• Changes in Minecraft EULA prevent donator perks and features
    172 replies, posted
Heres how i stand on it: Although it's unfair to charge for MC Items (Horses, pet creepers, more wood, diamonds, etc) it's nothing to get worked up over. Everyone wants a way to make profit or keep paying for their server. Some of these servers are actually pretty fun. The only major issue is for hosting companies. We will be loosing half if not over 75% of our income/clients because they cannot collect donations in the manor they used to. Because lets face it; no one donates for nothing.
Alright, so how are some people not agreeing with this decision? Some servers are restricting you from parts of the game and you must pay more to access them. The developers are pissed and are going to fix this. What's not to agree with? Servers that do this are basically scamming you.
I don't know how many people realize that most servers don't charge anything for vanilla stuff. This mostly affects custom servers with custom gamemodes. Donations don't imply tax free money, almost every server that does it goes through paypal and thus is taxed as much as buying something would be. You have to get a legal document proving you're a charity to be able to get tax free donations from paypal. Donations aren't always tax-free, mate.
I completely agree with the spirit of this change. Servers should be able to turn a profit if they charge for hosting. But P2W in every other server is unacceptable and targets the younger fans of the game. Now we'll see how the legalese works out.
[QUOTE=Adamnetwork;45016701]Heres how i stand on it: Although it's unfair to charge for MC Items (Horses, pet creepers, more wood, diamonds, etc) it's nothing to get worked up over. Everyone wants a way to make profit or keep paying for their server. Some of these servers are actually pretty fun. The only major issue is for hosting companies. We will be loosing half if not over 75% of our income/clients because they cannot collect donations in the manor they used to. Because lets face it; no one donates for nothing.[/QUOTE] I think people are forgetting that donations are there to top up what should be otherwise a reliable fund for the person that is hosting. Minecraft hosting is absurd for the resources required for it and frankly this is only a good thing because it aims to provide a base experience where you don't have to pay to win. TF2 had similar issues with places like saigns and programmes like pinion. Whilst there are other outstanding issues at the moment (see quickplay) it's overall improved the experience for newer players. Edit: Also just as a headsup, the charges Paypal apply to you on a transaction are [U]Paypal charges, not taxation. [/U] You still need to independently track and manage taxation.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;45015738]Noones going to donate for nothing.[/QUOTE] Then they can only blame themselves for not giving enough of a shit about the server to keep it running.
I really hate to play devils advocate here, but a lot of servers would die off without donations. Some make more than they'll ever need which isn't a rare occurrence but some servers barely manage to break even. While I don't necessarily advocate for selling in-game items like diamonds for donation cash its sometimes necessary to keep servers running, people will NEVER donate for nothing. I run a community for garry's mod that currently accepts donations for things that we don't consider game-breaking such as new player models or heads being added to the server (it's roleplay so people jerk off over model variation.) but at the end of the day, after I pay the guy porting models and we spend hours getting stuff people donate for to work ingame, we still barely manage to break even with server costs being high as per usual doing to the amount of DDoS that we are hit with on a daily basis and the fact that the website is expensive due to us streaming music off of it.
Not every fucking server owner out there for minecraft can make there own income which is why people tend to spend ages getting the money to pay for the first month then hoping on actually getting donations to fund the server because they can't get funds themselves so easily. I've worked with hosting company's and was even a CO owner of hosting company and the amount of people that relied on donations was sad and the thing is most of them are reasonable age too and even have Jobs in real life but they've got other shit to spend it on aka House/Food etc. Ya some of you may say oh if you can't pay for the server why run it, Well doesn't everyone want the chance to run a server once and see how it goes? Plus alot of people these days love being in chat in the first place and personally it does feel kind of nice. I've seen alot of people host there servers and only want to host it because they love to see people enjoying themselves etc, It just feels nice to make something that people enjoy :/ . Ps. Personally I do it and I've advised people that if you've got extra money from donations just simply start keeping payments for the next few months so rather then keeping the money you need JUST for next month you kept some for the second month and 3rd etc so then you wont be worried if donations drop all of a sudden.
[QUOTE=BigBadWilly;45017034]Ya some of you may say oh if you can't pay for the server why run it, Well doesn't everyone want the chance to run a server once and see how it goes? [/QUOTE] Yeah, but it's about sustainability. If I can't afford the costs to run a shop, I don't open a shop. If I can't afford the costs to get a car, I don't get a car. It's as simple as it goes. You can't sustain it right now? Don't do it, and wait.
[QUOTE=Blind Lulu;45016900]Cool so this means the only active NA Magic Farm 2 server I know of might end up dying out.[/QUOTE] Doubtfully considering FTB doesn't have a permission handler of any kind. Which 99% of servers that have issues with the new EULA do, for obvious reasons. Unless the server gives out /op for donating. Which is a downright awful idea anyways.
[QUOTE=Sword and Paint;45015694]He just killed off part of his games community, Another notch to his belt for stupidity. Maybe he's a fan of EA? After all he did start an "official servers" scheme like EA did with BF3\4[/QUOTE] It probably increases profit for them, actually. This change benefits players and those are the ones Mojang gets money from exactly once when they buy it. Microtransaction servers being widespread would reduce buying incentive for new players.
I always thought the idea of hosting a server which you actively need donations to keep us is a bit of a silly idea. Like, it just seems as if it'd be a bit unfair on your userbase?
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;45017182]Yeah, but it's about sustainability. If I can't afford the costs to run a shop, I don't open a shop. If I can't afford the costs to get a car, I don't get a car. It's as simple as it goes. You can't sustain it right now? Don't do it, and wait.[/QUOTE] sustaining a community over a large period of time gets costly, what might start out as a simple 20 slot server could expand into a large gaming community if you play your cards right.
i dont see why anyone thinks this will change anything, how will it be moderated? is he going to blacklist server IPs that do this stuff? no pretty sure all this will do is limit mojang's liability oh they'll 'send lawyers' sure. guess they'll just be targeting the giant servers then
[QUOTE=Shadaez;45017328]i dont see why anyone thinks this will change anything, how will it be moderated? is he going to blacklist server IPs that do this stuff? no pretty sure all this will do is limit mojang's liability oh they'll 'send lawyers' sure. guess they'll just be targeting the giant servers then[/QUOTE] It's basically as you said, this way they can't be held liable in the event that someone decides to sue them over this issue. Which occasionally happens with other companies like Apple. They would most certainly win the lawsuit, but Mojang would much rather just not deal with it altogether. Similarly because it would be far too difficult and tedious to target every server. They will go after the big, big servers only. Make an example of them so as to (hopefully) cut down on other servers from doing it. I've little doubt that if Mojang decided to make a legal pursuit, they would win. Frankly this isn't even a question of money to Mojang who have it in droves - before anyone decides to think to the contrary. The only real question left is what does this mean for the middleground people. Specifically, Bukkit and Spigot teams, and the plugin developers who develop (not just plugins designed specifically for Donators) but people who develop permission handlers, aka PEX, since that is THE main method for this Donator exclusivity. I'm not saying that they'll be sued, but it seems to me that they'll probably be somewhat obligated to make it a point, perhaps in the terms and use, that users cannot utilize those bits of software for monetary gains.
[QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;45017304]sustaining a community over a large period of time gets costly, what might start out as a simple 20 slot server could expand into a large gaming community if you play your cards right.[/QUOTE] And you measure the feasibility of that and expand accordingly. You don't get majestically forced into having 5 servers, you choose to buy 5 servers.
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;45017407]And you measure the feasibility of that and expand accordingly. You don't get majestically forced into having 5 servers, you choose to buy 5 servers.[/QUOTE] that doesn't happen overnight, and nobody with their head screwed on tightly will buy 5 separate servers rather than using a central service like a dedicated server. if you are receiving enough donations to expand then why not?
A kid tried mocking me saying he was better than me because he bought 3 invulnerable packs. "They were 60$ each"
I'm ok with them trying to curb the P2W elements like buying diamond swords, but they are also trying to prevent any and all donator perks, such as custom username colors and other perks that give you recognition as a donator but don't give you an unfair advantage; that's what I have a problem with.
Why do people care? If a server is charging for perks, titles, or even vanilla stuff like (diamonds and other in game items), and you aren't a fan, then don't play on the server. I don't see why so many people are up in arms over this now when it's been done for years in other game communities.
10$ for diamond armor if you actually buy this in a server, you are a dumby [editline]6th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Frisk;45018025]Why do people care? If a server is charging for perks, titles, or even vanilla stuff like (diamonds and other in game items), and you aren't a fan, then don't play on the server. I don't see why so many people are up in arms over this now when it's been done for years in other game communities.[/QUOTE] because selling diamond shit is pretty much scamming children that don't know any better / don't care its an explicitly obtainable vanilla item
I might get some flack for this, but to me, selling donator perks is a lot like a microtransaction you'd see in a mobile game. Depending on what it is, however, it can be bad or good. Like, I'm ok with cosmetic things. A fancy title maybe, or a hat. but selling perks to, say, actually have a plot of land to build on or invincible godmode abilities? That's just not kosher.
[QUOTE=xxfalconxx;45018330]I might get some flack for this, but to me, selling donator perks is a lot like a microtransaction you'd see in a mobile game. Depending on what it is, however, it can be bad or good. Like, I'm ok with cosmetic things. A fancy title maybe, or a hat. but selling perks to, say, actually have a plot of land to build on or invincible godmode abilities? That's just not kosher.[/QUOTE] or 10$ for admin privilage
Now if only Garry could change the EULA for Garry's Mod and Rust...
[QUOTE=J!NX;45018116] because selling diamond shit is pretty much scamming children that don't know any better / don't care its an explicitly obtainable vanilla item[/QUOTE] EVE does exactly this. Essentially, you can pay money for ingame money, referred to as "plexing." Nobody cares because some people have stable jobs and don't want to farm items ingame to have fun.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;45016064]No server is going to be innovative or interesting if they can't afford to keep it up. What everyone doesn't seem to understand that not all servers are shitlers and have stupid p2w mechanics-- in fact most don't and for those that do, don't play on it simple as that. If you get perks that don't affect gameplay (at least much) or give some huge bonus why should you stop that? It gives people more reasons to donate.[/QUOTE] Having your house torn down by some fucktard who payed $10 for a superpickaxe which removes a sphere of blocks at a time is amazingly fun. ~Innovative and interesting~
[QUOTE=RedStar;45015574]related (long image) [t]http://i.imgur.com/sRMigAe.png[/t][/QUOTE] This is basically roblox. Has Minecraft become roblox? Where you have to pay to have an even playing field?
I can sort of see why he's doing this but at the same time its their servers. They paid out the money to host the server at the end of the day its their choice. Why not just filter out servers that do this? 'Zombie Panic Source' does it with custom content. Beside most don't really mind donation features as long as they don't give one player a advantage over another anyway
How the hell are they going to enforce this, anyway?
I think this is a great idea. Hosting your own game server has become more of a business than a passion, and I don't think that's good for anyone. Server owners will sell perks that completely ruin the game (such as the common "pay for admin") because it's the only way they can keep the server running. In my opinion, you shouldn't be running a server that you can't be paying for. Donations should be just that - donations - made because you like the server. They can help pay for the server, but you should be able to completely pay for the server yourself. You should be hosting the server because you want to host the server. You should give admin to players because they will be good admins. Cultivate a player base of people who care, not people who just want another server to play on. If you can get a player base that actually cares about the server and the people on it, you shouldn't have any trouble raising donations. I've spent more time in the Garry's Mod community than I have in the Minecraft community, and I can t ell you that donations only help the server owners whose pockets they fill. Instead of trying to build a good server, they'll buy (yes, buy) addons to make it as popular as it can be (which is why you see so many DarkRP servers), because players = "donations." Garry's Mod server hosting has been industrialized, to the point where servers hosted by admins who actually care about their server and its players, and who only want a fun server to play on, are left empty. In my opinion, "donations" for perks ruin servers. Admins should be people who are capable and mature enough to be admins. Server owners should be in it for the game, not for the money.
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