Anonymous taking on Big Red High School football team from Ohio who raped a blacked out girl, carryi - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Paramud;38959641]An unnecessary risk being something that you did not need to do at all that noticeably increases the chance of danger. Something that could've been prevented with a few simple actions.[/QUOTE] Using your logic you can apply this to anything ie simply walking outside your house. Tell me, Paramud, is everyone who died in Katrina at fault for living close to the water?

[img]http://snag.gy/z1I5S.jpg[/img] i have made this easy to understand chart to pinpoint elecbullet's morals on this issue

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;38959659]Using your logic you can apply this to anything ie simply walking outside your house. Tell me, Paramud, is everyone who died in Katrina at fault for living close to the water?[/QUOTE] this is the point; yes, but absolutely negligibly so it has no implications for society. it's like probability; the chance of flipping a coin and landing on its side exists, right? But it's so small that it has no effect on anything

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;38959646]What is my alternative? If getting drunk makes you somewhat responsible then logically yes, it follows that doing something like going to the bank makes you responsible to a pointlessly negligible extent. I must express this; however, having done so I have no reason to further discuss it because it's meaningless in reality.[/QUOTE] but what you are implying is that people can be blamed for their attacker's actions, which obviously partially negates the responsibility of the attacker. is this the hill you want to die on; arguing a tidbit of information that in your own words doesn't have any relevance to the situation except making you look like an asshole?

[QUOTE=Paramud;38959641]An unnecessary risk being something that you did not need to do at all that noticeably increases the chance of danger. Something that could've been prevented with a few simple actions.[/QUOTE] Do you understand that what you're arguing is that, instead of just not blaming the victim, women should live in constant fear of being raped, constantly considering every single action they take? How about instead of women doing that; you just shut up? That's a lot easier.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38959658]ok then if i am fat, and i end up being attacked by some crazy man and i weigh too much to outrun him, would that make me responsible? being fat could be deemed an unnecessary risk.[/QUOTE] No, because that would not be foreseeable, although you really should take better care of your health anyways. [QUOTE=Governor Goblin;38959659]Using your logic you can apply this to anything ie simply walking outside your house. Tell me, Paramud, is everyone who died in Katrina at fault for living close to the water?[/QUOTE] I can't give you a blanket answer for every victim of that.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38959687]but what you are implying is that people can be blamed for their attacker's actions, which obviously partially negates the responsibility of the attacker. is this the hill you want to die on; arguing a tidbit of information that in your own words doesn't have any relevance to the situation except making you look like an asshole?[/QUOTE] I don't intend to die on any hills any time soon

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;38959684]this is the point; yes, but absolutely negligibly so it has no implications for society. it's like probability; the chance of flipping a coin and landing on its side exists, right? But it's so small that it has no effect on anything[/QUOTE] Except when there's a million fucking assholes on a million message boards and comment sections and 24/7 news channels all saying "maybe she shouldn't have gotten drunk" it starts to have [B]REAL SOCIAL REPERCUSSIONS ON THE ATTITUDES WE HAVE TOWARDS VICTIMS[/B] so how about you make the conscious choice to not be one of those assholes and JUST BLAME THE PERPETRATORS

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;38959684]this is the point; yes, but absolutely negligibly so it has no implications for society. it's like probability; the chance of flipping a coin and landing on its side exists, right? But it's so small that it has no effect on anything[/QUOTE] Okay, you've been asked by about 3 people several times each and I'm going to ask it again, using simple language what is your point? okay, lets make some concessions here and take your misogynistic points and say it's true. Okay, so women are 1% at fault for drinking alcohol when they get raped. So what? What does this accomplish? Why would you tell a rape victim that? Okay, maybe you consider it dumb, sure, Simski had a very good point earlier that victims do have the possibility of being stupid and them being victims doesn't change that, but again, as stated, why does it matter?

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;38959701]I don't intend to die on any hills any time soon[/QUOTE] it's an idiom dude. what i'm saying is that you are vehemently defending your position that there is an absolutely meaningless piece of data out there regarding this rape. if it's really so meaningless to you, you might as well be arguing what color shoes the victim had on that night.

[QUOTE=Paramud;38959697]No, because that would not be foreseeable, although you really should take better care of your health anyways. I can't give you a blanket answer for every victim of that.[/QUOTE] Then don't give a blanket answer for every victim of rape It's easy to deliberate on rape blame when you're a sheltered male, isn't it paramud?

so either you are just the greatest pedant in the world, which puts me to fucking shame, or you have an ulterior reasoning behind why you are arguing that the woman is partially to blame.

at least facepunch has some consistency when it comes to crimes and laying responsibility (incorrectly) sandy shooting happens: blame the guns rape happens: blame the woman

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;38959696]Do you understand that what you're arguing is that, instead of just not blaming the victim, women should live in constant fear of being raped, constantly considering every single action they take?[/QUOTE] Bit of a tangent, but you're the one making this about women. Probably because you're subconsciously assuming that everyone disagreeing with you is a misogynist (which is a bit petty.) But, back on track, I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that we should educate people on taking [b]simple precautions[/b]. I'm sure it's easier for you to just clean up after someone gets raped, tell them that they're an innocent little dove who couldn't've done anything to prevent what happened to them, but [b]it's not the solution[/b]. Do you know what [b]you're[/b] doing? You're making rape easier by telling people they can't do anything to stop it. [editline]oh hamburgers[/editline] [QUOTE=Governor Goblin;38959736]Then don't give a blanket answer for every victim of rape It's easy to deliberate on rape blame when you're a sheltered male, isn't it paramud?[/QUOTE] Normally I wouldn't respond to someone making such ~high quality~ posts, but out of curiosity, are you a female rape victim? Because you really shouldn't play that card if you aren't.

[QUOTE=Paramud;38959774]Bit of a tangent, but you're the one making this about women. Probably because you're subconsciously assuming that everyone disagreeing with you is a misogynist (which is a bit petty.) But, back on track, I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that we should educate people on taking [b]simple precautions[/b]. I'm sure it's easier for you to just clean up after someone gets raped, tell them that they're an innocent little dove who couldn't've done anything to prevent what happened to them, but [b]it's not the solution[/b]. Do you know what [b]you're[/b] doing? You're making rape easier by telling people they can't do anything to stop it.[/QUOTE] you know what works better as a rape-preventer than telling women to fear their own choices? preventing rapists

[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;38959770]at least facepunch has some consistency when it comes to crimes and laying responsibility (incorrectly) sandy shooting happens: blame the guns rape happens: blame the woman[/QUOTE] it's hardly comparable considering a gun wasn't the victim of the shooting nor is it a human being with the possibility of being socially ostracized or shamed.

[QUOTE=Paramud;38959774] Do you know what [b]you're[/b] doing? You're making rape easier by telling people they can't do anything to stop it.[/QUOTE] You know a lot of rape victims blame themselves right? And you arguing that they are at fault also lowers the chance of a rape being reported. Sigma isn't saying you can't prevent rape, he's saying they're not at fault nor should they have to fear rape in a civilised society.

[QUOTE=Bobie;38959787]you know what works better as a rape-preventer than telling women to fear their own choices? preventing rapists[/QUOTE] It's a bit hard to prevent rapists after they've raped, which is what sigma is arguing we should do.

[QUOTE=Paramud;38959818]It's a bit hard to prevent rapists after they've raped, which is what sigma is arguing we should do.[/QUOTE] well i guess we should just tell women that they're going to be responsible for their own rape if they don't watch out then

[QUOTE=Bobie;38959835]well i guess we should just tell women that they're going to be responsible for their own rape if they don't watch out then[/QUOTE] No, we should educate people on how to take simple precautions to prevent it. (like I said)

[QUOTE=Paramud;38959857]No, we should educate people on how to take simple precautions to prevent it. (like I said)[/QUOTE] what precautions would you educate people on, if given the chance

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38959798]it's hardly comparable considering a gun wasn't the victim of the shooting nor is it a human being with the possibility of being socially ostracized or shamed.[/QUOTE] I find the comparision easy to make. laying blame on anything but the perpetrator in these situations represents an ignorance. when crime happens, the blame IS ALWAYS on the person that committed the crime. [QUOTE=Paramud;38959857]No, we should educate people on how to take simple precautions to prevent it. (like I said)[/QUOTE] dont leave the house with those clothes on, you look like a slut!!!!

[QUOTE=Bobie;38959864]what precautions would you educate people on, if given the chance[/QUOTE] Well, one that comes to mind, not to get black out drunk at a party filled with strangers.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;38959727]Okay, you've been asked by about 3 people several times each and I'm going to ask it again, using simple language what is your point? okay, lets make some concessions here and take your misogynistic points and say it's true. Okay, so women are 1% at fault for drinking alcohol when they get raped. So what? What does this accomplish? Why would you tell a rape victim that? Okay, maybe you consider it dumb, sure, Simkas had a very good point earlier that victims do have the possibility of being stupid and them being victims doesn't change that, but again, as stated, why does it matter?[/QUOTE] My argument is "you shouldn't get pass-out drunk at a party". That is honorable. If I tell my future daughters to avoid that, then they may avoid the horrors of being raped. So I shall. You insist that that means I must place responsibility on the victim. Then you insist I must "blame the victim". Having blamed the victim, you insist I declare she is "asking for it". And suddenly, it becomes "Why would you tell a rape victim that?". I fucking would not. You are turning me into a monster. You are making me say things that logically make sense, but are crude to say, and then you criticize me for saying crude things. Why? This is ridiculous. My base motive is honorable.

[QUOTE=Paramud;38959876]Well, one that comes to mind, not to get black out drunk at a party filled with strangers.[/QUOTE] where would you mention that they are partially to blame for their own rape if they do that then

[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;38959871]I find the comparision easy to make. laying blame on anything but the perpetrator in these situations represents an ignorance. when crime happens, the blame IS ALWAYS on the person that committed the crime.[/QUOTE] yea if you look at all ignorance as equal. however, some ignorance results in society devolving or becoming more violent than other types of ignorance.

[QUOTE=Paramud;38959876]Well, one that comes to mind, not to get black out drunk at a party filled with strangers.[/QUOTE] "don't dress provocatively" is another good one [editline]1[/editline] shitvictimblamerssay.txt [editline]2[/editline] "don't be a woman"

[QUOTE=Bobie;38959787]you know what works better as a rape-preventer than telling women to fear their own choices? preventing rapists[/QUOTE] Sure would be fine and dandy to prevent murderers, thieves, scammers, and all sorts of other criminals, too, but you would still be a colossal jackass if you told someone that them giving advice to avoid being mugged is bad and they're just teaching people to be afraid and really there's nothing they can do to avoid being murdered/mugged/scammed anyways and should just roll with it. Advising caution doesn't presuppose blame on the part of the victim.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;38959880]My argument is "you shouldn't get pass-out drunk at a party". That is honorable. If I tell my future daughters to avoid that, then they may avoid the horrors of being raped. So I shall. You insist that that means I must place responsibility on the victim. Then you insist I must "blame the victim". Having blamed the victim, you insist I declare she is "asking for it". And suddenly, it becomes "Why would you tell a rape victim that?". I fucking would not. You are turning me into a monster. You are making me say things that logically make sense, but are crude to say, and then you criticize me for saying crude things. Why? This is ridiculous. My base motive is honorable.[/QUOTE] there's a difference between saying "you shouldn't get black out drunk at a party" and saying "the rape victim shouldn't have gotten black out drunk at that party" one is a piece of advice, the other is blaming a rape victim. it might look subtle, but there is really a world of difference between the two.

[QUOTE=Bobie;38959889]where would you mention that they are partially to blame for their own rape if they do that then[/QUOTE] If they are. There are rape victims who genuinely had no way of preventing what happened to them, you know. [QUOTE=Dori;38959908]"don't dress provocatively" is another good one [editline]1[/editline] shitvictimblamerssay.txt[/QUOTE] Hi dori, how are you?