sweeping statements like the title do not help anyone
Jeez the world was easier to navigate 20 years ago.
[QUOTE=spkypwnsuall;49594026]See, in Australia, if you don't have a degree, you don't get employed. If you got the job before hand without a degree, they expect that you'll go back and restudy to get the degree to continue your job. Its especially hard if you lose the job, since experience < degree attitude in our workforce.
Without a degree, you're not considerable for the position.[/QUOTE]
That sounds fairly old-fashioned... are you sure it's like that, *everywhere* in Aus, no exceptions?
My brother is a Computer Science major that graduated in 2014. He was a pretty decent student, but nothing really special. As of his senior year he had only held a couple low-key part-time jobs and had never done an internship. I don't know how many personal projects he did that were worth noting, all I know is that he plays Minecraft online like all the damn time and maybe worked on some server plugins.
Anyways, he had a job lined up straight out of college with a $60,000 starting salary. He has already paid off all of his loans. Gets plenty of bonuses too.
Not sure exactly what all this means, but it just goes to show that you really have no idea whats gonna land you a job.
The thing that worries me the most is the idea of 'relevant experience'. For example, I'm a Computer Science major like my brother. But I've spent a lot of my free time working with game development related stuff like Unity, Blender, Gimp, FL Studio, Sony Vegas, and all kinds of other shit, instead of a bunch of programming languages like a normal programmer. A run-of-the-mill software development company won't give 2 shits that I know how to use Unity. I suppose they may look at a bigger picture but the fact that I don't have a good amount of experience in stuff that actually matters to an employer worries me. In the end I learned all that stuff cause I enjoy doing it (for the most part). I never had any desire to program fucking SQL databases or else you would see that kind of thing on my resume.
[QUOTE=Blind Lulu;49593949]Considering how much debt college puts you in I would hardly call it a free ticket to a job even if one was guaranteed after.[/QUOTE]
At this point, not even graduating from MIT makes a difference, IMO. Compared to a guy with 8-10 years of IT experience, recruiters will go for the Average Joe with tons of experience instead of the MIT graduate, every time.
Seeing news like this worries me sometimes since I'm trying to major in Nursing, and trying to get in as either a Surgical Tech or Scrub Nurse. I know I'm good for college, and getting the education I need, but once I get out of nursing school I'm scared that there won't be many opportunities available. Especially where I live, where everyone here wants to be a nurse. Don't know if I want to have a backup major, or keep focusing on what I plan on doing.
[QUOTE=Rocko's;49594179]Seeing news like this worries me sometimes since I'm trying to major in Nursing, and trying to get in as either a Surgical Tech or Scrub Nurse. I know I'm good for college, and getting the education I need, but once I get out of nursing school I'm scared that there won't be many opportunities available. Especially where I live, where everyone here wants to be a nurse. Don't know if I want to have a backup major, or keep focusing on what I plan on doing.[/QUOTE]
In your case, I don't think it's gonna change any time soon. Medical and Law students definitely need a degree first and foremost, I'd say.
This is pretty interesting as it seems completely the opposite where I live, whenever I look at job applications I see almost every job requirement atleast have certain degrees, though they are not university degrees.
Comp sci student here hoping to make 60-80k starting salary once I get that special piece of paper
Definitely feeling this in my field (Network Engineering)
I have no degree, but the fact that I've been a Jr Network Engineer in a Datacenter and ISP is extremely valuable. It's really not just about experience here, it's [I]what kind[/I] of experience.
It depends on the field you're going into. I'm job hunting for trainee accountant jobs and every one I've seen so far requires the applicant to currently be studying or have already studied an Accounting or Commerce degree, which is good because I'm studying a Commerce degree while majoring in Accounting. University study is not required for certification with the CPA or ICAA, but it certainly helps.
In school for TV, obviously picked a college over a university. Doesn't help that my mom wants me to go to University after completing college. I'm like.. WHY. Why would I spend 3 more years in school, $25k+ more in debt on top of the current $15k to maybe get a better job after graduation when I could go straight to working, and work my way up to something better in 3 years?
To be honest one of the jobs I had while in college did more for my career than college itself. Sometimes I wish I had skipped college and freelanced for a few years instead, that would have been all I needed for a career.
[QUOTE=Danny1828;49594213]This is pretty interesting as it seems completely the opposite where I live, whenever I look at job applications I see almost every job requirement atleast have certain degrees, though they are not university degrees.[/QUOTE]
Try not to get confused though, that's mostly the HR dudes posting what *they* consider important for the job, but once you're interviewed by a team leader, he'll most likely say he's not interested in your degree, but in your background experience and skill set, and if it's valuable to him or not.
[QUOTE=Maksie99;49594132]Jeez the world was easier to navigate 20 years ago.[/QUOTE]
I something think this, but then I realize my perception of this is only because I was a toddler at the time.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3kQyqMFpQ[/media]
This is a cool video related to the whole "experience vs. degree" thing (sort of). Definitely worth watching whenever you have 15 minutes.
If you don't have a degree many places won't take a look at your resume, however the good places will hire based on experience. The question is, who do you want to work for - big or small business, and what type of atmosphere do you want.
Isn't the point of a degree to 1) help you get your foot in the career-ladder door and 2) allow you to make your way up the promotion ladder?
My dad only ever got a diploma, and he regrets it. It has time and again prevented him from getting promoted to what he feels he deserves. Even with his 30+ years in Civil Engineering (to the point where the company he works for allows him to manage and oversee multimillion dollar projects) employees half his age are climbing the ladder faster than he is just due to the fact they have a Masters or Bachelors.
I'm not sure how it works everywhere else, but that's how it is in the Middle-East. If you don't have the qualifications, it'll hamper your progress and keep you at a certain level, even with all the experience in the world.
in product design, the larger the corporation the more firm the degree requirement. most consultancies will be after a killer portfolio and sketch package, instead.
although that's just a generalization, it goes to show there are a lot of variables. degrees can still count for something. :v:
Good thing my uni works with the Montgomery crime lab, might help me get experience with forensics
There is often a ceiling associated with most business that employees can't get promoted past until they have a degree, regardless of what experience they have. Professors definitely need to have Masters and Doctorates and many universities in order to be eligible for pay raises and such.
This is one of the main reasons why older people go back to school, to be eligible for the positions they already know how to do easily.
A lot of times you need the degree to open the door and get the interview, but the actual hiring process is more based on your portfolio and personality.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49593715]It's always amused me when college students don't do any studying on their own downtime for their field or degree. I've met dozens of history students that never read a single history book outside a class requirement. How the fuck do they think they'll get ahead in the world is beyond me.[/QUOTE]
I just started my history minor while I been a global business major. History has always been a passion of mine.
I'm taking a 4000 level holocaust class and some of these history majors in the class have blown me away with their basic level knowledge. One girl seriously stopped the class because she couldn't handle when a professor said her comparison of the holocaust's slavery and Americas slavery system was really not a comparison. I even had the professors asking what I want to do with my history major and I had to let them know I'm just taking it for fun basically.
I really wish I was more socially active when I was back in school, came out of highschool with only 1 friend left to contact. Might had landed me some easy first jobs, but instead now I've flown from NY to California working to something akin to a carpenter as a first job.
As I'm typing out this post on my phone, I'm laying on bed spreads on the floor of the house we are working on with no heating and wearing a shit load of layers of clothes to stave off the cold nights. I was never really physically active in my life, now I wake up with my whole body aching and my finger joints locked in place which hurt like hell trying to unlock them.
Seeing this article does give me some hope though.
[QUOTE=WaffleCopter;49595280]I really wish I was more socially active when I was back in school, came out of highschool with only 1 friend left to contact. Might had landed me some easy first jobs, but instead now I've flown from NY to California working to something akin to a carpenter as a first job.
As I'm typing out this post on my phone, I'm laying on bed spreads on the floor of the house we are working on with no heating and wearing a shit load of layers of clothes to stave off the cold nights. I was never really physically active in my life, now I wake up with my whole body aching and my finger joints locked in place which hurt like hell trying to unlock them.
Seeing this article does give me some hope though.[/QUOTE]
That sounds like a story in the making.
My parents still don't believe me when I tell them this.
Makes sense. People in a second year class could not figure out how to implement this function.
[code]void Polynomial::add_term(pair<double, int> t)
{
terms.push_back(t);
}[/code]
Class was provided (including the vector<pair<double, int> > terms), [I]function declaration[/I] was provided and they still could not figure out how to do that.
Every programming assignment I've done was pathetic. They are all artificial things that aren't at all like how it it to make an [I]actual program[/I] and take like an hour if you have actually programmed something before.
Ironically the programming assignment I did in [I]highschool[/I] was much better because we had to make a whole educational game (in WinForms with VB.NET and we had to print the source code but still, it was an actual full program).
Meanwhile we need people like butchers and plumbers in the US.
can you really say the australian labor market is the same as anywhere else though
also it's a LOT harder to develop soft skills and gain work experience than coasting through undergrad
[QUOTE=helifreak;49595343]Makes sense. People in a second year class could not figure out how to implement this function.
[code]void Polynomial::add_term(pair<double, int> t)
{
terms.push_back(t);
}[/code]
Class was provided (including the vector<pair<double, int> > terms), [I]function declaration[/I] was provided and they still could not figure out how to do that.
Every programming assignment I've done was pathetic. They are all artificial things that aren't at all like how it it to make an [I]actual program[/I] and take like an hour if you have actually programmed something before.
Ironically the programming assignment I did in [I]highschool[/I] was much better because we had to make a whole educational game (in WinForms with VB.NET and we had to print the source code but still, it was an actual full program).[/QUOTE]
This is the problem with higher education in my (limited) experience; people can not have a clue and yet somehow not be kicked out of the program or forced to retake the class until they get it (or give up).
It devalues degrees in general because it means a degree isn't a statement of "this person has a fundamental understanding of concepts and real world applications in X", rather "this person paid us some money, sat through some classes, and we gave them a piece of paper because they tried".
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