Hamas was only set up to deal with the Israeli Occupation.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;22214261]Hamas was only set up to deal with the Israeli Occupation.[/QUOTE]
It was set up to destroy Israel. It's in their charter.
Imagine if France was suddenly run by a political party whose platform was the destruction of the United Kingdom.
This is pretty much that. Only Israel knows they mean it because they have actually taken actions against them already.
[QUOTE=GunFox;22214243]Because Hamas has a long history of planting flowers and launching kitty cats at Israel.
The strip is a country. Run by a terrorist organization that has spent its entire existence trying to destroy Israel. Why the HELL would Israel let them be for even a second?
It's not like Hamas is only sorta maybe a terrorist group. CANADA calls them terrorists. Right along with The United States, The European Union, and Japan.
It's a country RUN BY AN EXTREMIST GROUP. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ISRAEL TO DO?
It isn't that I want people to necessarily agree with the actions taken by Israel, but it would be nice if you would take a tiny second to look at this from the other side of the fence from a political standpoint. Israel doesn't have a lot of happy options.[/QUOTE]
Hamas is a RESPONSE to the Israeli occupation and OPPRESSION. UNFORTUNATELY their methods of expressing RESENTMENT are not the BEST.
[editline]04:08PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=GunFox;22214289]It was set up to destroy Israel. It's in their charter.[/QUOTE]
One of my favorite arguments! This is easy.
[release]
The charter's current status within Hamas is unclear. For example, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mousa_Abu_Marzook&action=edit&redlink=1"]Mousa Abu Marzook[/URL], the deputy of the political bureau of Hamas, in 2007 described the charter as "an essentially revolutionary document born of the intolerable conditions under occupation" in 1988. Senior British [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomat"]diplomat[/URL] and former British [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambassador"]ambassador[/URL] to the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN"]UN[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Greenstock"]Sir Jeremy Greenstock[/URL] stated in early 2009 that the Hamas charter was "drawn up by a Hamas-linked imam some [twenty] years ago and has never been adopted since Hamas was elected as the Palestinian government in 2006". Greenstock also stated that Hamas is not intent on the destruction of Israel.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-news.bbc.co.uk-56"][57][/URL][/release]
[editline]04:13PM[/editline]
[release]Marzook added that "if every state or movement were to be judged solely by its foundational, revolutionary documents . . ., there would be a good deal to answer for on all sides," noting as an example that the [[US Constitution]] engaged in codifying [[slavery]].[[URL]http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-marzook10jul10,1,3392144.story[/URL] "Hamas' Stand"] ''The Los Angeles Times'' July 10, 2007[/release]
[QUOTE=starpluck;22214305]
One of my favorite arguments! This is easy.
[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah so they have reformed completely and are all lovey dovey with Israel.
No shit they can't officially adopt it. Israel would have killed them all immediately. It would have been an immediate act of war.
[QUOTE=GunFox;22214394]Oh yeah so they have reformed completely and are all lovey dovey with Israel.
[B]
No shit they can't officially adopt it. Israel would have killed them all immediately. It would have been an immediate act of war.[/B][/QUOTE]
Nice attempt at making your previous post seem sarcastic.
[QUOTE=starpluck;22214305]Hamas is a RESPONSE to the Israeli occupation and OPPRESSION. UNFORTUNATELY their methods of expressing RESENTMENT are not the BEST.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes I wonder why FPers don't just hop on over to Palestine, Lebanon, or any of the bordering nations and just join up to fight the oppressive, evil, arrogant Israel.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;22213157]Truer words eh?
Good start, quick jab at Israel being backwards. Disregarding Zimbabwe, South Africa, Cambodia, most Arab states being far worse off. Also making arbitrary judgements on something being racist.[/QUOTE]
If you're going to refute something at least read it correctly. He said Israel is NOT the only racist regime left on earth
[QUOTE=starpluck;22214431]Nice attempt at making your previous post seem sarcastic.[/QUOTE]
The previous statement still stands. They've not rewritten their charter.
It's almost without a doubt still their charter as a government. But again, admitting to it on any level would get them invaded immediately.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;22213157]Oh right, the resistance uses the net now. This is such a cliche it's hard to imagine someone would actually believe it.[/QUOTE]
Anecdotally, I've been on FP for 5 years and the responses to Israel threads are way more anti-Israel than they used to be. Even some pro-Israel American Jews are questioning their support after the last Gaza invasion. Pretty much the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel]entire international community hates you[/url], too. You guys DO have an image problem.
[QUOTE=GunFox;22214289]
Imagine if France was suddenly run by a political party whose platform was the destruction of the United Kingdom.
[/QUOTE]
This would only be an acceptable analogy if France and the UK had borders with each other, the UK stole about half of the land that was set aside for France, and then walled off half of what is left of that land; not allowing basic goods through half the time, and the other half, not allowing exports, thus impoverishing France.
[QUOTE=GunFox;22214493]The previous statement still stands. They've not rewritten their charter.
It's almost without a doubt still their charter as a government. But again, admitting to it on any level would get them invaded immediately.[/QUOTE]
They haven't adopted their charter. So stop using it as an argument then.
[QUOTE=starpluck;22214531]They haven't adopted their charter. So stop using it as an argument then.[/QUOTE]
They also haven't thrown it out entirely and written a new charter.
Nor have they shown any signs that they no longer wish the destruction of Israel.
[QUOTE=GunFox;22214665]They also haven't thrown it out entirely and written a new charter. [/QUOTE] That means they don't have a charter...
[quote]
Nor have they shown any signs that they no longer wish the destruction of Israel.[/quote]Israel hasn't shown signs that they no longer wish the destruction of Gaza.
[QUOTE=GunFox;22214665]They also haven't thrown it out entirely and written a new charter.
Nor have they shown any signs that they no longer wish the destruction of Israel.[/QUOTE]
Then why did Hamas try to reign in all the other autonomous groups attacking Israel?
It's not something that'll reach Fox News.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;22214748]Then why did Hamas try to reign in all the other autonomous groups attacking Israel?
It's not something that'll reach Fox News.[/QUOTE]
The same reason they adopted the rocket attacks after years of using far more effective means.
If Israel cannot produce sufficient images of dead children or destroyed buildings, then they cannot be the victim. This opens the door to Hamas being able to play the victim card and win a political victory through the use of media.
EDIT:
I don't watch or like Fox news. It is a media outlet that is uniquely capable of being wrong about virtually everything. I keep an RSS feed from google which brings in tons of different news sources on the same topics. Showing bias or favor towards any single news source invites ignorance.
I do admit Hamas is playing the whole show.
But Hamas will always have widespread support as long as Israel acts like a dick.
[QUOTE=starpluck;22212620]This is sad, and is absolutely unjustifiable.[/QUOTE]
Until the bigoted Israel-hating masses, such as yourself, realize that they've had chances before to go elsewhere. But they don't want to.
Since they basically want to take Israel entirely, I don't see why we can't leave them there. Nobody else wants them, they wouldn't leave before, to me it seems like they're in that situation mostly by their own choice.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;22214943]I do admit Hamas is playing the whole show.
But Hamas will always have widespread support as long as Israel acts like a dick.[/QUOTE]
Yeah Israel is taking the bait far too readily. It would be nice if they would take a more relaxed stance.
[QUOTE=Jenkem;22215015]Until the bigoted Israel-hating masses, such as yourself, realize that they've had chances before to go elsewhere. But they don't want to.
Since they basically want to take Israel entirely, I don't see why we can't leave them there. Nobody else wants them, they wouldn't leave before, to me it seems like they're in that situation mostly by their own choice.[/QUOTE]
Let's prevent Gaza from getting aid (Collective punishment) since Hamas is against Israel's policies :downs:
Also, recheck your history knowledge, Hamas offered Israel pace many times, which was rejected.
[QUOTE=starpluck;22213105]I never said that.
Zionism has almost really nothing to do with Jews, like my aforementioned post, I've me more Jews in my life then Zionists. They hate Zionism for many reasons, its usually because its racist ideology, and Zionism creates antisemitism.
[release][B]1. IS IT TRUE[/B] that in 1941 and again in 1942, the German Gestapo offered all European Jews transit to Spain, if they would relinquish all their property in Germany and Occupied France; on condition that:
a) none of the deportees travel from Spain to Palestine; and
b) all the deportees be transported from Spain to the USA or British colonies, and there to remain; with entry visas to be arranged by the Jews living there; and
c) $1000.00 ransom for each family to be furnished by the Agency, payable upon the arrival of the family at the Spanish border at the rate of 1000 families daily.
[B]2. IS IT TRUE[/B] that the Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey received this offer with the clear understanding that the exclusion of Palestine as a destination for the deportees was based on an agreement between the Gestapo and the Mufti.
[B]3. IS IT TRUE[/B] that the answer of the Zionist leaders was negative, with the following comments:
a) ONLY Palestine would be considered as a destination for the deportees.
b) The European Jews must accede to suffering and death greater in measure than the other nations, in order that the victorious allies agree to a "Jewish State" at the end of the war.
c) No ransom will be paid
[B]4. IS IT TRUE[/B] that this response to the Gestapo's offer was made with the full knowledge that the alternative to this offer was the gas chamber.
[B]5. IS IT TRUE[/B] that in 1944, at the time of the Hungarian deportations, a similar offer was made, whereby all Hungarian Jewry could be saved.
[B]6. IS IT TRUE[/B] that the same Zionist hierarchy again refused this offer (after the gas chambers had already taken a toll of millions).
[B]7. IS IT TRUE[/B] that during the height of the killings in the war, 270 Members of the British Parliament proposed to evacuate 500,000 Jews from Europe, and resettle them in British colonies, as a part of diplomatic negotiations with Germany.
[B]8. IS IT TRUE[/B] that this offer was rejected by the Zionist leaders with the observation "Only to Palestine!"
[B]9. IS IT TRUE[/B] that the British government granted visas to 300 rabbis and their families to the Colony of Mauritius, with passage for the evacuees through Turkey. The "Jewish Agency" leaders sabotaged this plan with the observation that the plan was disloyal to Palestine, and the 300 rabbis and their families should be gassed.
[B]10. IS IT TRUE[/B] that during the course of the negotiations mentioned above, Chaim Weitzman, the first "Jewish statesman" stated: "The most valuable part of the Jewish nation is already in Palestine, and those Jews living outside Palestine are not too important". Weitzman's cohort, Greenbaum, amplified this statement with the observation "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe".
There are additional similar questions to be asked of these atheist degenerates known as "Jewish statesmen", but for the time being let them respond to the ten questions.[/release]
The questions were by Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl ZT"L Dean of Nitra Yeshiva.
[URL]http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/rabbi_quotes/weissmandl.cfm[/URL][/QUOTE]
starpluck, I thought that I've already convinced you that this site is bullshit? Should I post my responses too all those silly accusations and the likes?
[QUOTE=starpluck;22213862]Besides the moderate Jew that are against Israel, religious Jews are against Israel since, 'only the messiah can create Israel'. The U.N isn't a messiah.[/QUOTE]
You mean, only religious nutjobs. The precentage is so small, I bet it's lower that the Muslim extremists who claim to be the true messengers of Islam, than all the other Muslim.
[QUOTE=starpluck;22213964]I doubt any of them wants Israel destroyed, that's a bit too far.[/QUOTE]
They (the religious nutjobs) don't want it destroyed, they want it removed and don't even care that the territory will probably be annexed by Israel's neighbours.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;22214261]Hamas was only set up to deal with the Israeli Occupation.[/QUOTE]
Israel is no longer occupying the Gaza Strip, it hasn't for 5 years now. They propose of the blockade is to remove Hamas from power, if they were to be removed, the blockade will be lifted and everything will be fine. However, I doubt they'll be removed if the blockade will be removed first.
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;22214525]This would only be an acceptable analogy if France and the UK had borders with each other, the UK stole about half of the land that was set aside for France, and then walled off half of what is left of that land; not allowing basic goods through half the time, and the other half, not allowing exports, thus impoverishing France.[/QUOTE]
This isn't as simple as that. Let's use a different metaphor: The Gypsies who have long considered their home to be in Romania, suddenly start to immigrate there, in hopes of one day creating a country for themselves. The Romanians don't have much problem with this, and sell a lot of lands to the Gypsies, most of them deserts and marshlands who are good for nothing, in eastrn Romania. The Gypsies begin working the lands and improving it. Oh and I forgot to mention that Romania was actually occupied by Russia, but the Russian government was only there for some time and promised the Romanians that they'll get independence soon, the Russians don't have much problem with the Gypsies coming to Romania, and promised them their own state too.
Well fuck this is taking too long than I thought, basically it's not all "Well the Jews came and stole lands from the Arabs and then made their own state and then in several wars got even more lands".
[QUOTE=starpluck;22215097]Let's prevent Gaza from getting aid (Collective punishment) since Hamas is against Israel's policies :downs:
Also, recheck your history knowledge, Hamas offered Israel pace many times, which was rejected.[/QUOTE]
Why should Israel accept fake peace? Israel was practically at peace with the Gaza Strip for 2 years after the withdrawal, why did Hamas, who wants to "protect Gaza from Israel" or something like this, tried to get into power to do this, when there was no need to protect Gaza from Israel at the time?
who would have known that BurnEmDown would come in here and defend Israel once again.
:downs:
I'm defending Israel from stupid accusations, can you blame me for all those stupid comments?
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