DNA test proves blond 7 year old girl is child of Roma parents
65 replies, posted
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42622572]Its actually the third but okay.
A similar thing happened in Ireland earlier this week with a Roma boy who was taken away from his parents. Who surprise surprise turned out to be biologically related to his Roma parents.
Its just hysteria about all this right now.[/QUOTE]
These reported kidnappings probably happen more often than is reported in the news. The case in Greece has garnered the media's attention. It will go away in less than a week.
[QUOTE=Explosions;42622613]These reported kidnappings probably happen more often than is reported in the news. The case in Greece has garnered the media's attention. It will go away in less than a week.[/QUOTE]
Yes hence the word
hysteria~
This current Ireland case was because someone tipped off the police because of the ongoing hysteria regarding Roma.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;42621289]I thought the parents had no paperwork on the kid? If you live in a first world country and have no papers on the kids in your care, don't be shocked if they are taken from you. That's how it should work.
If you're being persecuted anyways, as the Roma are, don't make it easier for the law to screw you over.[/QUOTE]
Correct me if I wrong but didn't the parents had the girl's passport?
I see that in the Ireland case there were documents, but those documents were doubted. That looks more like discrimination. If you have documents, as long as they aren't handwritten "I swear this is my kid" level forgeries, then it should be on the state to prove you are doing something wrong. It's wrong for state authorities to decide to remove the kid first, then check the documentation after.
I did not see this coming.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;42623128]I see that in the Ireland case there were documents, but those documents were doubted. That looks more like discrimination. If you have documents, as long as they aren't handwritten "I swear this is my kid" level forgeries, then it should be on the state to prove you are doing something wrong. It's wrong for state authorities to decide to remove the kid first, then check the documentation after.[/QUOTE]
"The family produced a passport for the girl, but the photo used was of a small child and could not be immediately matched with the girl."
Baby passports are useless beyond age 3 and should really be reissued with a more current picture by the latest at age 6. That's on the government though.
i'm so glad Gypsies don't exist in america
[QUOTE=meppers;42623596]i'm so glad Gypsies don't exist in america[/QUOTE]
They do.
Its just that americans don't care because they lack the social stigma over there.
[QUOTE=tryhard;42621686]So...... they took the girl away from parents with nothing but hair color and an anonymous tip?
................................................YIKES............................................
What world do I live in? Holy fuck.[/QUOTE]
welcome to racism
when enough people believe awful and wrong stereotypes about a specific group, they'll begin to act on them or assume asinine shit, just like how that cashier called the cops on that black dude who tried to buy an expensive belt because "a black 19 year old shouldnt have that kind of money!!!"
If the paperwork that was produced wasn't adequate to prove that the child is theirs, then they didn't have a choice, since the police have to act on this kind of stuff.
That doesn't make this situation any less horrible though.
[QUOTE=Gray Altoid;42624209]If the paperwork that was produced wasn't adequate to prove that the child is theirs, then they didn't have a choice, since the police have to act on this kind of stuff.[/QUOTE]
But the only reason they were targeted as potential kidnappers in the first place was because they were a member of this specific minority. The end product is still discrimination.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;42624355]But the only reason they were targeted as potential kidnappers in the first place was because they were a member of this specific minority. The end product is still discrimination.[/QUOTE]
I completely agree, this discrimination is terrible, but you can't really fault the police for doing their job (unless they ignored/omitted evidence that the child was the family's in which case they're total scumbags)
Hi jeep-eep why are you rating me dumb if I am explicitly agreeing with you.
[QUOTE=Gray Altoid;42624721]I completely agree, this discrimination is terrible, but you can't really fault the police for doing their job (unless they ignored/omitted evidence that the child was the family's in which case they're total scumbags)[/QUOTE]
My parents never had any physical evidence I was there's that could be produced on the spot. But they never had to live in fear of me being taken away because I look a little different.
The Roma do.
And that is discrimination regardless how you try to cut it.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42624754]My parents never had any physical evidence I was there's that could be produced on the spot. But they never had to live in fear of me being taken away because I look a little different.
The Roma do.
And that is discrimination regardless how you try to cut it.[/QUOTE]
The justification given was that there was little to no resemblance. I know that's hardly compelling evidence, but if blonde children are all but unheard of in Roma camps, I can see why it might raise an eyebrow or two.
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;42624994]The justification given was that there was little to no resemblance. I know that's hardly compelling evidence, but if blonde children are all but unheard of in Roma camps, I can see why it might raise an eyebrow or two.[/QUOTE]
Eyebrow raising isn't a reasonable cause for taking children by force.
"Roma camps" lol
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42625244]Eyebrow raising isn't a reasonable cause for taking children by force.
"Roma camps" lol[/QUOTE]
It isn't a justification, and I didn't try to justify the removal of the child, I just tried to offer an explanation.
I bet that what went through the officer's heads was more like "this kid doesn't look like her supposed parents, and they can't produce the right documents" than "Roma gypsy they must've kipnapped the kid!"
And I know, "Roma camps", I agonised about how to phrase that, evidently I should have agonised some more.
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42621212]Yes. Presumably one of their ancestors fucked a blond person or some such.[/QUOTE]
Well, since I'm pretty sure that blonde hair is a recessive trait, both of their ancestors.
Which, if punnett squares aren't a gross oversimplification of how these things work like I can't help but feel they are, gives about a 25% chance give or take of this occurring from a union of this kind.
Pretty fucked up that they can just take a kid away from someone.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42625244]Eyebrow raising isn't a reasonable cause for taking children by force.
"Roma camps" lol[/QUOTE]
The police got a tip, the police have to investigate crimes involving children, the elderly and the disabled immediately. Neither side could find documentation to prove the child belonged there so from the polices perspective they were taking a child that had no known home.
Maybe you are being thick by choice here but are you suggesting the police do not investigate kidnapping claims and they should not take children when no proof of a family connection is found?
Criticize the tipsters intentions all you want but to suggest the police did anything wrong (with no proof mind you) is moronic. If the child was kidnapped and the cops let her stay even with lack of documentation you would be singing a different tune and you know it so stop acting like this is some injustice from the police instead of a misunderstanding enhanced by both sides lacking correct documentation.
[QUOTE=benwaddi;42625399]The police got a tip, the police have to investigate crimes involving children, the elderly and the disabled immediately. Neither side could find documentation to prove the child belonged there so from the polices perspective they were taking a child that had no known home.
Maybe you are being thick by choice here but are you suggesting the police do not investigate kidnapping claims and they should not take children when no proof of a family connection is found?
Criticize the tipsters intentions all you want but to suggest the police did anything wrong (with no proof mind you) is moronic. If the child was kidnapped and the cops let her stay even with lack of documentation you would be singing a different tune and you know it so stop acting like this is some injustice from the police instead of a misunderstanding enhanced by both sides lacking correct documentation.[/QUOTE]
They can investigate all they want.
[QUOTE=benwaddi;42625399]The police got a tip, the police have to investigate crimes involving children, the elderly and the disabled immediately. Neither side could find documentation to prove the child belonged there so from the polices perspective they were taking a child that had no known home.
Maybe you are being thick by choice here but are you suggesting the police do not investigate kidnapping claims and they should not take children when no proof of a family connection is found?
Criticize the tipsters intentions all you want but to suggest the police did anything wrong (with no proof mind you) is moronic. If the child was kidnapped and the cops let her stay even with lack of documentation you would be singing a different tune and you know it so stop acting like this is some injustice from the police instead of a misunderstanding enhanced by both sides lacking correct documentation.[/QUOTE]
I see no problem with them checking, and indeed investigating further if they find no paperwork which proves the child to be theirs.
The primary issue is that a child was taken away from their parents on what are, essentially, racially charged pretenses. There's no reason for that until a conclusion to the investigation is made.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42625464]They can investigate all they want.[/QUOTE]
Generally an investigation into a kidnapping involves either the child being taken away or the accused being put into custody until documentation is found, its not exactly the situation you implied accusing the police of discrimination.
I wish there was someone to blame for this cock up but as far as we know everyone involved thought they were doing whats best for the child, hindsight clouds that.
[QUOTE=froztshock;42625484]I see no problem with them checking, and indeed investigating further if they find no paperwork which proves the child to be theirs.
The primary issue is that a child was taken away from their parents on [B]what are, essentially, racially charged pretenses[/B]. There's no reason for that until a conclusion to the investigation is made.[/QUOTE]
The same would happen to anyone of any race, you are confusing the tipsters reasoning (difference in appearance) with the polices. Since it was a kidnapping accusation the first thing they do is retrieve the child in case there is a flight risk.
The accusation can be reasoned anyway you want, you can say the moon told you and they have to investigate and remove the child from any potential harm.
Its the safest procedure to make children in potentially dangerous homes get to safety the fastest. Here it fucked up but I would rather have 10 of these situations than 1 where the police faffed about and a child was abused when they could be saved.
[QUOTE=benwaddi;42625504]The same would happen to anyone of any race, you are confusing the tipsters reasoning (difference in appearance) with the polices. Since it was a kidnapping accusation the first thing they do is retrieve the child in case there is a flight risk.
The accusation can be reasoned anyway you want, you can say the moon told you and they have to investigate and remove the child from any potential harm.
Its the safest procedure to make children in potentially dangerous homes get to safety the fastest. Here it fucked up but I would rather have 10 of these situations than 1 where the police faffed about and a child was abused when they could be saved.[/QUOTE]
Maybe it would have happened to a family of another race, but a family of another race is far, far less likely to have been reported in the first place.
[QUOTE=Megafan;42625644]Maybe it would have happened to a family of another race, but a family of another race is far, far less likely to have been reported in the first place.[/QUOTE]
I never said it couldn't, my posts were in response to people implying the police somehow discriminated against the family.
[QUOTE=benwaddi;42625724]I never said it couldn't, my posts were in response to people implying the police somehow discriminated against the family.[/QUOTE]
this is just a hunch but i think if a regular suburban white family had their child taken by the police for a reason as arbitrary as "someone tipped us off that this kid looks different from you" it would spark national outrage.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42625740]this is just a hunch but i think if a regular suburban white family had their child taken by the police for a reason as arbitrary as "someone tipped us off that this kid looks different from you" it would spark national outrage.[/QUOTE]
Where did I say it wouldn't?
NoDachi said it was discrimination, to somehow disprove my point that following procedure is not discrimination you talk about public opinion?
Again what does public opinion and the anonymous tipsters intentions have to do with police procedure? Can you find me a clear cut trend where the police leave children in custody of non Roma's then NoDachi would have a point but so far nothing supports his quite laughable claims.
[url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1317933&p=42619539&viewfull=1#post42619539]I called it.[/url]
[QUOTE=benwaddi;42625836]Where did I say it wouldn't?
NoDachi said it was discrimination, to somehow disprove my point that following procedure is not discrimination you talk about public opinion?
Again what does public opinion and the anonymous tipsters intentions have to do with police procedure? Can you find me a clear cut trend where the police leave children in custody of non Roma's then NoDachi would have a point but so far nothing supports his quite laughable claims.[/QUOTE]
Well, let's say it's your family, or your friend's family, or any other person you feel some empathy for.
If I call up the police and go "hey, I don't think their kid's actually their kid, check out his eye colour" (or something closer to what was reported here, the specifics are not really relevant). They take him away from their house, and someone has to explain why--are you just going to say "oh it was just procedure" in the same way?
[QUOTE=Megafan;42625884]Well, let's say it's your family, or your friend's family, or any other person you feel some empathy for.
If I call up the police and go "hey, I don't think their kid's actually their kid, check out his eye colour" (or something closer to what was reported here, the specifics are not really relevant). They take him away from their house, and someone has to explain why--are you just going to say "oh it was just procedure" in the same way?[/QUOTE]
Wow hang on, I have sympathy for this family being put through a shit situation, im not saying they deserved it or they did anything wrong.
Fact is we all want to feel for the family and have someone to blame but there is one person who you could pinpoint any type of discrimination on and that's the person who tipped the police off and even then that's dubious since we know nothing of their intentions. Appealing to emotion by attacking the police for doing their jobs accomplishes nothing.
I would appreciate it if you thought better of posters in the future to assume I would treat a Roma family different than a white family giving that I have defended them numerous times, its a little offensive and frankly uncalled for.
[QUOTE=benwaddi;42625836]Where did I say it wouldn't?
NoDachi said it was discrimination, to somehow disprove my point that following procedure is not discrimination you talk about public opinion?
Again what does public opinion and the anonymous tipsters intentions have to do with police procedure? Can you find me a clear cut trend where the police leave children in custody of non Roma's then NoDachi would have a point but so far nothing supports his quite laughable claims.[/QUOTE]
hey dude showing up to a family's house and taking their child away from them because you got a phone call is definitely NOT police procedure. i'd love for you to show me where in the Irish Law Enforcement pamphlet they are allowed to do that.
[QUOTE=meppers;42623596]i'm so glad Gypsies don't exist in america[/QUOTE]
There's a shitload, actually. I haven't seen many in my home state but in Louisiana and Florida there are pretty large populations of Gypsies. They're often seen as street performers, beggars, etc. They're pretty much all over the world, like most people.
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