• Police officer pepper sprays line of sitting students at UC Davis
    262 replies, posted
Those officers deserve to be punched out.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;33340198]I'm not sure what you mean by the cops getting "dropped", and I'm not sure I want to know.[/QUOTE] As in get mobbed to the ground/outnumbered.
[QUOTE=HolyCrusade;33339603]Resisting an officer's orders, try to keep up The protest was being evicted, and these individuals directly disobeyed[/QUOTE] ah i see they were charged with resisting arrest, so they resisted arrest and then were peppersprayed for resisting arrest, makes sense [editline]19th November 2011[/editline] hope i'm capable of "keeping up" with your blazing fast logic here "DA POLICE SED 2 LEVE SO THEY CAN PEPER SPRAY"
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;33340184] Do you understand this? The police are not protecting "the state" alone. They have a duty to the protestors as well, and prioritizing them is based on context. This is a hard concept to grasp, so I'll forgive your delays in understanding it until now, but hopefully the following will make this plain.[/quote] I don't know if you noticed or not, but what you quoted states [quote]whether he is actively resisting arrest [/quote] I would say sitting down and interlocking their arms together would count, but I'm no expert. More importantly, I think the question is more was what the students were doing legal rather than was the force the police used appropriate. [quote] [URL="http://www.ucpd.ucla.edu/policy/300Use_of_force.pdf"]Let's look at a police manual on escalation of force from the same state.[/URL] Let's apply these to this situation! (a) The officers were not at risk. (b) The potential risk of pepper spray is not massive, but it [I]can[/I] cause death in extreme cases and permanent injury. There's a reason the military doesn't advise it's use against broad crowds, because the likelihood of getting someone with a negative reaction during a mass use is high. You know a fleeing criminal isn't asthmatic- a sitting student? No clue. (c) Pepper spray really can't be controlled that well. It's subject to wind and everything else, being little more than a fluid or foam, making precise use hard. And once the burst is out, it's out, and there is no known eye flushing technique shown to help get it out any quicker than the natural method (crying for a while). (d) The offense involved was either unlawful assembly or resisting arrest- neither violent, and both only misdemeanors. (e) The level of resistance was nil. (f) There was no inherent need to clear that path immediately. (g) There was time, and this was a situation of passive demonstrators. This isn't an argument, it's a lecture, and you've just been schooled.[/QUOTE] (a) The mob of increasingly agitated and angry people indicates otherwise. (b) As my previous post pointed out, using physical force is just as, if not more, likely to cause injury. (c) What does that have to do with the degree of pain? (d) Resisting arrest is still a crime. (e) They may not have been using force or resisting in a "normal" way, but they were still resisting by sitting down and interlocking their arms. (f) I'll point back to point (a). The longer they were there, the more tense the situation could become. (g) The situation was clearly unstable (with that many upset people, at any second a brawl could break out), so I would argue there wasn't time to sit around waiting for the powder keg to blow. [QUOTE=Kopimi;33340260]ah i see they were charged with resisting arrest, so they resisted arrest and then were peppersprayed for resisting arrest, makes sense [editline]19th November 2011[/editline] hope i'm capable of "keeping up" with your blazing fast logic here "DA POLICE SED 2 LEVE SO THEY CAN PEPER SPRAY"[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what you're getting at, but they were told to leave, they didn't (obviously), so then the police tried to arrest them. At some point, they sat down and interlocked their arms, thus resisting arrest. At which point, the police used pepper spray in order to arrest them. [QUOTE=RaptorBlackz;33340191]I just want to see a riot break out and after the cops get dropped everyone disperses the area. Everybody wins![/QUOTE] Oh yes, because the police officers deserve to be beaten and perhaps even killed for doing their jobs. That makes perfect sense. This wouldn't have even been an issue if the students had left when the police instructed them to; at which point, they could have disputed the issue in a court. Instead, they decided to ignore the police and even sit down and interlock their arms to better resist being arrested.
"the police told them to leave so they gotta leave!!!!!!!" exactly why did the police have the ability to violate their right to peacefully assemble? [editline]19th November 2011[/editline] i hope you understand that just because they got through police academy doesn't mean they suddenly get to ignore the fundamental laws and rights of this country
[QUOTE=Kopimi;33340341]"the police told them to leave so they gotta leave!!!!!!!" exactly why did the police have the ability to violate their right to peacefully assemble? [editline]19th November 2011[/editline] i hope you understand that just because they got through police academy doesn't mean they suddenly get to ignore the fundamental laws and rights of this country[/QUOTE] I understand that, but I also understand that there are exceptions to every rule, including the right to peacefully assemble. Without knowing what is and isn't considered acceptable in that regard, I find it very hard to pass judgement on the police. Perhaps I hold too much trust in our police forces...
[QUOTE=DaMastez;33340401]I understand that, [B]but I also understand that there are exceptions to every rule, including the right to peacefully assemble.[/B] Without knowing what is and isn't considered acceptable in that regard, I find it very hard to pass judgement on the police. Perhaps I hold too much trust in our police forces...[/QUOTE] What. [SUB]What.[/SUB] [SUB][SUB]What. You know... Being able to restrict the right to peacefully assemble may as well be the definition of totalitarianism. [/SUB][/SUB]
[QUOTE=DaMastez;33340281]More importantly, I think the question is more was what the students were doing legal rather than was the force the police used appropriate.[/QUOTE] That's irrelevant, because that's not how the constitution of this country works. Go back and read it again. There is a balance police must strike between protecting the rights of individuals and the state. There is no "it was illegal so you can do to town" exception to justify excessive use of force. [QUOTE=DaMastez;33340281]but I'm no expert.[/QUOTE] I would suggest refraining from commenting on an issue like this until you had actually read the relevant material. Expertise doesn't matter, but there's no excuse for not actually learning about a subject before offering an opinion on it. I don't expect you to have taken constitutional law for law enforcement like me, just to be willing to catch up if you're going to discuss the issue. It's only one court case and one manual. And you're [I]right,[/I] they are "actively resisting" as that manual defines it, but there is a difference between being an active demonstrator and a passive one independent of actively resisting arrest and passively resisting arrest. You need to [I]read this,[/I] then talk. [QUOTE=Kopimi;33340341]i hope you understand that just because they got through police academy doesn't mean they suddenly get to ignore the fundamental laws and rights of this country[/QUOTE] What I find funny is that this nonsense is being discussed in law enforcement classes as examples of what not to do, and here it's being defended by people without a modicum of understanding of the rules.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;33340401]I understand that, but I also understand that there are exceptions to every rule, including the right to peacefully assemble. Without knowing what is and isn't considered acceptable in that regard, I find it very hard to pass judgement on the police. [b]Perhaps I hold too much trust in our police forces...[/b][/QUOTE] you've spent the past hour defending the decision of the police to pepper spray and risk permanent eye damage of peaceful students that are sitting on the ground yeah maybe you should reconsider how much thoughtless trust you put into the police
[QUOTE=DaMastez;33338367]That video is somewhat one sided being that it starts just when they are getting sprayed. More importantly, isn't it legal to peacefully protest if you get permission first (or something like that)? If so, and they failed to do so, it's their own fault. Also, put yourselves in one of the officer's shoes. With that many people, you would probably want to get the protesters and get out as quickly as you can. Pepper spraying them was probably the quickest ways to do so. Quite frankly, I don't see the problem if they were indeed breaking the law. The media sees a bunch of "harmless" students being "assaulted" by the police and thinks what a wonderful story it will make. If anything, I feel sorry for the police officers who were just doing their job which was made a whole lot harder by the mass of chanting students.[/QUOTE] Isn't this what it's all about? You're prancing around "legality" and using it as an excuse for inhumanity. What that officer did was fucking idiotic, and he'll get away with it because it's "legal"...
Why couldn't they have just dragged them off? There was plenty of police there. I'm not trying to generalize, but American cops seem to go for the easiest solution instead of putting some effort into it.
[QUOTE=Carne;33340830]Why couldn't they have just dragged them off? There was plenty of police there. I'm not trying to generalize, but American cops seem to [B]go for the easiest solution instead of putting some effort into it.[/B][/QUOTE] The [B]AMERICAN WAY!![/B] [sp]The way that started the whole economy crisis[/sp]
I get that the rating system is to stop pointless "I agree / I disagree" posts, but I'm interested as to your views, Someguy. How isn't the government being able to forcibly stop peaceful protest that doesn't infringe on other peoples' rights an abuse of power?
Whats next, throwing flashbangs?
[QUOTE=darth-veger;33341057]Whats next, throwing flashbangs?[/QUOTE] Been there, done that.
[QUOTE=Frankiscool!;33338642]All i can think is wow if the cops provoked them just a bit more, they'd get zerg rushed from all sides. Videos really got my blood pumping though.[/QUOTE] That would be a very effective way of discrediting the whole protest though. Even if it started out peaceful, if the police provoked people enough for a riot to break out, the police and officials can then turn around and say something like "look they don't even actually have a valid point, they're just all hooligans who want to break some shit" and the media would most likely join in.
Have any officials (bankers, businessmen, politicians, high ranking police etc.) opened a dialogue with any of the Occupy movements yet?
Dude, what the actual fuck? This disturbs me and makes me sick to my stomach.
I wonder what the sentence would be if a civilian pepper sprayed a cop
Whoa, I live in Davis. How did I not hear of this until now?
The police have been skirting a fine line so far. But with multiple police abuse videos floating around the internet from these protests one must ask oneself as to when the tipping point will be reached. Eventually, somewhere, someone is going to make the first move and it'll turn into a full on riot. For it to spread all it would take is one victory from the protestors of one town/city to make others think they can do it too.
I have a lot of respect for officers and sometimes see people going all "abuse" and what not over things that aren't that clear, but holy fuck, this obviously is a "lol go away we too lazy/weak to drag you away" act. Not to mention assault with a deadly weapon if anyone is astmathic there.
"Well, the kids was there having all opinions 'n shit, so we felt we had to intervene."
why the fuck would they do that
I don't blame the cops. Pretty sure that before this video started the group of people were asked to leave multiple times, and warned. They locked their arms for a reason.
Good.
You know, cops not allowing people to peacefully assemble seems like the US is morphing into a country very 1984 or Farenheit 451-esque.
[QUOTE=Chief Martini;33342049]I don't blame the cops. Pretty sure that before this video started the group of people were asked to leave multiple times, and warned. They locked their arms for a reason.[/QUOTE] Explain to me WHY people protest? People protest when they're not satisfied with certain situations. [B]These[/B] people are protesting [B]peacefully[/B], even. Now get this... protesting does NOT consist of going out, saying something bad about the current state of affairs and then immediately following every order a cop barks at you like a shepherd dog at a mass of sheep! They're defying orders because they are there to protest, not to be corralled around. What is being done to them for this protesting just sickens me. I understand when relocating is necessary because it is more damaging to the community itself but in cases like this, WHY? WHY spray them? Call me a warmonger, but I can't wait until the crowd snaps and the police, so far under the illusion of being "safe" from any repercussions/consequences in their uniform of power find [B]themselves[/B], face-first, smashed into the ground and cuffed. When they [B]themselves[/B] are sprayed and gassed. When they find [B]themselves[/B] on the receiving end of the longer side of a nightstick...
Fuck you guys I'm recording this shit with my [b][i]iPad![/i][/b] [img]http://i.imgur.com/yoJkl.png[/img]
This image will become an icon. [img]http://i.imgur.com/0UoEz.jpg[/img]
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