• Most Americans support Arizona Immigration Bill, further offshore drilling
    309 replies, posted
[QUOTE=yawmwen;21948611]Uh, it's true. A house slave was generally accepted as part of the family. They got free food and free room and board. Hell, even a farm slave got free living spaces in exchange for their work, instead of the climate of constant starvation and war in Africa.[/QUOTE] you're conveniently leaving out the part where slaves were, you know, enslaved, and regularly beaten, often to the point of permanent scarring and sometimes fatally. You're leaving out the part where they were treated as subhuman creatures whose only value was as property. Even if your assertion that Africa was a hellhole of nothing but war and famine (which it wasn't) aren't you a libertarian or something? Surely you of all people should know the value of freedom, self-determination, and self-worth. I don't know where you got this idea but it's pretty unsupported by historical evidence and analysis.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;21948716]I know they are. Did I ever say they weren't? Unlike you, I acknowledge slaves and immigrants are being exploited. I want that changed. Jesus you can't fucking read.[/QUOTE] I never said slaves didn't get exploited either. I was just saying that their life was better than in Africa. Just like illegal immigrants lives are better in the USA than in Latin America or China. I want the shit changed, I don't want illegals gone, but I sure as fuck don't want them being exploited by our current system. You have made it clear that you think as long as they are living a better life that exploitation is justified. [quote]No, they fucking don't. Again, you're BLAMING unemployment stats on illegals, which they aren't fucking responsible for.[/quote]I never blamed unemployment stats on illegals, I'm saying that illegal immigrants only take those jobs because those are their only choice and Americans can't get them because they legally have to be paid minimum wage while illegals don't. [editline]11:06PM[/editline] [QUOTE=TH89;21948830]you're conveniently leaving out the part where slaves were, you know, enslaved, and regularly beaten, often to the point of permanent scarring and sometimes fatally. You're leaving out the part where they were treated as subhuman creatures whose only value was as property. Even if your assertion that Africa was a hellhole of nothing but war and famine (which it wasn't) aren't you a libertarian or something? Surely you of all people should know the value of freedom, self-determination, and self-worth. I don't know where you got this idea but it's pretty unsupported by historical evidence and analysis.[/QUOTE] I'm making a point. Slavery is a horrible thing(to say lightly). My point is that he says that since illegal immigrants are living a better life in the US than in their home country that all that exploitation and economic slavery imposed on them is alright, so then that means slavery is alright too by the same logic.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;21948848]I never said slaves didn't get exploited either. I was just saying that their life was better than in Africa. Just like illegal immigrants lives are better in the USA than in Latin America or China. I want the shit changed, I don't want illegals gone, but I sure as fuck don't want them being exploited by our current system. You have made it clear that you think as long as they are living a better life that exploitation is justified. I never blamed unemployment stats on illegals, I'm saying that illegal immigrants only take those jobs because those are their only choice and Americans can't get them because they legally have to be paid minimum wage while illegals don't. [editline]11:06PM[/editline] I'm making a point. Slavery is a horrible thing(to say lightly). My point is that he says that since illegal immigrants are living a better life in the US than in their home country that all that exploitation and economic slavery imposed on them is alright, so then that means slavery is alright too by the same logic.[/QUOTE] Except I never said such a thing. I never said I didn't want their exploitation lifted.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;21948848] I'm making a point. Slavery is a horrible thing(to say lightly). My point is that he says that since illegal immigrants are living a better life in the US than in their home country that all that exploitation and economic slavery imposed on them is alright, so then that means slavery is alright too by the same logic.[/QUOTE] you're trying to make a moral argument while no-one else is making a moral argument, there's a difference between what is moral, and what is right. we could ban things that harm you because it is moral, but that doesn't mean it is necessarily right. we could start removing illegal immigrants because it's somehow moral but it isn't right nor logical
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;21949028]Except I never said such a thing. I never said I didn't want their exploitation lifted.[/QUOTE] Alright, well, let's call a truce then. It just pisses me off when people say they don't want illegals deported simply because of their economic contributions. That's the right idea, but for the wrong reason.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;21949086]Alright, well, let's call a truce then. It just pisses me off when people say they don't want illegals deported simply because of their economic contributions. That's the right idea, but for the wrong reason.[/QUOTE] we don't want illegals deported because it won't solve anything
[QUOTE=thisispain;21949084]you're trying to make a moral argument while no-one else is making a moral argument, there's a difference between what is moral, and what is right. we could ban things that harm you because it is moral, but that doesn't mean it is necessarily right. we could start removing illegal immigrants because it's somehow moral but it isn't right nor logical[/QUOTE] I don't want illegals deported. I want most, if not all illegals to be legal.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;21949105]I don't want illegals deported. I want most, if not all illegals to be legal.[/QUOTE] then we are mixing up everything and making futile arguments
[QUOTE=yawmwen;21946903]OPEC is a cartel that artificially raises prices on oil though.[/QUOTE] Yeah but even if all our oil was from the US it would still cost more.
[QUOTE=thisispain;21949149]then we are mixing up everything and making futile arguments[/QUOTE] I guess. We are arguing for the same thing but arguing against each other. [QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;21949293]Yeah but even if all our oil was from the US it would still cost more.[/QUOTE] Explain why. I am missing something.
[QUOTE=cyanide101;21930376]This just in, Americans are dumb, xenophobic, and hate the environment.[/QUOTE] Yeah. That's about right. Not that you can do anything about it. It's not that I love dumb, xenophobic, anti-environmental people, I just don't hate them enough to do something about it. And apparently that's a good thing, judging by our GDP and military strength.
[QUOTE=Morcam;21949948]Yeah. That's about right. Not that you can do anything about it. It's not that I love dumb, xenophobic, anti-environmental people, I just don't hate them enough to do something about it. And apparently that's a good thing, judging by our GDP and military strength.[/QUOTE] I don't understand this post. Are you saying America is powerful because it exploits the environment? And that somehow military strength means that you are great?
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;21950014]I don't understand this post. Are you saying America is powerful because it exploits the environment? And that somehow military strength means that you a great?[/QUOTE] I'm saying America is powerful because we oppress the rest of the world through economic, environmental, scientific, social, and militaristic means. Not directly related to the immigration bill, but the offshore drilling should be obvious.
[QUOTE=Morcam;21950038]I'm saying America is powerful because we oppress the rest of the world through economic, environmental, scientific, social, and militaristic means. Not directly related to the immigration bill, but the offshore drilling should be obvious.[/QUOTE] America is powerful because while the rest of the developed world burned, you guys developed. America is powerful now because it was clever when reconstructing what was left, not necessarily because of oppression.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;21948716]I know they are. Did I ever say they weren't? Unlike you, I acknowledge slaves and immigrants are being exploited. I want that changed. Jesus you can't fucking read. [editline]03:59PM[/editline] No, they fucking don't. Again, you're BLAMING unemployment stats on illegals, which they aren't fucking responsible for.[/QUOTE] They're being exploited, but they do it willingly, they come to the country for work, and more or less understand that they'll be given shit jobs that no one wants for little pay, but it's still better than where they were...I think. [editline]05:18PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;21950014]I don't understand this post. Are you saying America is powerful because it exploits the environment? And that somehow military strength means that you are great?[/QUOTE] Military strength means next to everything when you're talking about power.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;21950166]They're being exploited, but they do it willingly, they come to the country for work, and more or less understand that they'll be given shit jobs that no one wants for little pay, but it's still better than where they were...I think. [editline]05:18PM[/editline] Military strength means next to everything when you're talking about power.[/QUOTE] Not so much nowadays. I'd say economic strength is more important.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;21950213]Not so much nowadays. I'd say economic strength is more important.[/QUOTE] Take a look at Iraq. The two are inextricably linked. It's certainly less important today, but it allows the power to crush any small economic instabilities.
[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;21925043]-Kicking out illegals goes against the american way of immigration. -Drilling for more oil just reinforces our dependence on it, instead of furthering technology to move away from it.[/QUOTE] No. If people want to immigrate to America to live, that is fine. But the problem is when they come here and don't apply for citizenship or take any of the necessary steps to actually becoming a citizen. This allows them to get a job and not pay taxes, so basically the rest of the Americans have to pay taxes to support themselves and those who aren't paying them. And on the subject of the oil, I fully support the hard work and dedication going on to look for alternative sources, however if we just completely cut out our oil a lot of things would shut down because we still need it at this moment to continue our production of everything else. We drill for more oil, dropping the prices of oil allowing us to spend the money on.... wait for it..... alternative sources of energy. Right now we are spending a ton of money on oil so prices of everything else are inflated so no one wants to dish out any more money for alternative sources that don't benefit us directly in the next 10 minutes.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;21948611]Uh, it's true. A house slave was generally accepted as part of the family. They got free food and free room and board. Hell, even a farm slave got free living spaces in exchange for their work, instead of the climate of constant starvation and war in Africa.[/QUOTE] What you're describing is an internship, not slavery. Don't worry, I get the two confused sometimes as well.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21950278]What you're describing is an internship, not slavery. Don't worry, I get the two confused sometimes as well.[/QUOTE] I'm not going to support slavery or nothing, but they did get free food and housing. But they were treated so poorly, and I'm sure the food and housing was awful, but still.
[IMG]http://www.immigrationtourism.com/images/Illegal-immigration-bg.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://news.softpedia.com/images/news2/Some-Real-Facts-About-Native-Americans-2.jpg[/IMG] That is all.
I agree with it.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;21950424]I'm not going to support slavery or nothing, but they did get free food and housing. But they were treated so poorly, and I'm sure the food and housing was awful, but still.[/QUOTE] They also got free back massages with sharp objects and free work clothes consisting of shorts made out of potato sacks
[QUOTE=Teh_Cheese;21948595][url]http://tech.mit.edu/V129/N61/normandin.html[/url] This is how I feel about Illegal Immigration. They're illegal. That's pretty much it. Drilling though... not so much.[/QUOTE] yeah but you're 12 so your opinion doesn't count
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21950608]They also got free back massages with sharp objects and free work clothes consisting of shorts made out of potato sacks[/QUOTE] Not justifying slavery or anything(I've already made my stance clear earlier), but most slave owners didn't treat their slaves as horribly as you would think(minus the whole owning another person part). Remember that a slave is property, it's a tool that does work for you. You don't want to destroy your property to the point of it not working as efficiently. Although there were also many sadistic slave owners that seemed to take pleasure out of abusing their "property". Also, like I said, house slaves and servants were often accepted as part of the family. Women would confide in their servants.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;21951118]Not justifying slavery or anything(I've already made my stance clear earlier), but most slave owners didn't treat their slaves as horribly as you would think(minus the whole owning another person part). Remember that a slave is property, it's a tool that does work for you. You don't want to destroy your property to the point of it not working as efficiently. Although there were also many sadistic slave owners that seemed to take pleasure out of abusing their "property". Also, like I said, house slaves and servants were often accepted as part of the family. Women would confide in their servants.[/QUOTE] how romantic, almost makes me forget the work or be killed part
[QUOTE=thisispain;21951152]how romantic, almost makes me forget the work or be killed part[/QUOTE] I'm not saying it's good, or justified, but at the same time the actual physical abuse is exagerated at times.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;21951174]I'm not saying it's good, or justified, but at the same time the actual physical abuse is exagerated at times.[/QUOTE] you can't "exagerate" work or be killed
[QUOTE=the_KMM;21924888]I don't see how kicking out illegals or drilling for more oil is wrong.[/QUOTE] it isn't, people just advertise the bill wrongly, therefore barely anyone actually reads the bill, they are just forced to believe OMG RASSIST
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21951246]it isn't, people just advertise the bill wrongly, therefore barely anyone actually reads the bill, they are just forced to believe OMG RASSIST[/QUOTE] what a fantastic argument you know i don't remember why anyone takes you seriously anymore
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