Lithuania plans to renew military conscription amid fears over Russia
136 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47212490]Estonia doesn't even have tanks, what kind of technological advantage are you talking about?
Russia will just wipe us with their air support after they destroy AA. Our military, in case of attack, are supposed to stand out 3 days until NATO globalizes in case of threat, but no matter how hard we'd want we're outpowered, outmaneveured and outplanned. This is one of the most upsetting things - if shit gets real, Estonia is the frontline for Russian forces, we're such a small country we'll be overrun in a day, and no matter how big hardon do you have for our military, we will never stand more than a day against Russia.
[editline]25th February 2015[/editline]
And to speak about second, Putin is wrong, Putin is right, EU is wrong, EU is right, I do not fucking care. Those are all politically backed power struggles I do not care nor do I wish meddle with. If there were a dire need to fight against, say, ISIS, or an alien invasion or some shit, I'd gladly go to the boot camp. This sort of shit? Won't give a crap. Neither of the governments ever cared for me, so neither will I.[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind that invasions don't materialize out of the ether. Your country will notice and NATO will deploy assistance. You would be the front line, but you wouldn't be alone.
I can't speak for the other NATO nations (though I believe they would be on the same page), but the US would at a societal level feel compelled to uphold NATO agreements. Someone attacking an ally in NATO would have grave results for the aggressor. The US military is designed from the ground up to obliterate uniformed military units. We've spent decades fighting people who fight to the last man and hide in civilian populations. Russian soldiers? Bitch please. They puff themselves up all big, but they don't have the financial power or the hardware to go toe to toe with the US, much less all of NATO on the defense.
You will be fine.
[QUOTE=GunFox;47212609]Keep in mind that invasions don't materialize out of the ether. Your country will notice and NATO will deploy assistance. You would be the front line, but you wouldn't be alone.
I can't speak for the other NATO nations (though I believe they would be on the same page), but the US would at a societal level feel compelled to uphold NATO agreements. Someone attacking an ally in NATO would have grave results for the aggressor. The US military is designed from the ground up to obliterate uniformed military units. We've spent decades fighting people who fight to the last man and hide in civilian populations. Russian soldiers? Bitch please. They puff themselves up all big, but they don't have the financial power or the hardware to go toe to toe with the US, much less all of NATO on the defense.
You will be fine.[/QUOTE]
Also I want to add, that the massing of troops by Russia on our borders would definitely get noticed by the US's advanced satellites, so by the time the first tank rolls across the border we will have NATO support by land, sea and air. Secondly, tanks are not really as effective in Estonia as they are in the Ukraine, because we have lots of forests, while E-Ukr is mostly plains. Tanks mean jack. Estonia will not walk alone.
[QUOTE=GunFox;47212609]Keep in mind that invasions don't materialize out of the ether. Your country will notice and NATO will deploy assistance. You would be the front line, but you wouldn't be alone.
I can't speak for the other NATO nations (though I believe they would be on the same page), but the US would at a societal level feel compelled to uphold NATO agreements. Someone attacking an ally in NATO would have grave results for the aggressor. The US military is designed from the ground up to obliterate uniformed military units. We've spent decades fighting people who fight to the last man and hide in civilian populations. Russian soldiers? Bitch please. They puff themselves up all big, but they don't have the financial power or the hardware to go toe to toe with the US, much less all of NATO on the defense.
You will be fine.[/QUOTE]
Not quite. It would be dumb for Russia to start any invasion when the entire world has eyes fixated on them. If they ever do it, they will do it as fast and unexpected as they did with Crimea.
NATO forces are obligated to deploy units within 3 days. It doesn't mean it will be done in 71 hours, but it also doesn't mean that it will be done within 24. We're in a very risky situation and I doubt US/NATO will always be willing to station a formidable amount of troops in Estonia; and even then, nobody will direct all the troops to Estonia, only just enough to stall the Russian invasion within this region. My skepticism doesn't even help the fact that one of the military officials who were giving us country defense lessons said that himself, backed by my History/Social science teacher.
We're doomed in any circumstances except the one where Russians attack us but forget that after a long drinking night they forgot their ammo.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47212490]Estonia doesn't even have tanks, what kind of technological advantage are you talking about?
[/QUOTE]
It's okay, you can borrow our tank.
[QUOTE=GunFox;47212609]Keep in mind that invasions don't materialize out of the ether. Your country will notice and NATO will deploy assistance. You would be the front line, but you wouldn't be alone.
I can't speak for the other NATO nations (though I believe they would be on the same page), but the US would at a societal level feel compelled to uphold NATO agreements. Someone attacking an ally in NATO would have grave results for the aggressor. The US military is designed from the ground up to obliterate uniformed military units. We've spent decades fighting people who fight to the last man and hide in civilian populations. Russian soldiers? Bitch please. They puff themselves up all big, but they don't have the financial power or the hardware to go toe to toe with the US, much less all of NATO on the defense.
You will be fine.[/QUOTE]
Are you the resident armchair general?
[QUOTE=isreal?;47214223]Are you the resident armchair general?[/QUOTE]
That is kind of how these discussions work.
Relax, Raven. There's a reason our infantry battallions are geared towards versatility, anti-armor capability and, interestingly enough, camouflage and ambush. Getting a couple of tanks is a drain on resources, and ultimately a waste once they get blown the fuck up a few hours in. Same with jets and attack choppers.
Estonia's logistics and power projection are in a way optimized to allow for quick and flexible deployment and such across Estonia (a relatively tiny country) so as to whittle down an aggressor and make invading as costly as possible, instead of attempting to put up a fight via conventional warfare.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;47204313]There have also been talk about Sweden bringing back conscription. It was cancelled when it was my turn :/[/QUOTE]
Swedish army dodged that bullet.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47212490]Estonia doesn't even have tanks, what kind of technological advantage are you talking about?[/QUOTE]
We do, and we're already obligated to defend you under the treaty of Lisbon afaik.
Godspeed my European compatriots. Give Russia hell if the bear attacks.
[QUOTE=isreal?;47214223]Are you the resident armchair general?[/QUOTE]
You should be sorry for your words, Canadian.
honestly this sucks, because i don't really want to fight those scumbags. The only thing that saves me from conscription is that i have a history of epilepsy, if that doesn't help i'll move out to a distant country.
also thanks a lot Putin the faglord
Great, I got my dream job and suddenly this shit happens. Thanks, fuckers.
CAN'T WAIT TO BE CANNON FODDER BECAUSE SOME FUCK IN PARLIAMENT DECIDED IT'S COOL, WOO
[QUOTE=LEETNOOB;47219199]Great, I got my dream job and suddenly this shit happens. Thanks, fuckers.
CAN'T WAIT TO BE CANNON FODDER BECAUSE SOME FUCK IN PARLIAMENT DECIDED IT'S COOL, WOO[/QUOTE]
It's bizarre to me that a country that calls itself free could tell its people to die for [I]the country[/I], rather than for their own beliefs. Dying for your beliefs is joining; dying for the country is enslavement.
[QUOTE=bitches;47219222]It's bizarre to me that a country that calls itself free could tell its people to die for [I]the country[/I], rather than for their own beliefs. Dying for your beliefs is joining; dying for the country is enslavement.[/QUOTE]
Man, you haven't heard the [b]best[/b] part yet. Being abroad DOES NOT RELIEVE ANYONE from being conscripted. People ages 18-38 (yes, up to [b]thirty-fucking-eight[/b] years) CAN be conscripted with no compensation whatsoever. What the fuck is this bullshit? Do they even think about how many lives they're going to ruin? This is going to be the beginning of a mass emigration from this country. I mean, 0.6 mil people already emigrated over the past 10 years I think. (3.5 -> 2.9 mil) It's like they want people to emigrate and make it worse for themselves.
Fucking brainless idiots.
[QUOTE=LEETNOOB;47219242]Man, you haven't heard the [b]best[/b] part yet. Being abroad DOES NOT RELIEVE ANYONE from being conscripted. People ages 18-38 (yes, up to [b]thirty-fucking-eight[/b] years) CAN be conscripted with no compensation whatsoever. What the fuck is this bullshit? Do they even think about how many lives they're going to ruin? This is going to be the beginning of a mass emigration from this country. I mean, 0.6 mil people already emigrated over the past 10 years I think. (3.5 -> 2.9 mil) It's like they want people to emigrate and make it worse for themselves.
Fucking brainless idiots.[/QUOTE]
Being a citizen of a Baltic State nowadays is actually a shitty position. Beats being a Russian citizen, i guess.
I would probably won't try to dodge it . I don't know what to do in my life . I have no hobbies. Just daily routine job/friends and sitting in front of pc.
I don't know how I'd react to being in a country with military conscription. I suppose I've never really been in the position to even think about it. I mean, I get the idea of fighting to protect your people that you have lived with all your life, but fighting for your government? A faceless set of people good and bad? I don't know if they're worth fighting for. In the end it's my decision to choose what I do with my life. I was born in a country and its government hasn't caused any immediate harm to me or my family so I guess what it comes down to is, at the point of time where I'm told to fight for my country, do I believe it is worth fighting for it? I really can't say.
What I definitely hate though is these patriotic assholes trying to shame people for their decisions. They have no fucking place to tell people what they should die for.
Also this conscription excludes everyone with basic military training that you can voluntaraly take part in for 3 months.
So if you can't dodge it with master's studies or something, you're better off just giving away 3 months of your life.
Call me selfish, but I'm not giving my life for my country.
My life is all I will ever have, not going to give it away fighting a war I probably disagree with. Fuck that noise.
Kind of amazing everyone here is so damn certain they would instantly die the moment they're conscripted.
It's not a death sentence.
[editline]26th February 2015[/editline]
And you're all not immediately thrown into infantry.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47221324]Kind of amazing everyone here is so damn certain they would instantly die the moment they're conscripted.
It's not a death sentence.
[editline]26th February 2015[/editline]
And you're all not immediately thrown into infantry.[/QUOTE]
You're a fucking idiot.
I would love to see how you'd sound if you would be chosen to be cannon fodder for a war you don't agree with. If a war breaks out, and the EU is fucking itching for it, then the conscripts will be the first to die. I value my life more than what some fuck in parliament thinks, and there is no fucking way I am staying in this shithole country for any longer if this law passes. I've had enough of this shit corrupt parliament and our idiotic president.
And don't even start with the whole 'MUH PATRIOTISM' bullshit, this country's government has fucked a lot of people over for the past several years (why do you think so many emigrated over the past 10 years out of here? Spoilers: it ain't because life is good here). Ain't no way I'll be a patriot of some fucking corrupt shitheads.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming. 6th ban in a month." - Swebonny))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47221324]Kind of amazing everyone here is so damn certain they would instantly die the moment they're conscripted.
It's not a death sentence.
[editline]26th February 2015[/editline]
And you're all not immediately thrown into infantry.[/QUOTE]
This is not at all what the objection is about and you know it.
[editline]27th February 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=LEETNOOB;47222557]And don't even start with the whole 'MUH PATRIOTISM' bullshit, this country's government has fucked a lot of people over for the past several years (why do you think so many emigrated over the past 10 years out of here? Spoilers: it ain't because life is good here).[b] Ain't no way I'll be a patriot of some fucking corrupt shitheads.[/b][/QUOTE]
So I take it you don't have any family, friends or a significant other to fight for?
[QUOTE=Virtanen;47224057]
So I take it you don't have any family, friends or a significant other to fight for?[/QUOTE]
My life comes first. All my friends would be conscripted too if this was a thing. And I know most of my family would emigrate too since they wouldn't want their teen kids drafted and possibly shot dead. So yeah we can all move somewhere else. As LEETNOOB said, I also wouldn't fight for the shithole Latvia is. My life is just too precious to me, I wouldn't risk that for a country like this.
[QUOTE=Virtanen;47224057]This is not at all what the objection is about and you know it.
[editline]27th February 2015[/editline]
So I take it you don't have any family, friends or a significant other to fight for?[/QUOTE]
Chances are in invasion wouldn't kill his family or friends, especially so if they weren't actively involved in fighting. The government however would suffer massively from regime change, so they stand to lose the most.
By joining the army he wouldn't be directly protecting those he loves, it might even be the opposite affect. He wouldn't be near by to help them move/repair/get food/survive because he would be off on the other side of his country.
You might think differently than he does but don't think for a minute that fighting for ones government means fighting for ones country or ones people/family.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;47224139]Chances are in invasion wouldn't kill his family or friends, especially so if they weren't actively involved in fighting. The government however would suffer massively from regime change, so they stand to lose the most.
By joining the army he wouldn't be directly protecting those he loves, it might even be the opposite affect. He wouldn't be near by to help them move/repair/get food/survive because he would be off on the other side of his country.
You might think differently than he does but don't think for a minute that fighting for ones government means fighting for ones country or ones people/family.[/QUOTE]
alright I take your point, but what I'm saying is that obedience to the government isn't a real reason anyone agrees to go to war for ever. Could've probably worded it better, I agree.
[QUOTE=Virtanen;47224189]I'm saying is that obedience to the government isn't a real reason anyone agrees to go to war for ever[/QUOTE]
I'm not so sure. Propaganda and patriotism is a strong drug.
tbh i have no interest in killing and dying
especially for no reason
nationalism/patriotism is just ugh
[editline]27th February 2015[/editline]
to sum up: conscription can seriously suck a huge dick
luckily i have mild arthritis so i can focus on stuff that actually matters lol
Thank god i'm not an adult. [B]Yet[/B]
[QUOTE=Virtanen;47224057]This is not at all what the objection is about and you know it.
[editline]27th February 2015[/editline]
So I take it you don't have any family, friends or a significant other to fight for?[/QUOTE]
My parents, brother and friends are of the same viewpoint, significant others are no big loss. This country is shit and there is no way to sugar coat this. I am not going to be a "patriot" of a country that fucks it's citizens over and makes slave-tier laws. (forced conscription even for people that are abroad? [b]really?[/b])
Imagine working at some big corporation abroad, making lots of money and pretty much living the dream, but you still have your Lithuanian citizenship. Then one day, some fuck in parliament decides "hey, let's forcibly conscript EVERYONE who has a Lithuanian citizenship, and is ages 18-38, for 9 months!".
So then you win the lottery and get conscripted. You walk up to your boss and you're like "so yeah, this shit happened". Obviously your boss will be like "lol sorry you're fired.", to which you'll reply "B-BUT THE LAWS IN LITHUANIA STATE THAT THE EMPLOYER HAS TO RESERVE THE WORKPLACE UNTIL THE MILITARY SERVICE IS OVER!". Yeah, lol, [i]in Lithuania[/i], not here. They are going to fuck over SO many lives, I don't even fucking understand what they're thinking.
Fighting for your government is a load of shit anyway, especially in circumstances like this, because at that point, you're not fighting to protect your friends, beliefs, family, whatever; you're fighting for an ideology and agenda that some fucks in parliament have in mind. Fuck those porky politicians.
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