• Germany arrests man suspected of spying for US
    49 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;45293641]Publicly denounce Washington lets face it, that's exactly what's going to happen[/QUOTE] What are you talking about, Germany will obviously declare war. And we will be German once again. YESSSSSSS
Why is the US being such a terrible ally since the last decade? Sometimes it seems that they're more of an enemy than the Soviet Union ever was. It's fucking scary.
[QUOTE=Apache249;45298430]I'm assuming you have proof, then?[/QUOTE] the whole fucking point of being allies is that you don't have to infiltrate each others intelligence apparatus and that instead you share info and work together this all started going to hell when the NSA was caught wiretapping Merkels phone, Germany said that it was an outrage and stopped discussion of a trade treaty
[QUOTE=Native Hunter;45296565]basically our allies combined are like a wife[/QUOTE] Ah, so America is the Manliest Man, while all other nations and allies combined are his bitchy wife? Good to know, Thor of Myr.. It's good to know what kind of mentality you hold towards everyone else.. yet I'm the "xenophobic" around here.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;45295487]Every nation does this. Even Finland.[/QUOTE] The only reason they spy is to find out if children have been good or bad for christmas.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;45298543]Ah, so America is the Manliest Man, while all other nations and allies combined are his bitchy wife? Good to know, Thor of Myr.. It's good to know what kind of mentality you hold towards everyone else.. yet I'm the "xenophobic" around here.[/QUOTE] yes, because in my mind clearly this is what every american man looks like [IMG]http://www.paulbunyantrail.com/images/pbcover.jpg[/IMG] for those of you who cant tell, Bat-shit, Im joking
[QUOTE=Joazzz;45293613]why is America so damn paranoid that even allies aren't safe?[/QUOTE] The citizens aren't even "safe" and get spied on
My granddad worked with some germans. One of them said that if you trace owners of most companies and find out who stockholders are, you will eventually reach an american. Like Company > investor bank > investor fund management company > american investor. So I see nothing surprising.
[QUOTE=Native Hunter;45299028]yes, because in my mind clearly this is what every american man looks like [IMG]http://www.paulbunyantrail.com/images/pbcover.jpg[/IMG] for those of you who cant tell, Bat-shit, Im joking[/QUOTE]That is actually me in real life though. Except I don't have Babe, and my axe is different, and I also don't smoke anymore.
It's a damn shame that he was found out. You can never trust those damned blood thirsty Germans. Just you watch-without that patriot spying on them-critical information regarding the secret rebuilding of the Reich will go unnoticed until it is too late.
To be honest, if every country spied on every other country to the extent the US is currently doing as some of you suggest, then the US is doing a comparatively piss poor job of hiding it.
[QUOTE=Apache249;45298430]I'm assuming you have proof, then?[/QUOTE] Well think about it. If Germany was able to discover that their phones were being wiretapped, that means they're doing their job. Then, that means that if we can't figure out that Germany is wiretapping Obama's phones that means that either: a: NSA isn't doing their job correctly b: Germany isn't wiretapping Obama's phone.
[QUOTE=Usernameztaken;45303577]Well think about it. If Germany was able to discover that their phones were being wiretapped, that means they're doing their job. Then, that means that if we can't figure out that Germany is wiretapping Obama's phones that means that either: a: NSA isn't doing their job correctly b: Germany isn't wiretapping Obama's phone.[/QUOTE] c. The US spy fucked it up
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;45303695]c. The US spy fucked it up[/QUOTE] actually it's D, all of the above.
[QUOTE=Usernameztaken;45304063]actually it's D, all of the above.[/QUOTE] Except B.
[QUOTE=Turing;45298495]the whole fucking point of being allies is that you don't have to infiltrate each others intelligence apparatus and that instead you share info and work together [/QUOTE] adorable naiveté
[QUOTE=Turing;45298415]No. Allies of the USA do not for example wiretap Barack Obamas phone, don't place spies in the highest security apparatus etc Of course there are "spies" of Germany in other countries but they are more just security apparatus workers who provide a safety net and work together with other nations No other nation pulls this kind of ridiculous bullshit like USA.[/QUOTE] If Germany isn't tapping Obama's phone, it's probably not because of their ~~higher moral standards~~, but more likely that they don't have the resources. Probably aren't many intelligence agencies in the world that would turn away a chance like that if the were given the opportunity, regardless of whether secrets learned could be put to use or not. Half the point of having intelligence agencies is so that when the unthinkable or unpredictable shit happens that the country has the knowledge of ways to stop it. It's not pretty and DEFINITELY not the best possible scenario, but it's the way things are. If you're expecting the whole world to come together and have no suspicions of each other, well, sorry, it's probably never, ever going to happen.
[QUOTE=DeeCeeTeeBee;45302168]It's a damn shame that he was found out. You can never trust those damned blood thirsty Germans. Just you watch-without that patriot spying on them-critical information regarding the secret rebuilding of the Reich will go unnoticed until it is too late.[/QUOTE] I really hope this is a joke
[QUOTE=Turing;45298495]the whole fucking point of being allies is that you don't have to infiltrate each others intelligence apparatus and that instead you share info and work together this all started going to hell when the NSA was caught wiretapping Merkels phone, Germany said that it was an outrage and stopped discussion of a trade treaty[/QUOTE] You live in a fantasy world were the US is the big evil boogeyman manipulating everyone and everything. You have no proof of your claims. Why wouldn't a nation like Germany want to have a spy in the "highest security apparatus"?
[QUOTE=Turing;45298415]No. Allies of the USA do not for example wiretap Barack Obamas phone, don't place spies in the highest security apparatus etc Of course there are "spies" of Germany in other countries but they are more just security apparatus workers who provide a safety net and work together with other nations No other nation pulls this kind of ridiculous bullshit like USA.[/QUOTE] No, that's totally wrong and you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. You should read literally any book on how intelligence-gathering operates. I'd suggest By Way of Deception, Robert Maxwell: Israel’s Master Spy, or Dirty Work. Or even go read Argo, it was written by Tony Mendez himself. Every country operates an intelligence service that tries to get as much information as they can. It's not about trust. It's not about who your allies are. It's because politicians will lie, and they will withhold vital information, and every country has an express desire in knowing what their neighbors are up to. It's why sudden events like the Iranian Revolution or the dissolution of Yugoslavia are today considered unusual, whereas if you go back a hundred years and look at historical events like the invasion of Poland or the Spanish Civil War, they were commonplace because there was no formal apparatus for governments to keep tabs on one another. The United States maintained for decades the so-called 'rainbow plans', military plans for possible war with close allies, such as the UK (War Plans Red and Red-Orange). It isn't because it was considered a strong likelihood, it's because without any effective way to gather intelligence, political shifts and sudden wars could not be predicted. Nearly every European country maintained similar plans, but today they're considered archaic because of the availability of intelligence. And today the US is far from the only country that does this sort of thing, and spying is not and never has been restricted to only a nation's top enemies, like the popular image of the West united against the Soviets. Sharon Scranage, a CIA officer, was a spy for Ghana. Kendall Myers, State Department, spied for Cuba for over thirty years. Jonathan Pollard, a civilian intelligence analyst, was an Israeli spy. Israel is one of our closest allies, and yet there is a long history of Israeli intelligence (primarily Mossad) seeking to infiltrate the US government. Those are just a few off the top of my head that got into the US government, if we want to talk about spying between the Five Eyes and NATO there are dozens more examples. By the way, you want to talk about the BND, Germany's spy service? There was a scandal in '05 when it got out that back in the 90s they had started a spy program against journalists from their own country to try to contain negative press about German involvement in the Gulf War. Colin Powell's request for military aid from the UN against Iraq in 2003 was based on intelligence collected by the BND, whose agents in Iraq had recruited an informant who claimed that Hussein was in possession of WMDs. And back in '08, one of their main assets in Iran, who provided information on Iranian nuclear development to his BND handlers, was arrested in Germany when it became apparent that he was double-crossing his handlers. There was a scandal. 'Security apparatus workers', my ass. If the German BND could put a tap on Barack Obama's phone, they would do so in a heartbeat, and if you think otherwise you are incredibly naive and uninformed. Our allies aren't mad that we would dare to spy on other countries, they're mad that we're better at it than they are.
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