good things from happening
[QUOTE=daschnek;50590472]Funny you say that, because Noam made [URL="https://chomsky.info/an-eight-point-brief-for-lev-lesser-evil-voting/"]an entire article about why the left should take Clinton.[/URL]
I tend to criticize those who berate Chomsky while having never read the actual words he said, but I find it strange that apparently Chomsky supporters also don't read what he says.[/QUOTE]
I love what Chomsky and Sanders have to say and they are influences in my life, but I don't care who they're telling me to vote for. Thanks for the article though, I wonder if Chomsky will actually vote for her
[QUOTE=cody8295;50591674]I love what Chomsky and Sanders have to say and they are influences in my life, but I don't care who they're telling me to vote for. Thanks for the article though, I wonder if Chomsky will actually vote for her[/QUOTE]
So you'll be voting for somebody who shares your same sociopolitical viewpoints and you agree with and think would run the country well if they were president then I'm assuming?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50591954]So you'll be voting for somebody who shares your same sociopolitical viewpoints and you agree with and think would run the country well if they were president then I'm assuming?[/QUOTE]
Again, for the 20th time, I'm voting based on the actions of the candidates before they started positioning for the oval office
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