Two years after the Gaza War, Gaza remains imprisoned - Polidicks

Here's a source to my previous claim regarding GPS, if you wanted it: [url]http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/07/2460411.htm[/url] [quote]"Hundreds of people were taking refuge in the school from the fighting. We have given all our GPS coordinates to the Israeli army - we have told them exactly where all our facilities are in the Gaza Strip and all of our facilities are clearly marked. So it should have been quite obvious where the UN facilities are."[/quote]

[QUOTE=Devodiere;27139773]So because there are a lot of civlians there, they aren't allowed to do anything and just let them continue to organise attacks? They knew it was a populated city but just not doing anything about it for that reason is just as irresponsible. Those videos for anyone who actually watches them, are western farmers thinking yelling over a microphone in English while warning shots are fired on them is a good idea and a guy who was being uncooperative being shot with a rubber bullet and the IDF putting it under investigation. Not intentional lethal shooting of civilians at all. When I said fixing their methods I meant using precision air strikes to take out a single target with minimal casualties and police style actions in the west bank to concentrate forces where they are needed. They fix their methods, not by doing anything. Also they didn't fuck up all of Gaza. It was a fair bit of damage but there were still lots of people untouched by it.[/QUOTE] Maybye if you read the video description, also they were using lethal rounds: [quote]The farmers were in the process of leaving when the IDF shot. And the IDF continued to shoot as the farmers tried to leave, continued to shoot, sniper-style, as the farmers cowered for cover. It was aggression for the sake of aggression. The life of a farmer is never easy, and is all the more difficult for farmers in the buffer zone, the band of land which has been imposed and extended arbitrarily to 1 km from the Green Line (on the Gaza side, not the Israeli side) by the occupying force which insists it has withdrawn from Gaza [yet somehow controls borders, imports and exports, and the entry of humanitarian aid (entry denied), and which can impose no-go zones in a land not its own, for its safety' (as with the separation wall cutting deeply into the west bank and carving the occupied land into smaller, militarily-controlled, chunks, the imposition of a "buffer zone" on Palestinian land in Gaza begs the question: if Israel is erecting the Wall and imposing no-go zones out of safety concerns, why not do so on Israeli land?)].They were close to again killing an impoverished farm-worker. On 27 January, in the same area, IDF soldiers [b]killed 27 year old Anwar Zayed al-Buraim, shooting him in the neck while he picked vegetables on land approximately 600 metres from the Green Line[/b]. Anwar was Mohammeds cousin. These fertile rural eastern border areas of the Gaza Strip are emptying, because farmers, many of whom have farmed here for generations, are now too frightened to live and work on their own land. The confines of the Gaza Strip, which is just forty kilometers long and ten kilometers wide, are being shrunk even further by relentless Israeli invasions, by the imposition of an arbitrary and expanding buffer zone and by the targeting of civilians and farmers trying to live on and earn a living from their land. Mohammed al-Buraim marks the fourth shooting of Palestinians in the buffer zone in the last few weeks. The three shootings prior to Mohammeds were: on 18 January, Maher Abu-Rajileh (24), from Huzaah village, east of Khan Younis, [b]was killed by IDF soldiers[/b] while working on his land 400m from the Green Line; on 20 January, at 1 pm, Israeli soldiers [b]shot Waleed al-Astal (42) of Al Qarara, near Khan Younis, in his right foot[/b]; and on 27 January, Anwar al-Buraim [b]was shot in the neck and killed[/b]. While attacks on farmers in other border communities, especially those on the Israeli side, would not go unnoticed, somehow the international community remains silent about these deaths, injuries, and breaches of international law.[/quote] And how come you didint comment on the other videos, cant make an excuse? Also they didint fuck up gaza? Did you even watch the news at the time? [img]http://tinyrevolution.com/mt/mt-static/images/rafah_gaza.jpg[/img] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Orphanschoolmosque.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2008/12/29/gaza-cp-w6026954.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.enduringamerica.com/storage/blog-post-images/GAZA%20RUBBLE.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1288241851488[/img] [img]http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/photos/gzsmll/gaza02.jpg[/img] [img]http://blog.lsinsight.org/uploaded_images/Attack-on-Gaza-770070.jpg[/img] Also keep in mind this is what Gaza used to look like before israel Bombed the hell out of them [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Gaza_City.JPG[/img]

[QUOTE=Random94;27140471]Maybye if you read the video description, also they were using lethal rounds: And how come you didint comment on the other videos, cant make an excuse? Also they didint fuck up gaza? Did you even watch the news at the time? [img_thumb]http://tinyrevolution.com/mt/mt-static/images/rafah_gaza.jpg[/img_thumb] [img_thumb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Orphanschoolmosque.jpg[/img_thumb] [img_thumb]http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2008/12/29/gaza-cp-w6026954.jpg[/img_thumb] [img_thumb]http://www.enduringamerica.com/storage/blog-post-images/GAZA%20RUBBLE.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1288241851488[/img_thumb] [img_thumb]http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/photos/gzsmll/gaza02.jpg[/img_thumb] [img_thumb]http://blog.lsinsight.org/uploaded_images/Attack-on-Gaza-770070.jpg[/img_thumb] Also keep in mind this is what Gaza used to look like before israel Bombed the hell out of them [img_thumb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Gaza_City.JPG[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] Take a good look at Iraq to. Also comparing destroyed buildings with other perfectly fine ones isn't really a perfect argument. [QUOTE=Starpluck;27140437]Here's a source to my previous claim regarding GPS, if you wanted it: [url]http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/07/2460411.htm[/url][/QUOTE] Oh snap! Israel is evil monsters that want to kill everyone including the UN! This is totally ordered from somewhere higher up! Perhaps the illuminati or the zionist movement want to erase these people from existence!

[QUOTE=Brage Nyman;27140494]Oh snap! Israel is evil monsters that want to kill everyone including the UN! This is totally ordered from somewhere higher up! Perhaps the illuminati or the zionist movement want to erase these people from existence![/QUOTE] Another full retard post. Good thread, i can tell. [editline]1st January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Random94;27140471]Maybye if you read the video description, also they were using lethal rounds: And how come you didint comment on the other videos, cant make an excuse? Also they didint fuck up gaza? Did you even watch the news at the time? [/QUOTE] You're making an emotional argument, and I'm pretty sure you're right about a lot of the issues, but you're really hinging your argument on that emotional shock value of the damage they unrightfully caused

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27140507]Another full retard post. Good thread, i can tell.[/QUOTE] he's a self-proclaimed fascist. i dont think it's just his posts that are retarded

[QUOTE=Devodiere;27140355]They had reports that there were Hamas militants within the camp. They seemingly didn't check their intel and fucked up bombing a UN encampment, but that was not indiscriminate. However stupidly they decided to do it, they still aimed for them.[/QUOTE] And who said Hamas militants were hiding in the camp? [editline]2nd January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Brage Nyman;27140494]Take a good look at Iraq to.[/quote] At least Iraq rebuilt, Gaza wants to, but cant due to blockades, also Gaza is mostly Uraban, Iraq is an entire fucking Country [editline]2nd January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27140507]You're making an emotional argument, and I'm pretty sure you're right about a lot of the issues, but you're really hinging your argument on that emotional shock value of the damage they unrightfully caused[/QUOTE] Well according to reports that's what happened.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27140507]Another full retard post. Good thread, i can tell. [editline]1st January 2011[/editline] You're making an emotional argument, and I'm pretty sure you're right about a lot of the issues, but you're really hinging your argument on that emotional shock value of the damage they unrightfully caused[/QUOTE] Retard logic need a retard answer. I give them what they want. [QUOTE=Lachz0r;27140536]he's a self-proclaimed fascist. i dont think it's just his posts that are retarded[/QUOTE] I don't think they are quite that retarded, i actually think sarcasm is a good way to make a point.

[QUOTE=Random94;27140471]Maybye if you read the video description, also they were using lethal rounds: And how come you didint comment on the other videos, cant make an excuse? [/quote] It's called warning shots. Surely you would try to cooperate with them instead of just sitting there are hoping they leave you alone. The soldiers probably didn't even understand english so they had no idea what they were saying to them. You don't fuck around with soldiers and these guys were too retarded to even try. Only saw you post 2 videos so I only commented on them. You want me to go back and mention the others? [quote]Also they didint fuck up gaza? Did you even watch the news at the time? -pictas-[/QUOTE] Back to posting pictures eh? They blew up lots of buildings obviously, but they didn't blow up the entire city. Look up some pictures of Stalingrad, that was completely destroyed. Gaza just has a few buildings destroyed, they take closeup pictures of them and it makes it look like the entire city is in ruins. Even those pictures you posted, look in the background and you can see there's still plenty of buildings around them that are just fine. Get me a nice big vista like that last one of the city as it is now, and see if the entire city is still blown to hell. [editline]2nd January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Random94;27140540]And who said Hamas militants were hiding in the camp?[/QUOTE] They had reports from some soldiers saying they saw militants firing from the UN camp. Instead of verifying it, they just shelled them. An incredibly stupid move by whoever organised it, but still not indiscriminate bombing.

[QUOTE=Random94;27140540] At least Iraq rebuilt, Gaza wants to, but cant due to blockades, also Gaza is mostly Uraban, Iraq is an entire fucking Country.[/QUOTE] This is correct. Many UN officials have expressed their disappointment since Israel does not allow construction material into Gaza

[QUOTE=Starpluck;27140686]This is correct. Many UN officials have expressed their disappointment since Israel does not allow construction material into Gaza[/QUOTE] From their point of view, it is a security concern. If the material does not get to the people who need it and instead goes to militants, they can use it to construct weapon smuggling tunnels. IIRC they let some materials in if it's under the supervision of an aid group but that doesn't happen very often, or not enough for people to stop complaining. Also Iraq is different, the conflict is mostly over there. In Gaza it is still continuing and Hamas is still going strong. Obviously when the conflict dies down they will have less reason to stop materials from getting in but until then, they would prefer to settle the conflict.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;27140652]It's called warning shots. Surely you would try to cooperate with them instead of just sitting there are hoping they leave you alone. The soldiers probably didn't even understand english so they had no idea what they were saying to them. You don't fuck around with soldiers and these guys were too retarded to even try.[/quote] They didint sit and wait for them to leave, and they were telling them to stop shooting them and i honestly doubt that these soldiers didint have an officer that could at least speak english. [QUOTE=Devodiere;27140652]Get me a nice big vista like that last one of the city as it is now, and see if the entire city is still blown to hell.[/QUOTE] What you mean something like this? [img]http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/84135272.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA5486B907CE56C403EEB85026E04ADE45B713D4468DBCD875464E30A760B0D811297[/img] [editline]2nd January 2011[/editline] Actually this video (sort of) shows the similarity between Israel and the Nazis: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Joc_D93WU&feature=related[/url]

[QUOTE=Random94;27141082]They didint sit and wait for them to leave, and they were telling them to stop shooting them and i honestly doubt that these soldiers didint have an officer that could at least speak english.[/quote] I'm sure their crops were so important that they couldn't stop yelling over the megaphone and at least send someone over there. They were being uncooperative and just because you tell someone you aren't a threat to them, surprising as it may seem they often don't believe you. He didn't deserve to be shot, but as I said before, you don't fuck around with soldiers because they are far more interested in not getting blown up than a random civilian being a douche. [quote]What you mean something like this? [img_thumb]http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/84135272.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA5486B907CE56C403EEB85026E04ADE45B713D4468DBCD875464E30A760B0D811297[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] No, of the full city. The smoke is also misleading because it covers a lot of buildings that are still standing. Even that though, in the distance the rest of the city is still standing and ok. The destruction is not as widespread as you think it is. Gaza is a big place, they would have a hard time bombing the shit out of all of it. [editline]2nd January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Random94;27141082]Actually this video (sort of) shows the similarity between Israel and the Nazis: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Joc_D93WU&feature=related[/url][/QUOTE] Oh my god, forget all that shit I said about random pictures meaning absolutely nothing, THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING. For fucks sake, are you that dense? The only similarities are the standard civilian trauma experienced everywhere. War zones are similar everywhere, pictures just show it. If you think things you experience in the field are what make similarities, you must be very shallow.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;27141283]I'm sure their crops were so important that they couldn't stop yelling over the megaphone and at least send someone over there. They were being uncooperative and just because you tell someone you aren't a threat to them, surprising as it may seem they often don't believe you. He didn't deserve to be shot, but as I said before, you don't fuck around with soldiers because they are far more interested in not getting blown up than a random civilian being a douche.[/QUOTE] Uncooperative? You get warned of being shot at first, not shoot just them at the beggining. [QUOTE=Devodiere;27141283]No, of the full city. The smoke is also misleading because it covers a lot of buildings that are still standing. Even that though, in the distance the rest of the city is still standing and ok. The destruction is not as widespread as you think it is. Gaza is a big place, they would have a hard time bombing the shit out of all of it.[/QUOTE] Well thats one of the only full pictures of gaza during the war (what did you expect, clear skies?) [QUOTE=Devodiere;27141283]For fucks sake, are you that dense? The only similarities are the standard civilian trauma experienced everywhere. War zones are similar everywhere, pictures just show it. If you think things you experience in the field are what make similarities, you must be very shallow.[/QUOTE] I never knew all warzones had giant seperation walls.

[QUOTE=Random94;27141550]Uncooperative? You get warned of being shot at first, not shoot just them at the beggining. Well thats one of the only full pictures of gaza during the war (what did you expect, clear skies?) I never knew all warzones had giant seperation walls.[/QUOTE] just drop the stupid fucking nazi comparisons. it's not like you need them to point out the shitty things israel does they just make you look like a fuckwit whos only arguement is THEY'RE AS BADDDD AS NAZIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE=Devodiere;27140652]They had reports from some soldiers saying they saw militants firing from the UN camp. Instead of verifying it, they just shelled them. An incredibly stupid move by whoever organised it, but still not indiscriminate bombing.[/QUOTE] Not indiscriminate? They were shelling a Refugee camp! [editline]2nd January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Lachz0r;27141603]just drop the stupid fucking nazi comparisons. it's not like you need them to point out the shitty things israel does they just make you look like a fuckwit whos only arguement is THEY'RE AS BADDDD AS NAZIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE] I wasnt comparing them to the nazis in that post, also if you thought i was comparing them to the nazis beecause of saying there is a seperation wall, there is one if you didint know. [img]http://palestinenote.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/news/3125.800px_2D00_Boy_5F00_and_5F00_soldier_5F00_in_5F00_front_5F00_of_5F00_Israeli_5F00_wall.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;27125781][img_thumb]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fQD_UfiH5iA/SnNqtvmnEkI/AAAAAAAABfU/O5kcd8KfMjg/s400/dead+nazi.jpg[/img_thumb] [img_thumb]http://www.cerebral-coffins.com/lilliput/1003/Dead%20Nazi%20officer%20in%20snow,%20Mabompre,%20Belgium,%201944.jpg[/img_thumb] Oh look those are a bunch of dead Nazis, surely this means that they're the goods ones, because look, there are pictures of them dead, and we all know if you see someone dead that must mean he was the good guy.[/QUOTE] [img]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Qki0NlO4M4-XSM:http://http://images.media.nscdn.com/index.php?src=http://www.filmofilia.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/robertdjr.jpg&size=400x1000&t=1[/img]

[QUOTE=Random94;27141550]Uncooperative? You get warned of being shot at first, not shoot just them at the beggining.[/quote] That's what the warning shots were. You think they are crap shots and started shooting at them immediately? [quote]Well thats one of the only full pictures of gaza during the war (what did you expect, clear skies?)[/quote] I mean, find me an image of the whole city as it is now. Without all the smoke and with how much they have rebuilt. You know they haven't rebuilt much so what it is now must be what it was after the war. [quote]I never knew all warzones had giant seperation walls.[/QUOTE] The Berlin wall comes to mind but but yeah, not too many wars have the kind of conditions where a wall is feasible. There was also the one the French made along the German border before WW2 but that was more fortifications than a wall. The Nazis never really had any walls though. They had ghettos but they were more closed off areas than a separation wall. Their wall is creating a border between the two areas, not forcing them into a ghetto. Because it is a relatively small area it is feasible to make it, unlike most other areas. It's also not just Israel doing it as the Southern Egyptian border has almost the exact same thing, only with more machine guns. [editline]2nd January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Random94;27141604]Not indiscriminate? They were shelling a Refugee camp![/quote] Indiscriminate bombing is where they don't even select a target, just carpet bomb the entire area. That never happened. They chose to bomb that area however stupidly it was. [quote]I wasnt comparing them to the nazis in that post, also if you thought i was comparing them to the nazis beecause of saying there is a seperation wall, there is one if you didint know. [img_thumb]http://palestinenote.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/news/3125.800px_2D00_Boy_5F00_and_5F00_soldier_5F00_in_5F00_front_5F00_of_5F00_Israeli_5F00_wall.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Berlin wall is a very good analogue for it. A little different, but much closer than anything else I can think of. [editline]2nd January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=JDK721;27141657][img_thumb]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Qki0NlO4M4-XSM:http://http://images.media.nscdn.com/index.php?src=http://www.filmofilia.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/robertdjr.jpg&size=400x1000&t=1[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] So do you even know how that is incorrect? He's on the right path, you just want to call him a retard cause it makes you feel better. We had this discussion a few pages ago too, go and read the few posts after him.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;27141752]That's what the warning shots were. You think they are crap shots and started shooting at them immediately?[/QUOTE] From the looks of things yea, due to the fact they they kept firing at them immedietly after the warning shots. [QUOTE=Devodiere;27141752]I mean, find me an image of the whole city as it is now. Without all the smoke and with how much they have rebuilt. You know they haven't rebuilt much so what it is now must be what it was after the war.[/QUOTE] How about this: [img]http://sfbayview.com/wp-content/uploads/gaza-in-ruins-january-2009.jpg[/img] [QUOTE=Devodiere;27141752]Their wall is creating a border between the two areas, not forcing them into a ghetto. Because it is a relatively small area it is feasible to make it, unlike most other areas. It's also not just Israel doing it as the Southern Egyptian border has almost the exact same thing, only with more machine guns.[/quote] But at least it's easier to Enter and probably exit Gaza than in Israel

[QUOTE=Random94;27142172]From the looks of things yea, due to the fact they they kept firing at them immedietly after the warning shots.[/quote] They ignored the warning shots and kept yelling at them. It seems like they would of been shooting at them for a while before they shot someone so what do you expect. [quote]How about this: [img_thumb]http://sfbayview.com/wp-content/uploads/gaza-in-ruins-january-2009.jpg[/img_thumb][/quote] Not the most flattering picture but it's better. If you'd look at the cityscape behind the ruined block, they're shitty buildings but they are intact. For the one block that you see destroyed, how many other buildings behind it are still standing? [quote]But at least it's easier to Enter and probably exit Gaza than in Israel[/QUOTE] They've eased restrictions on it it a few times to let stuff through but overall, it's just as big of separation fence as the one to Israel. They also shoot anyone who tries to infiltrate so not the friendliest one around. As for getting out of Gaza, it's probably more about getting a Visa to get into Israel or Egypt than anything else.

Berlin Wall was to stop East Germans from migrating the communist state to the much-better capitalist state of West Germany, which would weaken East Germany. That's not as good a justification as Israel's for the Gaza Wall, which is to stop Israeli civilians from being blown up and such.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;27142348]Not the most flattering picture but it's better. If you'd look at the cityscape behind the ruined block, they're shitty buildings but they are intact. For the one block that you see destroyed, how many other buildings behind it are still standing?[/QUOTE] So your saying that the the only things destroyed in the entire war was that block? Also i say without a doubt most of the damage came from the inner parts of the city but i didint find those pictures yet.