[QUOTE=gastyne;48328999]He didn't have a warrant to search his car at all right?
This cop should go to jail for a long time.[/QUOTE]
You don't need a warrant to search if you have probably cause...
[editline]29th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=gastyne;48329010]Like... a tazer gun?[/QUOTE]
"I'm just going to tase this dude behind the wheel of a vehicle"
what the hell
[QUOTE=Kyle902;48329012]
"I'm just going to tase this dude behind the wheel of a vehicle"
what the hell[/QUOTE]
Are you implying blowing his brains out is the better option?
[QUOTE=gastyne;48329021]Are you implying blowing his brains out is the better option?[/QUOTE]
Yes actually because both options are likely just as lethal. Tasing him, however, puts other people in danger.
[QUOTE=gastyne;48329021]Are you implying blowing his brains out is the better option?[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about a fantasy world where we have something that's like a taser but far more useful and just as effective, for the time being, as blowing someone's brains out, but without actually having a corpse on your hands at the end of the day. Tasers don't always work and aren't necessarily the safest option for you if you're trying not to die.
I realize this adds nothing constructive to the current discussion, but [I]man[/I] do I wish...
The second somebody disobeys a cop is when you deserve to get shot. Cops arent your friends or family members, theyre there to fix the faulty ones. Atleast thats how it should be for america where almost everybody can get weapons.
so let me get this straight:
a cop pulls over a guy, guy tries to run away from the cop, thus becoming a criminal because that's illegal, ends up getting shot
i don't understand the issue here, the cop did his job. this happens every time a thread gets posted regarding police, too bad we don't see the 'shoot him in the leg' posts anymore for people to realize how silly they sound
[editline]30th July 2015[/editline]
so many edgy cop haters on fp, i swear
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;48329098]so let me get this straight:
a cop pulls over a guy, guy tries to run away from the cop, thus becoming a criminal because that's illegal, ends up getting shot
i don't understand the issue here, the cop did his job. this happens every time a thread gets posted regarding police, too bad we don't see the 'shoot him in the leg' posts anymore for people to realize how silly they sound
[editline]30th July 2015[/editline]
so many edgy cop haters on fp, i swear[/QUOTE]
Yeah instead of shoot him in the leg posts we get "Taze the dude behind the wheel of a motor vehicle" posts.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;48328371]same mindset as telling people that were raped that "they had it coming"[/QUOTE]
No because there is one huge difference: When that cop is walking towards your car after pulling you over, he or she has no way of knowing if you are going to try and kill them. Unlike a predator, who is targeting vulnerable prey, the cop is as vulnerable as you are in that walk up to your car.
This is why showing your hands at all times is a good idea. Leaving your keys visible on the the dashboard or seat is a good idea. Not reaching or grabbing for anything unless instructed to do so is a good idea. Answering yes/no in a clear voice, working WITH the cop as much as you can...all this serves the purpose of showing effort on your part to [i]not fuck with the cops[/i].
The cops are armed and nervous as hell until they see what's up with you, do you really think it's okay to act sketchy when they pull you over?
This guy was pulled over, he was stopped, the cop was right there. It's over, whatever they got him for, they got him for. Then he starts the car to make a run for it? That's not victim blaming, that driver threw gasoline on a fire.
I definitely don't see the shooting as justified, but I most definitely do not see, even in the slightest bit, as murder.
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;48329098]so let me get this straight:
a cop pulls over a guy, guy tries to run away from the cop, thus becoming a criminal because that's illegal, ends up getting shot
i don't understand the issue here, the cop did his job. this happens every time a thread gets posted regarding police, too bad we don't see the 'shoot him in the leg' posts anymore for people to realize how silly they sound
[editline]30th July 2015[/editline]
so many edgy cop haters on fp, i swear[/QUOTE]
Guys disobeys cops orders, guy gets shot.
Nice, that is tottaly okay, and the cop can shoot anyone who disrespects him in hte slightest because he is a cop.
Don't be stupid...
He deserved to be shot because he is a criminal?
What if he shoplifted something? Should the cop murder him then too?
[QUOTE=LaTrefle;48329094]The second somebody disobeys a cop is when you deserve to get shot. .[/QUOTE]
I'd disagree. That's a bit stretching it. If you do disobey a cop you do need to expect use of force though.
[QUOTE=gastyne;48329216]Guys disobeys cops orders, guy gets shot.
Nice, that is tottaly okay, and the cop can shoot anyone who disrespects him in hte slightest because he is a cop.
Don't be stupid...
He deserved to be shot because he is a criminal?
What if he shoplifted something? Should the cop murder him then too?[/QUOTE]
Get help. Really, if you're being serious there's something seriously wrong with how you're interpreting statements.
He's stating he's not surprised someone being combative with a cop also got shot, not that he should have gotten shot because he was being combative.
Jesus.
The fact that there isnt unanimous outrage at cases like these makes me ashamed that I live on the same planet as some of you.
[QUOTE=Flameon;48329270]The fact that there isnt unanimous outrage at cases like these makes me ashamed that I live on the same planet as some of you.[/QUOTE]
The fact that there is instills the same sentiment
:ass:
[QUOTE=Sonador;48329251]Get help. Really, if you're being serious there's something seriously wrong with how you're interpreting statements.
He's stating he's not surprised someone being combative with a cop also got shot, not that he should have gotten shot because he was being combative.
Jesus.[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about he literally said
"a cop pulls over a guy, guy tries to run away from the cop, thus becoming a criminal because that's illegal, ends up getting shot"
Aparently the job of a police officer is to kill criminals. I wasn't aware this was the wild west.
[editline]30th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sonador;48329275]The fact that there is instills the same sentiment
:ass:[/QUOTE]
Even if the cop acted within 100% of his legal rights, clearly the laws need to be fucking torn to shreds if we allow behavior like this to happen.
[QUOTE=Flameon;48329281]What are you talking about he literally said
"a cop pulls over a guy, guy tries to run away from the cop, thus becoming a criminal because that's illegal, ends up getting shot"
Aparently the job of a police officer is to kill criminals. I wasn't aware this was the wild west.[/QUOTE]
The job of a police officer is to detain criminals to prevent them from harming others or committing further crimes. The officer attempted to detain the criminal. The criminal attempted to flee, potentially putting others at risk.
[QUOTE=LaTrefle;48329094]The second somebody disobeys a cop is when you deserve to get shot. Cops arent your friends or family members, theyre there to fix the faulty ones. Atleast thats how it should be for america where almost everybody can get weapons.[/QUOTE]
Holyshit.
[editline]30th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;48329288]The job of a police officer is to detain criminals to prevent them from harming others or committing further crimes. The officer attempted to detain the criminal. The criminal attempted to flee, potentially putting others at risk.[/QUOTE]
He wasn't VIOLENT. Do we shoot everone who flees from police?
Do you have any reason to think this dude was going to be a threat to other people?!?!?
[QUOTE=Flameon;48329290]
He wasn't VIOLENT. Do we shoot everone who flees from police?
Do you have any reason to think this dude was going to be a threat to other people?!?!?[/QUOTE]
Yes. If someone is willing to flee from an officer they are willing to drive recklessly. This is only furthered by the fact he was operating a motor vehicle without a license. Driving recklessly is endangering the lives of other people.
Even if he wasn't violent with a weapon he still was resisting arrest, and tried to fight the officer when the officer attempted to remove him from the vehicle.
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;48329303]Yes. If someone is willing to flee from an officer they are willing to drive recklessly. This is only furthered by the fact he was operating a motor vehicle without a license. Driving recklessly is endangering the lives of other people.
Even if he wasn't violent with a weapon he still was resisting arrest, and tried to fight the officer when the officer attempted to remove him from the vehicle.[/QUOTE]
Look at the way your language jumps to conclusions, holyshit dude what the heck?
"Drive Recklessly" - what part of what he did indicated he was driving recklessly? He wasn't pulled over for violating any traffic laws. he didn't run stop signs, make illegal turns, any of that. He was pulled over because his car didn't have a license plate.
"Endangering the lives of other people" there you go again. When the police start the siren even for SPEEDERS (please remember he did not speed, in fact, he fucking stopped for an officer and then only then started to [argueably] drive away) do you think that if they don't pull over the police should start shooting? Are they such a threat they should be put down?
"Fight the officer" - fight?? I agree he resisted arrest insofar as he didn't go limp in the officers arms. Fight?? What? I promise you that you will also be stiff if an officer tried to yank you out of a car. And as for resisting, lets not forget this dude is clearly fucking terrified in this traffic stop, listen to his voice. Clearly he was fearing for his life and was right to fear.
This is an absolute tragedy. Even if the officer was 100% justified by whatever archaic system we have in place, it just goes to show we need to reform in what situations an officer is allowed to use lethal force. If this meets the bar, the bar is too low.
[QUOTE=Flameon;48329328]
"[B]Drive Recklessly[/B]" - what part of what he did indicated he was driving recklessly? He wasn't pulled over for violating any traffic laws. he didn't run stop signs, make illegal turns, any of that. He was pulled over because his car didn't have a license plate.[/QUOTE]
Probably the part where he drove off with the officer still partly in the car, dragging him along.
[QUOTE=Flameon;48329328]
"Fight the officer" - fight?? I agree he resisted arrest insofar as he didn't go limp in the officers arms. Fight?? What? I promise you that you will also be stiff if an officer tried to yank you out of a car. And as for resisting, lets not forget this dude is [B]clearly fucking terrified in this traffic stop[/B], listen to his voice. Clearly he was fearing for his life and was right to fear.
[/QUOTE]
Not because he was fearing for his life, because he was afraid he was going to get busted driving without his licence.
[QUOTE=Flameon;48329328]Look at the way your language jumps to conclusions, holyshit dude what the heck?
"Drive Recklessly" - what part of what he did indicated he was driving recklessly? He wasn't pulled over for violating any traffic laws. he didn't run stop signs, make illegal turns, any of that. He was pulled over because his car didn't have a license plate.
"Endangering the lives of other people" there you go again. When the police start the siren even for SPEEDERS (please remember he did not speed, in fact, he fucking stopped for an officer and then only then started to [argueably] drive away) do you think that if they don't pull over the police should start shooting? Are they such a threat they should be put down?
"Fight the officer" - fight?? I agree he resisted arrest insofar as he didn't go limp in the officers arms. Fight?? What? I promise you that you will also be stiff if an officer tried to yank you out of a car. And as for resisting, lets not forget this dude is clearly fucking terrified in this traffic stop, listen to his voice. Clearly he was fearing for his life and was right to fear.
This is an absolute tragedy. Even if the officer was 100% justified by whatever archaic system we have in place, it just goes to show we need to reform in what situations an officer is allowed to use lethal force. If this meets the bar, the bar is too low.[/QUOTE]
Drive recklessly. If you run from an officer it's assumed that you're not afraid to take risks. Taking risks includes driving recklessly and not following the laws that keep people safe on the road.
Endangering the lives of other people by driving recklessly and not following the laws that keep people safe on the road.
Fight the officer as in resisting arrest and trying to keep the door shut.
[QUOTE=plunger435;48329367]Probably the part where he drove off with the officer still partly in the car, dragging him along.[/quote]
"Drove off with the officer still partly in the car, dragging him along" - you think this is an accurate depiction of what happened?
He yells stop twice before the bullet flies; the vehicle barely travels a few feet before he is shot point black in the face.
And even if you are right in your depiction of the events .. so what? The officer had to shoot him to death because he was afraid the person was going to use his car to attack innocents? Use it as a deadly weapon? ... What?
[quote]
Not because he was fearing for his life, because he was afraid he was going to get busted driving without his licence.[/QUOTE]
Whether you think the fear is justified or not, for many black people an encounter with the police is terrifying.
[editline]30th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;48329386]Drive recklessly. If you run from an officer it's assumed that you're not afraid to take risks. Taking risks includes driving recklessly and not following the laws that keep people safe on the road.
Endangering the lives of other people by driving recklessly and not following the laws that keep people safe on the road.
Fight the officer as in resisting arrest and trying to keep the door shut.[/QUOTE]
So are people who run yellow rights, that doesn't mean the kind of threat they are to others requires anything close to lethal force. In this case how dare you even suggest lethal force was justified or needed to defuse the situation.
I guess you are okay with police officers shooting at speeders then??
He was RESISTING the officer. The officer was not harmed. I would say he fought the officer only in the loosest interretation of what fighting means (this includes trying to keep the door shut). But for the sake of not trying to paint a picture where he tried to harm the officer or struck him (which didnt happen) lets use more precise language.
[QUOTE=Sonador;48329251]
He's stating he's not surprised someone being combative with a cop also got shot, not that he should have gotten shot because he was being combative.
Jesus.[/QUOTE]
No, he said the cop did his job.
Well he did a shit job.
Was the guy in the car armed or violent?
No, he was disrespecting a cop which is the worst offense you can commit.
[QUOTE=Flameon;48329401]"Drove off with the officer still partly in the car, dragging him along" - you think this is an accurate depiction of what happened?
He yells stop twice before the bullet flies; the vehicle barely travels a few feet before he is shot point black in the face.
And even if you are right in your depiction of the events .. so what? The officer had to shoot him to death because he was afraid the person was going to use his car to attack innocents? Use it as a deadly weapon? ... What?
[/QUOTE]
Obviously he wasn't going, 'He's a madman going to run over school children!', he was probably thinking, 'Holy shit this dude is dragging me I don't want to die.'
[QUOTE=Flameon;48329401]Whether you think the fear is justified or not, for many black people an encounter with the police is terrifying.[/QUOTE]
I didn't realize you were an expert on African-American psychology during traffic stops, or that that is even a thing separate from everyone else, people are usually more afraid about the obvious laws they're breaking when talking to police than they are of getting randomly shot. Regardless of race.
I feel like that might be a racist generalization.
[QUOTE=Flameon;48329401]
So are people who run yellow rights, that doesn't mean the kind of threat they are to others requires anything close to lethal force. In this case how dare you even suggest lethal force was justified or needed to defuse the situation.
I guess you are okay with police officers shooting at speeders then??
He was RESISTING the officer. The officer was not harmed. I would say he fought the officer only in the loosest interretation of what fighting means (this includes trying to keep the door shut). But for the sake of not trying to paint a picture where he tried to harm the officer or struck him (which didnt happen) lets use more precise language.[/QUOTE]
There is a difference between speeding or running yellow lights compared to running from a police officer and risk losing control of the vehicle. Also notice that we punish people for speeding.
[QUOTE=LaTrefle;48329094]The second somebody disobeys a cop is when you deserve to get shot. Cops arent your friends or family members, theyre there to fix the faulty ones. Atleast thats how it should be for america where almost everybody can get weapons.[/QUOTE]
No way this is a serious post.
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;48329459]There is a difference between speeding or running yellow lights compared to running from a police officer and risk losing control of the vehicle. Also notice that we punish people for speeding.[/QUOTE]
No one is arguing that we Debose shouldn't have been punished. The reason people are upset is not that they think Debuose should have gotten a get out of jail free card. People are upset because he is dead. His life was taken from him because he chose to run from the police. That is why people are upset.
In a high speed chase from an officer, I guess you are for shooting the driver? Or hell, god damn. There could have been TIME for Debose, if a chase ensued, for him to slow down and stop. But no. We got 2 "Stops!" and bullets. There is probably three seconds between the officer speaking and him firing a fatal shot, point blank.
[QUOTE=plunger435;48329444]Obviously he wasn't going, 'He's a madman going to run over school children!', he was probably thinking, 'Holy shit this dude is dragging me I don't want to die.'
[/quote]
So let go of the car. Don't shoot him to death. Dragging me? He started driving off and the officer shot. If the officer feared for his life in those 3 seconds then we need better trained officers and people who don't assume black people are walking threats to white bodily integrity.
[quote]I didn't realize you were an expert on African-American psychology during traffic stops, or that that is even a thing separate from everyone else, people are usually more afraid about the obvious laws they're breaking when talking to police than they are of getting randomly shot. Regardless of race.
I feel like that might be a racist generalization.[/QUOTE]
Unless you have haven't paid attention to the news or the probably scarce number of African-Americans on your facebook feed, you would know that black America is pretty upset right now (as they have been since the Rodney King beating and many incidents before) with the police.
This data is old, [url]http://www.prisonpolicy.org/prisonindex/policeconfidence.html[/url], but something to chew on.
American cops trigger happy as usually.
[QUOTE=Flameon;48329497]No one is arguing that we Debose shouldn't have been punished. The reason people are upset is not that they think Debuose should have gotten a get out of jail free card. People are upset because he is dead. His life was taken from him because he chose to run from the police. That is why people are upset.
In a high speed chase from an officer, I guess you are for shooting the driver? Or hell, god damn. There could have been TIME for Debose, if a chase ensued, for him to slow down and stop. But no. We got 2 "Stops!" and bullets. There is probably three seconds between the officer speaking and him firing a fatal shot, point blank.
So let go of the car. Don't shoot him to death. Dragging me? He started driving off and the officer shot. If the officer feared for his life in those 3 seconds then we need better trained officers and people who don't assume black people are walking threats to white bodily integrity.
Unless you have haven't paid attention to the news or the probably scarce number of African-Americans on your facebook feed, you would know that black America is pretty upset right now (as they have been since the Rodney King beating and many incidents before) with the police.
This data is old, [url]http://www.prisonpolicy.org/prisonindex/policeconfidence.html[/url], but something to chew on.[/QUOTE]
Being dragged under a car can easily kill, and letting go doesn't exactly solve anything. You can clearly see in the footage he ends up further down the road when he stands back up.
Nothing about the officer has shown a history of racism either, nor was any shown in the video.
I'm not even sure how you've shifted this to a racial issue considering no one involved in the case believes it to be one. Though thanks for trying to make the assumption that I don't know African-Americans?
Officers aren't scared of the race of the driver during traffic stops, they're scared of the stops themselves. Sonador can weigh in, but the few officers I've been friends with have seen the training videos of them going horribly wrong, and why they need to be cautious during them.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;48326875]The car was already moving when the officer shot. If you take a look at the picture I posted(as well as the video), its clear the man who was shot was trying to floor it.[/QUOTE]
Ohhhhh I thought you were asking "why did the guy gas it?" and I was implying his body went limp and his foot engaged the accelerator.
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