• Fire crews watch man die.
    214 replies, posted
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182728]one of the worst analogies I've ever seen bank tellers aren't hired to protect your money lol[/QUOTE] And fire fighters aren't hired to protect suicidal people trying to drown themselves either, and the analogy made perfect sense if you put the "you have to do anything you can regardless of the risk" factor you are insisting on shoving into the situation. Just stop posting, you are naive and have no clue what you are talking about.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182376]I don't give a shit if they weren't trained. they should've at least tried to save him. if I was just some bystander out there I would've at least TRIED to help the guy[/QUOTE] So they wade in and get in trouble, won't that look good.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182756]not necessarily[/QUOTE] Ok let's play a game. Go find a river that's 54F. Now jump in with the clothes on your back and nothing else. Now try and drag, let's say, a 180 pound weight the size of a man out of the water. Also the weight is kicking and punching at you. I'm sure you'll both get out just fine.
[QUOTE=StormHammer;30182775]And fire fighters aren't hired to protect suicidal people trying to drown themselves either, and the analogy made perfect sense if you put the "you have to do anything you can regardless of the risk" factor you are insisting on shoving into the situation. Just stop posting, you are naive and have no clue what you are talking about.[/QUOTE] firefighters are hired to fight fires and save people and perform rescues [editline]1st June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=TheBrokenHobo;30182798]Ok let's play a game. Go find a river that's 54F. Now jump in with the clothes on your back and nothing else. Now try and drag, let's say, a 180 pound weight the size of a man out of the water. Also the weight is kicking and punching at you. I'm sure you'll both get out just fine.[/QUOTE] biased hypothetical
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182845]firefighters are hired to fight fires and save people and perform rescues [B]that they have trained for[/B][/QUOTE] There. You are correct. You can pretty much ask any law enforcement or fire department if they should do stuff like this they haven't trained for and they will all say no.
[QUOTE=markg06;30182787]So they wade in and get in trouble, won't that look good.[/QUOTE] so you'd rather they not get in trouble than at least try to rescue the person?
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182845]firefighters are hired to fight fires and save people and perform rescues [editline]1st June 2011[/editline] biased hypothetical[/QUOTE] How the fuck is that biased? That's exactly what would happen.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182652]I'm still gonna blame the firefighters because they did nothing to attempt to save the guy, and that's despicable their job nature involves saving others, and they failed miserably in this case[/QUOTE] you heartless bastard the firefighters have to live knowing that they, by their inaction, caused the death of a poor, mentally ill old man they don't need your scorn on top of that
[QUOTE=TheBrokenHobo;30182875]How the fuck is that biased? That's exactly what would happen.[/QUOTE] it's biased because you set up all the details to make your point look better that's not necessarily what would happen in the rescue
They couldn't perform the rescue, because they have no training and no cold water gear due to the budget cuts in 2009. It is also in their policy that they cannot do anything they have no training in.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182908]it's biased because you set up all the details to make your point look better that's not necessarily what would happen in the rescue[/QUOTE] That's the most likely thing to happen. You on the other hand are assuming that everything would be sunshine and rainbows.
[QUOTE=ThePuska;30182900]you heartless bastard the firefighters have to live knowing that they, by their inaction, caused the death of a poor, mentally ill old man they don't need your scorn on top of that[/QUOTE] I'm not the heartless one. the ones that are heartless are the people in this thread who justified doing nothing and letting the person die, while implying that it wasn't worth rescuing him because he was a "miserable sob" who didn't deserve to be rescued.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182908]it's biased because you set up all the details to make your point look better that's not necessarily what would happen in the rescue[/QUOTE] All the details are like in the story. We could change the story and give the water a nice 20 degrees C, then yes they would be able to safe him if they have room temperature water rescue training v:v:v
[QUOTE=TheBrokenHobo;30182925]That's the most likely thing to happen. You on the other hand are assuming that everything would be sunshine and rainbows.[/QUOTE] you can't say that with any degree of certainty. you're talking out of your ass and acting like it would be mission impossible. [editline]1st June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Zyx;30182938]All the details are like in the story.[/QUOTE] I'm referring to his hypothetical rescue
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182932]I'm not the heartless one. the ones that are heartless are the people in this thread who justified doing nothing and letting the person die, while implying that it wasn't worth rescuing him because he was a "miserable sob" who didn't deserve to be rescued.[/QUOTE] Oh for fucks sake, nobody called him a "miserable sob". [editline]1st June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=JDK721;30182942]you can't say that with any degree of certainty. you're talking out of your ass and acting like it would be mission impossible. [editline]1st June 2011[/editline] I'm referring to his hypothetical rescue[/QUOTE] Yeah because a suicidal man not wanting to be rescued is the least likely outcome.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182871]so you'd rather they not get in trouble than at least try to rescue the person?[/QUOTE] Okay, heres an imaginary situation. You are happily married with a wife and 2 kids, you are on your way home from work, passing through an area that is at least 30 minutes from the nearest firefighter station. You see a house on fire with a man sitting on a second story porch, clearly waiting to die. You yell for him to get down, but he signals that he isn't. 1: You are [B]untrained,[/B] 2: You have [B]no equipment,[/B] 3: The man is clearly suicidal, and[B] you have no way of knowing if you can get him out of the house against his will if he fights back.[/B] 4: You have both your life, and the well being of the wife and children you will leave behind if you die. Now, are you going still going to go into that burning house? B[B]ecause that situation is more or less the EXACT same as the one the fire fighters were in. [/B]They weren't trained, they didn't have the gear for the job, and they had no idea whether or not the man would resist rescue, and you still think they should have thrown themselves into that? That is selfish, and it would be ridiculous that you would ask that of them. Your naive ass wants to talk about a degree of certainty? How about you discuss the odds of success in rescuing someone who doesn't want to be rescued when the [B]entire environment around you [/B](A burning house, fatal temperature waters) is working against you.
[QUOTE=StormHammer;30182983]Okay, heres an imaginary situation. You are happily married with a wife and 2 kids, you are on your way home from work, passing through an area that is at least 30 minutes from the nearest firefighter station. You see a house on fire with a man sitting on a second story porch, clearly waiting to die. 1: You are untrained, 2: You have no equipment, 3: The man is clearly suicidal, and you have no way of knowing if you can get him out of the house against his will if he fights back. 4: You have both your life, and the well being of the wife and children you will leave behind if you die. Now, are you going still going to go into that burning house? Because that situation is more or less the same as the one the fire fighters were in. They weren't trained, they didn't have the gear for the job, and they had no idea whether or not the man would resist rescue, and you still think they should have thrown themselves into that? That is selfish, and it would be ridiculous that you would ask that of them.[/QUOTE] Bad example, civilians have no training and it's not their job to rescue people :downs: Also, this thread is now about when firefighters should rescue people, bank tellers protect money, civilians smoke diving in burning buildings etc and when they shouldn't.
[QUOTE=TheBrokenHobo;30182956]Oh for fucks sake, nobody called him a "miserable sob".[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=StormHammer;30182647]You are an idiot and naive if you think it is worth gambling on the life of someone who A) Wants to live and isn't suicidal B) Has had CONSIDERABLE money invested into their training C) Will live on to help people who actually want their help In exchange for the chance that you might save some miserable sop who wants to die and might very possible fight and injure or kill the firefighter attempting to rescue them in the process that might not even save him.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182932]I'm not the heartless one. the ones that are heartless are the people in this thread who justified doing nothing and letting the person die, while implying that it wasn't worth rescuing him because he was a "miserable sob" who didn't deserve to be rescued.[/QUOTE] You would make the firefighters' lives a hell by jumping into the river and causing at least two deaths instead of just one
:fireman:
Anyone who says "if I was in the firefighters shoes I would've done it" are fucking idiots. You don't go in and try to save someone if you aren't trained in that area. Would you perform CPR on someone who was drowning but you didn't know how to perform CPR? If you had half of a brain you wouldn't because you would risk their life even more. Not saying this justifies the act but it's not the firefighters fault in any way.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182376]I don't give a shit if they weren't trained. they should've at least tried to save him. if I was just some bystander out there I would've at least TRIED to help the guy[/QUOTE] If you don't know what the fuck you are doing you might kill him rather than help.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182756]not necessarily So it's better to have 2 deaths rather then just one?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=JDK721;30182756]most mentally ill people are NOT violent[/QUOTE] If someone was sitting in a chair with a gun and told you they wanted to die, would you try and take the gun? [QUOTE=JDK721;30182756]baseless claims[/QUOTE] You know nothing about water rescue, stop talking out your ass. [QUOTE=Soldier32;30183053]Anyone who says "if I was in the firefighters shoes I would've done it" are fucking idiots. You don't go in and try to save someone if you aren't trained in that area. Would you perform CPR on someone who was drowning but you didn't know how to perform CPR? If you had half of a brain you wouldn't because you would risk their life even more. Not saying this justifies the act but it's not the firefighters fault in any way.[/QUOTE] If someone needs CPR they are technical dead, therefore you can't make them any worse.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30183019][quote] In exchange for the chance that you might save some miserable sop who wants to die and might very possible fight and injure or kill the firefighter attempting to rescue them in the process that might not even save him.[/quote][/QUOTE] [quote]I'm not the heartless one. the ones that are heartless are the people in this thread who justified doing nothing and letting the person die, while implying that it wasn't worth rescuing him because he was a "miserable sob" who didn't deserve to be rescued.[/quote] You're implying that he meant that the man wasn't worth saving when he never said that. Pretty sure he's saying what most of us are saying, that it wasn't worth the risk.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30183019][/QUOTE] I called him a miserable sob because anyone who wants to take their life is obviously miserable, why else would you consider suicide? Who are you to say he can't kill himself to end the misery he is in, why is it your decision how his life ends? [quote]Bad example, civilians have no training and it's not their job to rescue people[/quote] No it wasn't, because the firefighters had no training or equipment, it would be the equivalent of asking a civilian to go into a burning house. Forgive me if my examples are getting far out though, I'm trying to make it really simple for this naive kid to understand so I keep making my situations more and more elaborate.
[QUOTE=StormHammer;30183129]No it wasn't, because the firefighters had no training or equipment, it would be the equivalent of asking a civilian to go into a burning house. Forgive me if my examples are getting far out though, I'm trying to make it really simple for this naive kid to understand so I keep making my situations more and more elaborate.[/QUOTE] You missed the :downs: indicating sarcasm. I'm on your side :buddy:
I have a brilliant idea for getting saved. If the person wants to be rescued, they could shout "With my dying breath, I curse you all to lives of misery and pain before being dragged into the depths of hell" as they go under the waves. Somebody will be intimidated enough to attempt a rescue, you all see how curses are and how they don't end well.
[QUOTE=Acesarge;30183085]You know nothing about water rescue, stop talking out your ass.[/QUOTE] do you know what a baseless claim is? [editline]1st June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=StormHammer;30183129]I called him a miserable sob because anyone who wants to take their life is obviously miserable, why else would you consider suicide? Who are you to say he can't kill himself to end the misery he is in, why is it your decision how his life ends? [/QUOTE] calling someone who is suffering from mental illness and having irrational thoughts as a result of it a "miserable son of a bitch" seems like an asshole comment [QUOTE=StormHammer;30183129]Who are you to say he can't kill himself to end the misery he is in, why is it your decision how his life ends? [/QUOTE] I never said he couldn't or that it was my decision. where the fuck are you getting that from? are you having trouble comprehending my posts
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182908]it's biased because you set up all the details to make your point look better that's not necessarily what would happen in the rescue[/QUOTE] Uh? He just used the [b]same[/b] details in the event reported in the OP.
[QUOTE=captainHOE;30183306]Uh? He just used the [b]same[/b] details in the event reported in the OP.[/QUOTE] let's read his post again [QUOTE=TheBrokenHobo;30182798]Ok let's play a game. Go find a river that's 54F. Now jump in with the clothes on your back and nothing else. Now try and drag, let's say, a 180 pound weight the size of a man out of the water. Also the weight is kicking and punching at you.[/QUOTE] only two of those details from the news report the other two are not
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