[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;30194041]You know me.[/QUOTE]
I'm taken
sorry bro
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182376]I don't give a shit if they weren't trained. they should've at least tried to save him.
if I was just some bystander out there I would've at least TRIED to help the guy[/QUOTE]
then they would have drowned too and the death toll would be at two or maybe four people instead of one. :downs:
[QUOTE=JDK721;30194260]I'm taken
sorry bro[/QUOTE]
You still haven't answered what you would have done as to help. You keep saying you would have at least tried to help.
Then you say if you had a wet suit for cold water you would have been like "Well fuck it, I'm going in" - But you don't right?
What then would you do if you stand near the water and you only have the clothes you stand in. Then tell me, how would you "try" and help him?
And also this thread amuses me.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30188507]if I had a wet suit and life jacket then I would swim out there myself and attempt to persuade the man to come back to shore[/QUOTE]
This tops the list of stupid shit you say.
You say the firefighters are bad because they wouldn't go out and save a guy due to not having the right equipment.
And then you say that if you were there, you would save the guy. BUT ONLY if you had the equipment to do so. So you would have done what the firefighters would've done.
wow
jdk acting like an idiot
now that's a new one.
[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;30196455]This tops the list of stupid shit you say.
You say the firefighters are bad because they wouldn't go out and save a guy due to not having the right equipment.
And then you say that if you were there, you would save the guy. BUT ONLY if you had the equipment to do so. So you would have done what the firefighters would've done.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://www.vinylengine.com/images/forum/troll.jpg[/img]
Lets stop feeding him.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30182376]if I was just some bystander out there I would've at least TRIED to help the guy[/QUOTE]
If none of the 75 people watching did anything, there was probably a reason.
None of them could justify jumping in the freezing cold water with clothes and incorrect gear on to save a suicidal person, as the risk of them dying would've been great (by the sounds of it).
I doubt even you, JDK the Hero, the young student, would've jumped in the water and tried to save him.
Source?
[QUOTE=captainHOE;30196760]wow
jdk acting like an idiot
now that's a new one.[/QUOTE]
coming from the zionist who repeatedly justifies israeli war crimes
[editline]2nd June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;30196455]This tops the list of stupid shit you say.
You say the firefighters are bad because they wouldn't go out and save a guy due to not having the right equipment.
And then you say that if you were there, you would save the guy. BUT ONLY if you had the equipment to do so. So you would have done what the firefighters would've done.[/QUOTE]
so you can say without a fact that they didn't have any type of equipment that could help them with a rescue attempt? they sat there for an HOUR and couldn't possibly find any sort of equipment to help them?
[QUOTE=JDK721;30201187]coming from the zionist who repeatedly justifies israeli war crimes
[editline]2nd June 2011[/editline]
so you can say without a fact that they didn't have any type of equipment that could help them with a rescue attempt? they sat there for an HOUR and couldn't possibly find any sort of equipment to help them?[/QUOTE]
They're firemen not the god damn coast guard, they probably didn't have any equipment to use.
I live near where this happened.
The guy was in water that was barely above his waist. He basically stood out there until he couldn't hold himself up any more because of the cold and drowned in water that was too shallow for a Coast Guard boat to reach him. The water wasn't even all that cold. This guy was in his 50s and was able to just stand around in it for over an hour.
It would have been easy to wade out there to at least TALK to the guy, but as soon as the Fire & Police got involved they wouldn't let anyone else go out in the water to try to save him. I understand if the Fire and Police wanted to be [i]fucking pussies[/i] and not help him, but why the fuck did they have to stop everyone else???
[editline]3rd June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=DogGunn;30200135]If none of the 75 people watching did anything, there was probably a reason.
None of them could justify jumping in the freezing cold water with clothes and incorrect gear on to save a suicidal person, as the risk of them dying would've been great (by the sounds of it).
I doubt even you, JDK the Hero, the young student, would've jumped in the water and tried to save him.[/QUOTE]
The Police & Fire wouldn't let anyone else go into the water because it was "too dangerous" according to them.
So not only did they refuse to help, but they blocked others from going out and trying to help him as well.
[QUOTE=analrapist;30211216]It would have been easy to wade out there to at least TALK to the guy, but as soon as the Fire & Police got involved they wouldn't let anyone else go out in the water to try to save him. I understand if the Fire and Police wanted to be [i]fucking pussies[/i] and not help him, but why the fuck did they have to stop everyone else???[/quote]
Well what happens if the other person trying to help them gets into trouble? Can the Fire Brigade then jump in and help him because he was only trying to be good?
It might only be knee deep, but 10 degree water can onset hypothermia fairly quickly. Not worth more people getting into shit.
[QUOTE=analrapist;30211216]So not only did they refuse to help, but they blocked others from going out and trying to help him as well.[/QUOTE]
Good. Save themselves from a messy situation whichever what way you look at it.
I paddle in late fall and early spring with my paddling club and have tipped into 4-15 degree water before. It is not something you want to mess around with, even wearing the gear that we do (spandex, neoprene, other similar clothing). Cold water saps your strength very quickly. On the colder days when we need life jackets, for those who have pull life jackets, like me, it becomes a matter of "If you think you are going to be in the water past a few minutes, pull it then, not later as you will not be able to."
The firefighters probably tried to think of ways to rescue the guy, as they are trained to do. If they could not come up with a way to safely rescue the guy, then chances are there were few safe ways to do it. There is a big difference between cold water operations, compared to warmer water operation.
Compromise the lives of firemen that are not trained in the situation in where the man is dying in.
That's like having Air Force cadets being sent to the front lines.
JDK your fucking shit on the first page is god damn retarded, I don't understand how you don't understand the concept that they weren't trained for it, and if they tried to do it they could have been fired or even worse, got into trouble themselves, where they probably would have died because no one was there to save them.
[QUOTE=analrapist;30211216]I
The Police & Fire wouldn't let anyone else go into the water because it was "too dangerous" according to them.
So not only did they refuse to help, but they blocked others from going out and trying to help him as well.[/QUOTE]
They'd be responsible if somebody tried to be a hero and ended up dying too. If they say that the conditions are too dangerous for them to go in, why would they let somebody else go in who isn't properly trained? They're trying to protect the majority. If this guy truly didn't want to die he wouldn't have waited an hour for it to come. Why save somebody that doesn't want saving? If somebody really wants to off themselves, I say let them.
uhh, the stupidity in this thread.
Saving a drowning person is one of the most dangerous things you can do. By instinct, the drowning person will grab onto anything to keep afloat, including their rescuer. Thus you have a situation where the previous victim is now, whether they know it or not, drowning their supposed rescuer. Unless you have proper flotation devices ( i.e. life jackets, life preservers, etc.), then jumping in after a drowning man puts you in more risk than them.
Of course, this has probably already been stated in this thread, but I thought it should be reinforced since some people don't seem to learn.
[QUOTE=analrapist;30211216]
The Police & Fire wouldn't let anyone else go into the water because it was "too dangerous" according to them.
So not only did they refuse to help, but they blocked others from going out and trying to help him as well.[/QUOTE]
Their job is to save lives, they knew that if they sent any police or fireman out there to rescue him, they'd probably lose that man, so why the fuck would they let anyone even less trained deal with it?
[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;30188606]Haha, you apparently don't know shit about cold surface water rescue. Nothing short of a cold water suit is going to prevent a diver from freezing in fifty four degree water. You ain't gonna save no one with some wetsuit used in surfing or warm water diving. Your body would begin locking up as soon as it hits the water.[/QUOTE]
I disagree with JDK but that's kind of wrong. I've used wetsuits in 54 degree water for 30 minutes to an hour before when I went surfing, it keeps you warm. Now below 40, maybe, but 54 is fine for short term exposure. I'm guessing it's different however if you're constantly exposed to water because it's different than laying on a board but like I said short term is fine.
Back to the main topic, JDK's clearly never before been in 54 degree water, let alone in depths up to his neck. The second you hit the water you start gasping. After a few minutes it gets very hard to move and you'll probably start cramping in your hands and feet after about 15-20 minutes. It's not fun and probably impossible to bring someone in neck deep water who would most likely be resisting who's an unknown number of feet away from shore (article didn't say).
[QUOTE=JDK721;30201187]so you can say without a fact that they didn't have any type of equipment that could help them with a rescue attempt? they sat there for an HOUR and couldn't possibly find any sort of equipment to help them?[/QUOTE]
And I guess you can say for a fact they wouldn't be fired for breaking the fucking law for intervening, I guess
[QUOTE=JDK721;30201187]so you can say without a fact that they didn't have any type of equipment that could help them with a rescue attempt? they sat there for an HOUR and couldn't possibly find any sort of equipment to help them?[/QUOTE]
the point is that no money was allocated to equipment or training to use equipment
so no they didnt have equipment at all
[QUOTE=analrapist;30211216]I live near where this happened.
The guy was in water that was barely above his waist. He basically stood out there until he couldn't hold himself up any more because of the cold and drowned in water that was too shallow for a Coast Guard boat to reach him. The water wasn't even all that cold. This guy was in his 50s and was able to just stand around in it for over an hour.
It would have been easy to wade out there to at least TALK to the guy, but as soon as the Fire & Police got involved they wouldn't let anyone else go out in the water to try to save him. I understand if the Fire and Police wanted to be [i]fucking pussies[/i] and not help him, but why the fuck did they have to stop everyone else???
The Police & Fire wouldn't let anyone else go into the water because it was "too dangerous" according to them.
So not only did they refuse to help, but they blocked others from going out and trying to help him as well.[/QUOTE]
if someone went out there and saved him the police would be forced to prosecute this hero
If I was in that team I would just say I'm closing my shift, and then jump in to help the poor motherfucker.
[QUOTE=Crimor;30247887]If I was in that team I would just say I'm closing my shift, and then jump in to help the poor motherfucker.[/QUOTE]
And risk getting yourself killed because you aren't trained to deal with this shit and thus have absolutely no clue on what to do or how to respond to certain situations that are different because this is cold water.
Gee, didn't know you were suicidal.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;30248915]And risk getting yourself killed because you aren't trained to deal with this shit and thus have absolutely no clue on what to do or how to respond to certain situations that are different because this is cold water.
Gee, didn't know you were suicidal.[/QUOTE]
I know how to swim, check.
I know I can keep an additional person afloat, check.
I know how long you can stay in cold water until your muscles shut down, check.
It's another fucking human being we're talking about, check.
You guys think way to negatively...
If they intervened they put themselves at risk for self-ignition, and therefore if they died it would of caused shit to hit the fan considering they disrespected training procedure.
The fact they didn't intervene though is allowing the fire department to get equipment for these certain types of situations, aswell as help them train for these types of situations. It sucks the guy died, but think of the postives that came from this.
[QUOTE=Crimor;30249228]I know how to swim, check.
I know I can keep an additional person afloat, check.
I know how long you can stay in cold water until your muscles shut down, check.
It's another fucking human being we're talking about, check.[/QUOTE]
Now do it while the other guy swims away from you.
I like how this thread basically just turned into a bunch of people excusing their selfish and cowardice of death to protect others with something such as improper training. Which while understandable, is not excusable for the loss of a life.
If you are not willing to risk your own for another, than maybe you don't deserve it. Call me an idiot or a bleeding-heart moron, but I am more than willing to die trying to save someone else. Maybe you guys don't understand that kind of stuff and you probably never will.
[editline]4th June 2011[/editline]
I mean honestly, I understand where you guys are coming from but it seems like you're just trying to justify letting someone die because it is risky and a danger to yourself.
[QUOTE=Crimor;30249228]I know how to swim, check.
I know I can keep an additional person afloat, check.
I know how long you can stay in cold water until your muscles shut down, check.
It's another fucking human being we're talking about, check.[/QUOTE]
You know this person is suicidal right? He wont let you get to him.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;30250041]I like how this thread basically just turned into a bunch of people excusing their selfish and cowardice of death to protect others with something such as improper training. Which while understandable, is not excusable for the loss of a life.
If you are not willing to risk your own for another, than maybe you don't deserve it. Call me an idiot or a bleeding-heart moron, but I am more than willing to die trying to save someone else. Maybe you guys don't understand that kind of stuff and you probably never will.
[editline]4th June 2011[/editline]
I mean honestly, I understand where you guys are coming from but it seems like you're just trying to justify letting someone die because it is risky and a danger to yourself.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I'm pretty sure that's the reason why people don't always save the day thanks for enlightening us.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;30250041]I like how this thread basically just turned into a bunch of people excusing their selfish and cowardice of death to protect others with something such as improper training. Which while understandable, is not excusable for the loss of a life.
If you are not willing to risk your own for another, than maybe you don't deserve it. Call me an idiot or a bleeding-heart moron, but I am more than willing to die trying to save someone else. Maybe you guys don't understand that kind of stuff and you probably never will.
[editline]4th June 2011[/editline]
I mean honestly, I understand where you guys are coming from but it seems like you're just trying to justify letting someone die because it is risky and a danger to yourself.[/QUOTE]
first off he was suicidal
second nobody knew if he was carrying a knife or a weapon or was on drugs.
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