[QUOTE=Melkor;38871039]Most of the information I have comes from college lectures, but it's pretty common knowledge that sanitation standards in Medieval Europe were horrible. Many cities didn't have sewers, so trash and waste from chamber pots were often just left on the side of the street.
And I say they killed non christians because they did kill non christians, usually after torturing them.
[url]http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican29.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.public.iastate.edu/~gbetcher/373/MedTowns.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
No they killed big booty witches.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;38865774]actually the early dark ages were easier for the average peasant than the constant warring in the roman empire.
life expectancy shot up after rome fell iirc.[/QUOTE]
But it came at the cost of civilization itself. Rome was the only thing holding most of Europe's communities together and when it collapsed they were cut off from everything. The lack of war was because most people had no nation to serve so they just tended to themselves.
Then when feudalism started bringing civilization back, it drove the average person's quality of life into hell. It was worse than either Rome or the Dark Ages. Worst of all it was designed with eternal stagnation in mind, While Roman society changed with each of their leaders (not always in a good way), feudal societies stayed the same until people couldn't take it anymore.
[QUOTE=Aredbomb;38871491]But it came at the cost of civilization itself. Rome was the only thing holding most of Europe's communities together and when it collapsed they were cut off from everything. The lack of war was because most people had no nation to serve so they just tended to themselves.
Then when feudalism started bringing civilization back, it drove the average person's quality of life into hell. It was worse than either Rome or the Dark Ages. Worst of all it was designed with eternal stagnation in mind, While Roman society changed with each of their leaders (not always in a good way), feudal societies stayed the same until people couldn't take it anymore.[/QUOTE]
feudalism started in rome dude. it was a series of legal contracts developed by the romans to basically ensure farming and harvests. the hierarchy we most associate from feudalism was an organic transition.
and civilization is useless if it doesn't lead to the happiness of the people. sure, pyramids and pantheons are cool to look at, but when built with the blood and starvation of an underclass they aren't worth it.
i mean there are definitely cons to the dark ages, but as a whole it brought a lot of peace for a good deal of time. a lot of the things that we associate with medieval times like torture and heavy warfare in fact are actually things that were truly part of renaissance europe, a time that is generally associated with great learning and art.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;38874024]feudalism started in rome dude. it was a series of legal contracts developed by the romans to basically ensure farming and harvests. the hierarchy we most associate from feudalism was an organic transition.
and civilization is useless if it doesn't lead to the happiness of the people. sure, pyramids and pantheons are cool to look at, but when built with the blood and starvation of an underclass they aren't worth it.
i mean there are definitely cons to the dark ages, but as a whole it brought a lot of peace for a good deal of time. a lot of the things that we associate with medieval times like torture and heavy warfare in fact are actually things that were truly part of renaissance europe, a time that is generally associated with great learning and art.[/QUOTE]
You're talking about A different type of feudalism, one that referred mainly to land grants, and only appeared during late antiquity. Seignorialism, which is what most people are talking about when they say Feudalism was introduced after the Germans sacked Rome in the 5th century.
Things are good, don't be a pessimist.
But the environment is still fucked =[
Borderlands 2, Max Payne 3, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, Far Cry 3 came out this year. Yea, that was a good year, indeed. Also I've started to study C++ and planning to go with it.
Next year will be more difficult for sure, because I will move to study in England from Latvia, while english is not my native language(almost, I've been learning it since 2 years old).
But the best year for me will be when I'll have enough courage to tell my feelings to a girl. :v:
2012 worst year
obama got reelected
[QUOTE=iusehax;38866461]I want to see the downfall of America[/QUOTE]
I want to see an honest and well organised stateless society but you don't see me jacking off in the street :)
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;38866372]"If goods don't cross borders, armies will."[/QUOTE]
yep and if goods run out due to monopolization and unrestricted corporate interest...
Armies will march, and people will pay the price of ignorance of true societal issues. Consumerism is positive only when in moderation. When used to it's full extent, it results in a 30 percent or more obesity rate and a society filled with people who punch their way to a flatscreen TV.
We need intelligence and knowledge of the true issues at hand, for everyone. In the education system, "live" information on the status of the workings of society in secondary and primary. It would help, but when everyone sees the issues, the people who are causing it won't be happy.
People need to learn how the world turns, and get their head out of pop-culture and the next convenient gadget. It sickens me when I see videos of black friday, justin bieber fans, most of the popular songs of today, etc.
Globalization is good, but not when the tools of globalization are used to eliminate cultural traditions for the economic tradition. I'm rambling on, but I'm trying to get a point out. The system can be improved, but if we use our own technology to get lost in our own culture more than we use it to innovate, then what is the point?
[QUOTE=mac338;38868647]Why?[/QUOTE]
Dont know if i really have to say but, my cat died, my parents allmost died, i had alot of hard work with my injuries from the past years...Made a worst introduction to my crush [my fault :v:].
2 Dogs attacked me, i couldnt get sleep once casue of sleep distorter from getting choked.. and pretty basicly im emotionaly and physicaly ruined now. Im even fearing to talk with my crush of being feared she wouldnt talk.
But thats only me in personal and not all was said, Look around the world, this year had more deaths than last years
EDIT:
obviously i only said bad things, i know this year had also really good and great stuff, its just me that i got broken.
[QUOTE=KorJax;38869554]huge post on environmental issues caused by rampant globalization of technology[/QUOTE]
One of your points was, that a lot of this is is simply because people are unaware, but tell me.
Would you have made that post if you didn't have the same tools to spread information that causes a lot of these issues? By the very existence of information technology, it is a curse and a fix. That's how information works. But information is just information. Society needs to change. People need to change their values, to change what they stand for, to change their ideology, and to realize a more worldly view. But again, would they be able to do that if it wasn't for information technology?
The very thing we fear is the very fix we need, but will we succumb to our own culture before we catch up to the environment? I'm going to pull a popular saying out of my ass. Only time will tell.
[QUOTE=showtek;38878804]Dont know if i really have to say but, my cat died, my parents allmost died, i had alot of hard work with my injuries from the past years...Made a worst introduction to my crush [my fault :v:].
2 Dogs attacked me, i couldnt get sleep once casue of sleep distorter from getting choked.. and pretty basicly im emotionaly and physicaly ruined now. Im even fearing to talk with my crush of being feared she wouldnt talk.
But thats only me in personal and not all was said, Look around the world, this year had more deaths than last years
EDIT:
obviously i only said bad things, i know this year had also really good and great stuff, its just me that i got broken.[/QUOTE]
people die all the time, its not like one year people just magically don't die
I fucking knew it. It's one of the features of nostalgia (why are we even equipped with that shit?) that we like to look at the past in a much more positive light than it deserves, to such an extent that the present and future pale in comparison. I'm glad my side at least has some data to support our stance.
[QUOTE=Melkor;38871039]Most of the information I have comes from college lectures, but it's pretty common knowledge that sanitation standards in Medieval Europe were horrible. Many cities didn't have sewers, so trash and waste from chamber pots were often just left on the side of the street.
And I say they killed non christians because they did kill non christians, usually after torturing them.
[url]http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican29.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.public.iastate.edu/~gbetcher/373/MedTowns.htm[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitation_in_ancient_Rome[/url][/QUOTE]
I do concede that sanitation was poorer, but that does not necessarily imply they "wallowed in shit".
People moved rubbish and dung or that to the edges of towns to be dumped in a local stream (I believe one had the name "shitbrook"). Rubbish was still a problem in Rome too, given that nobody really collected it on the scale they did sanitation.
As for the non-Christian tolerance, this mostly kicked off as the Middle ages neared their end (Dark ages are roughly the 500s to 1000s). The inquisition and true intolerance and corruption of the Church really only reached an awful scale in the Renaissance.
Things were pretty smelly, dirt and violence was a part of everyday life (the population was young), but to say that people lost out massively with the fall of Rome is exaggerated.
[QUOTE=Melkor;38874616]You're talking about A different type of feudalism, one that referred mainly to land grants, and only appeared during late antiquity. Seignorialism, which is what most people are talking about when they say Feudalism was introduced after the Germans sacked Rome in the 5th century.[/QUOTE]
i'm talking about serfdom.
"The [i]colonus[/i] was, in status, the lineal descendant of the peasant who, in late Roman times, had been given a plot of land from the public fisc, on condition that he and his heirs cultivate it and never leave it. Such a man was called free, but his freedom was strictly limited; he and his descendants were bound irredeemably to the soil off which they lived. This was what in later times made the [i]colonus[/i] so valuable to a lord, whose position depended in the last resort on men labouring on his lands to support him and his well-born followers." - Penguin History of Medieval Europe by Maurice Keen. P50
it was towards charlemagne's time that the colonus and the slave became essentially the same.
[QUOTE=lifehole;38878863]One of your points was, that a lot of this is is simply because people are unaware, but tell me.
Would you have made that post if you didn't have the same tools to spread information that causes a lot of these issues? By the very existence of information technology, it is a curse and a fix. That's how information works. But information is just information. Society needs to change. People need to change their values, to change what they stand for, to change their ideology, and to realize a more worldly view. But again, would they be able to do that if it wasn't for information technology?
The very thing we fear is the very fix we need, but will we succumb to our own culture before we catch up to the environment? I'm going to pull a popular saying out of my ass. Only time will tell.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying that we should stop doing what we do and go back to a pre-industrial age becuase it prevents human exploitation and environmental troubles (actually the -real- colonial times were much worse as far as human exploitation goes, the Chinese empire was basically brought down from being a world power with amazing cultural signifigance to being poor and struggling for over a hundred years into the modern times because of colonialism by the british).
I think that globalization by far does more good than harm, even if a lot of the harm and a lot of a broad good can't be seen or hasn't come yet (as its a fairly new thing to happen in human history).
But I also think its important to be aware of the costs, since a lot of the costs can be helped/prevented simply through awareness. Especially when it comes to stuff that we directly buy as consumers, because thats where a lot of the brilliance comes from with globalization - we, citizens and consumers of the developed world, have literally the power to influence anything, because if we suddenly decide collectively that we don't want to buy coffee from warlords that make children work the fields and that also destroy the enviornment to cater to us, then such things will [I]actually[/I] stop happening. It's why stuff like rainforest alliance and fair-trade certification has come.
It also influences the business practices of the trans-national corporations that are basically in charge of globalization in the modern world. Point is its important to be at least aware of the impact we all have, even if that impact isn't always so great. As that's how we actually get better as a society, and how we prevent people from abusing globalization in the future.
Remember the last time we were living in a "Golden Age"?
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/G_Princip_(cropped).jpg[/IMG]
That went down well.
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;38888157]Remember the last time we were living in a "Golden Age"?
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/G_Princip_(cropped).jpg[/IMG]
That went down well.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't exactly say the early 1900's was a golden age.
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;38888157]Remember the last time we were living in a "Golden Age"?
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/G_Princip_(cropped).jpg[/IMG]
That went down well.[/QUOTE]
I'd say the 1900s were better than the 1800s, minus the two big wars.
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