Most Americans support Arizona Immigration Bill, further offshore drilling
309 replies, posted
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935153]I'm pretty sure they also didn't have illegals sneaking in and taking jobs that an American citizen would otherwise do.
They also don't pay taxes, and a good deal of them are violent criminals.[/QUOTE]
As a conservative, please stop making the few non-retards among us look like redneck racist fucks by making broad generalizations with no proof.
Thanks.
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935153]I'm pretty sure they also didn't have illegals sneaking in and taking jobs that an American citizen would otherwise do.
They also don't pay taxes, and a good deal of them are violent criminals.[/QUOTE]
The statistics are probably disproprtionate since people only really notice illegals if they do something against the law, so it seems like every illegal is a criminal.
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21927003]No. It isn't. It's average.[/QUOTE]
Average doesn't always entail that you're adequate. especially when the average is shitty.
[QUOTE=TH89;21935197]Source?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.congress.org/congressorg/bio/userletter/?id=3181&letter_id=5133353191[/url]
[editline]11:59PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;21935218]pretty much
And there's no such thing as an illegal "stealing our jobs." They are willing to work for less, they are more likely to get hired. You can work for as little as they do. You don't want to so you don't, but they can tough it out, and so you complain.[/quote]
They are indeed stealing our jobs. Why do they get to work, exempt of taxes? BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT HERE LEGALLY. And there are [I]most definitely[/I] American citizens who would do what illegals do for an occupation.
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935272]They are indeed stealing our jobs. Why do they get to work, exempt of taxes? BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT HERE LEGALLY. And there are [I]most definitely[/I] American citizens who would do what illegals do for an occupation.[/QUOTE]
You didn't refute my argument.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;21935266]The statistics are probably disproprtionate since people only really notice illegals if they do something against the law, so it seems like every illegal is a criminal.[/QUOTE]
Oh, the irony.
[quote]It seems like every illegal is a criminal[/quote]
[quote]seems like every illegal is a[/quote]
[quote]like every illegal is[/quote]
[quote][B]illegal[/B][/quote]
The fact that they entered this country ILLEGALLY makes them criminals.
[editline]12:02AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;21935310]You didn't refute my argument.[/QUOTE]
I did. I pointed out just how illegals steal jobs.
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935272][URL]http://www.congress.org/congressorg/bio/userletter/?id=3181&letter_id=5133353191[/URL][/QUOTE]
Of course the 55,322 they "studied" had committed crimes, they are the ones who got caught as illegal aliens due to committing said crimes.
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935325]Oh, the irony.
The fact that they entered this country ILLEGALLY makes them criminals.
[editline]12:02AM[/editline]
I did. I pointed out just how illegals steal jobs.[/QUOTE]
we're talking about violent crime, genius
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935244]
No. Americans will take any jobs available.[/QUOTE]
if it came between an american and an illegal alien, employers would much rather choose americans
but why don't they?
and slavery is forced labour for no money. illegal immigrants work for money to improve their situation, something at the heart of capitalism.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;21935218]And there's no such thing as an illegal "stealing our jobs." They are willing to work for less, they are more likely to get hired. You can work for as little as they do. You don't want to so you don't, but they can tough it out, and so you complain.
[/QUOTE]
As much as I agree with the other stuff you said, this is a terrible point. Mexico is a pretty awful place (unless you're rich) these people are used to living in modest squalor, and even the money they make in America working for "cheap," is far more than they'd make in Mexico.
Long story short, we have different standards of living, and immigrant employees should be paid the same as everybody else, so that they can be evaluated on their skill and usefulness rather than their cheap price. Immigrant workers working for dirt cheap is an affront to unionized labor.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;21935350]As much as I agree with the other stuff you said, this is a terrible point. Mexico is a pretty awful place (unless you're rich) these people are used to living in modest squalor, and even the money they make in America working for "cheap," is far more than they'd make in Mexico.
Long story short, we have different standards of living, and immigrant employee should be paid the same as everybody else,s o that they can be evaluated on their skill and usefulness rather than their cheap price.[/QUOTE]
So because we are used to our comfortable American lifestyles people who can do without are being unfair?
[editline]12:06AM[/editline]
Also, in terms of skill and usefulness: at the bottom rung of the labor ladder, unskilled labor is essentially homogeneous. The only factor that makes a difference is what they're willing to work for.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;21935373]So because we are used to our comfortable American lifestyles people who can do without are being unfair?[/QUOTE]
Yes. If they come to America (or Canada in my case, but same deal) they should work just as hard and skilled as everybody else, and be paid the same. That way they can be evaluated on the same level.
Basically what you're suggesting would bring us back to the early 1900's.
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935325]The fact that they entered this country ILLEGALLY makes them criminals.[/QUOTE]
Nonviolent crime. Stop trying to imply that they're somehow inferior by putting a label on them like that.
Have you drank alcohol or smoked weed before? You're a criminal. Have you sped before? You're a criminal. Have you jaywalked before? You're a criminal.
[QUOTE=thisispain;21935346]if it came between an american and an illegal alien, employers would much rather choose americans
but why don't they?
and slavery is forced labour for no money. illegal immigrants work for money to improve their situation, something at the heart of capitalism.[/QUOTE]
Sleazy employers have no reason to pay illegals well. They can pay them half minimum wage, and that's that. They can't complain to any officials. They're [I]illegals.[/I] They'll get deported.
Through these means, illegals are kept from gaining any kind of position, and they remain in the same economic and social pit for their whole lives.
I'd call that slavery.
Unless you are here legally, anyone is free to take total advantage of your situation.
What was it that people said about slaves back in the 19th century? Oh, right. They do the shit that nobody else wants to do.
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935415]Sleazy employers have no reason to pay illegals well. They can pay them half minimum wage, and that's that. They can't complain to any officials. They're [I]illegals.[/I] They'll get deported.
Through these means, illegals are kept from gaining any kind of position, and they remain in the same economic and social pit for their whole lives.
I'd call that slavery.
Unless you are here legally, anyone is free to take total advantage of your situation.
What was it that people said about slaves back in the 19th century? Oh, right. They do the shit that nobody else wants to do.[/QUOTE]
don't pull any strawmen, i answered your claim that they steal American jobs and nothing else
[QUOTE=JDK721;21935413]Nonviolent crime. Stop trying to imply that they're somehow inferior by putting a label on them like that.[/quote]
Do not twist my words. I never said they were inferior people, only that they should not be in this country.
[quote]Have you drank alcohol or smoked weed before? You're a criminal. Have you sped before? You're a criminal. Have you jaywalked before? You're a criminal.[/QUOTE]
All those have a statute of limitations on them. Being here illegally is not an event, it's a [I]condition[/I].
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935415]Sleazy employers have no reason to pay illegals well. They can pay them half minimum wage, and that's that. They can't complain to any officials. They're [I]illegals.[/I] They'll get deported.
Through these means, illegals are kept from gaining any kind of position, and they remain in the same economic and social pit for their whole lives.
I'd call that slavery.
Unless you are here legally, anyone is free to take total advantage of your situation.
What was it that people said about slaves back in the 19th century? Oh, right. They do the shit that nobody else wants to do.[/QUOTE]
why do you all of a sudden care about illegal immigrants?
[QUOTE=thisispain;21935438]don't pull any strawmen, i answered your claim that they steal American jobs and nothing else[/QUOTE]
I used no straw man argument. I merely explained my position more in-depth.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;21935401]Yes. If they come to America (or Canada in my case, but same deal) they should work just as hard and skilled as everybody else, and be paid the same. That way they can be evaluated on the same level.
Basically what you're suggesting would bring us back to the early 1900's.[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about? I'm not arguing that they work any worse and get paid the same, I'm saying a burger flipper or ditch digger is a burger flipper or ditch digger. No firm is going to say, "This man's ditch digging résumé does not nearly qualify him for our work!" The factor on which unskilled laborers, which most illegal immigrants are, compete is the price of their labor.
[editline]12:12AM[/editline]
I'm not suggested we change anything, either, this is how things already work.
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935449]I used no straw man argument. I merely explained my position more in-depth.[/QUOTE]
no, you tried to push something beyond my argument
you said illegal immigrants steal american jobs, i said that's bullshit and shitty laws like the arizona immigration bill do nothing
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935325]Oh, the irony.
The fact that they entered this country ILLEGALLY makes them criminals.
I did. I pointed out just how illegals steal jobs.[/QUOTE]
Being an illegal immigrant doesn't make you a criminal, you might not pay taxes or have citizenship but they still might lead productive lives and be nice people.
Immigration laws are all just red tape, just because you choose to not listen to them doesn't mean you're a bad person.
[QUOTE=Lazor;21935447]why do you all of a sudden care about illegal immigrants?[/QUOTE]
I never said I hated them. They're people too. Just like I disagree with homosexuality, but I regard them as people all the same. (some of them are among the best people I've ever met.)
Come here legally, and it helps everyone.
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935415]What was it that people said about slaves back in the 19th century? Oh, right. They do the shit that nobody else wants to do.[/QUOTE]
Are you serious?
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;21935465]Being an illegal immigrant doesn't make you a criminal, you might not pay taxes or have citizenship but they still might lead productive lives and be nice people.
Immigration laws are all just red tape, just because you choose to not listen to them doesn't mean you're a bad person.[/QUOTE]
criminal =/= bad person
But being a criminal is still being a criminal.
[editline]12:14AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;21935476]Are you serious?[/QUOTE]
Absolutely.
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935468]I never said I hated them. They're people too. Just like I disagree with homosexuality, but I regard them as people all the same. (some of them are among the best people I've ever met.)
Come here legally, and it helps everyone.[/QUOTE]
lol i'm not a racist, i have lots of black friends, i have a lot of them in my bathroom even
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935491]Absolutely.[/QUOTE]
Uh, no, what they said is that they're not people so we're perfectly justified in making them work for no pay.
[QUOTE=Lazor;21935499]lol i'm not a racist, i have lots of black friends, i have a lot of them in my bathroom even[/QUOTE]
No of course I can't possibly have friends of a differing sexual orientation because I'm a RACIST and a HOMOPHOBE, right?
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935491]criminal =/= bad person
But being a criminal is still being a criminal.
[/QUOTE]
Okay, so why are we even arguing?
Being an illegal immigrant doesn't necessarily mean you're more likely steal or murder.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;21935506]Uh, no, what they said is that they're not people so we're perfectly justified in making them work for no pay.[/QUOTE]
Through which they also kept them from achieving anything of meaning in their life. Just like how illegals today are kept down by employers that hire them.
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21935532]Through which they also kept them from achieving anything of meaning in their life. Just like how illegals today are kept down by employers that hire them.[/QUOTE]
You are really not very good at debate.
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