• Police officer pepper sprays line of sitting students at UC Davis
    262 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;33352026]You'd wait until the supposedly guilty party admitted to guilt before thinking they were guilty. You should have said this at the beginning, then I'd at least have known you didn't give two shits about the actual law.[/QUOTE] No, I'm going to wait for the courts opinion on the matter. If the police were in the wrong you like you seem to think, then why would nothing happen? While, if the police were in the wrong, it would be nice if the police admitted it, I think that would be unlikely. Instead, I suspect that lawsuits will be filed by the students, if there are any grounds for them. By official word, I meant via the court system, not the police.
[QUOTE=Van-man;33340850]The [B]AMERICAN WAY!![/B] [sp]The way that started the whole economy crisis[/sp][/QUOTE] We're Americans, damn it! We don't quit just because we're wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing until it turns out right!
OC is only for self defense immo, police versions like the one seen here if you're being attacked by like 20 guys at once. So far german police have done it mostly right, they simply drag people away instead of just attacking everyone like that.
[QUOTE=bobsmit;33349684]For those wondering, the linking arms and sitting was in response to this [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQw7wSGrfYk[/media][/QUOTE] Those officers deserve to be knocked out, seriously wtf.
[QUOTE=Hobo4President;33352916]Those officers deserve to be knocked out, seriously wtf.[/QUOTE] You are no better than they are.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;33353086]You are no better than they are.[/QUOTE] Right, because I'm sure Hobo4President believes it to be perfectly justified to abuse random nonviolent protesters.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;33353086]You are no better than they are.[/QUOTE] They were out of line there. If they had been attacked after that I would not have blamed the students for it. That said, I must especially commend the students for not fighting back. How the police are going to recover from this PR disaster I do not know.
Didn't see this posted yet, but then again I didn't look too hard. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8775ZmNGFY8[/media] [quote]A pretty remarkable thing just happened. A press conference, scheduled for *4:00pm* between the UC Davis Chancellor and police with local press on campus, did not end in an hour, as planned. Instead, a mass of Occupy Davis students and sympathizers mobilized outside, demanding to have their voice heard. After some initial confusion, UC Chancellor Linda Katehi refused to leave the building, attempting to give the media the impression that the students were somehow holding her hostage. A group of highly organized students formed a large gap for the chancellor to leave. They chanted “we are peaceful” and “just walk home,” but nothing changed for several hours. Eventually student representatives convinced the chancellor to leave after telling their fellow students to sit down and lock arms (around 7:00pm). One of the students pepper sprayed yesterday by chemicals that blew into his mouth (he was standing near the students huddled on the ground), a young man wearing a brown down coat over a tie-dye shirt, said he met with Kotehi and personally showed her a video of the pepper spraying attack. Speaking to about a thousand students with the “human mic,” the young man said he personally asked for her resignation. A few commenters and people on Twitter have asked why the chancellor is at the center of this firestorm over the police pepper spraying. Chancellor Katehi approved of the police action (though specifics of what she ordered exactly are still a mystery), and ordered the UC Davis cops to evict the protesters, resulting in the heinous pepper spraying video now plastered everywhere on the web. She has not apologized to the students or worked to remedy the situation — for instance, one student who was pepper sprayed told me she still has health problems after the incident, and no one from the administration contacted her to see if she’s okay. Katehi’s refusal to condemn the police action has only made a bad situation worse.[/quote] [url]http://thesecondalarm.wordpress.com/2011/11/20/ucdavis-chancellor-video/[/url]
[QUOTE=DaMastez;33349548]Alright, so what, you're going to handcuff the people who have interlocked their arms and are sitting on the ground how exactly? You're not, which is why you need some way of forcing them to unlink their arms. My question was more: What "better" way was there to separate them in order to then arrest them. I assumed that was implied, I guess not.[/QUOTE] In general, when you try to link your arms together with another person, the link isn't that sturdy and the officers can just pick you up and grab your arms. Unless you think linking arms works like welding, this is a stupid argument to make.
[QUOTE=bobsmit;33349684]For those wondering, the linking arms and sitting was in response to this [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQw7wSGrfYk[/media][/QUOTE] Those cops are freaking cowards. Unarmed students standing there doing nothing... and most of the blows were aimed at [b]girls.[/b] The cops were the aggressors in this video. I thought we learned from these kinds of actions from the civil rights protests and how those protesters were handled. Guess not.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;33352369]No, I'm going to wait for the courts opinion on the matter. If the police were in the wrong you like you seem to think, then why would nothing happen? While, if the police were in the wrong, it would be nice if the police admitted it, I think that would be unlikely. Instead, I suspect that lawsuits will be filed by the students, if there are any grounds for them. By official word, I meant via the court system, not the police.[/QUOTE] Why cant you look at the law, look at the video, and make up your own damn mind?
[QUOTE=Xain777;33353372]Why cant you look at the law, look at the video, and make up your own damn mind?[/QUOTE] I tried and personally I think it's a very fine line as to if the police were in the right depending on several different issues, none of which I have a clear enough understand of to say one way or another. I guess I don't really see a big gap between what's acceptable and what happened as some/most do. [QUOTE=Xain777;33353346]In general, when you try to link your arms together with another person, the link isn't that sturdy and the officers can just pick you up and grab your arms. Unless you think linking arms works like welding, this is a stupid argument to make.[/QUOTE] I can't really comment as I've never tried linking my arms with several other people then had the police try to remove me from said link. [QUOTE=Funcoot;33353364]Those cops are freaking cowards. Unarmed students standing there doing nothing... and most of the blows were aimed at [b]girls.[/b] The cops were the aggressors in this video. I thought we learned from these kinds of actions from the civil rights protests and how those protesters were handled. Guess not.[/QUOTE] It shouldn't matter who it's aimed at; the police shouldn't discriminate, a criminal is a criminal (not saying they are criminals, just saying a male criminal should be treated the same as a female criminal). Also, yet another video that starts just when the police start using violence.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;33353086]You are no better than they are.[/QUOTE] Care to explain how knocking out an officer utilising excessive force is as bad as beating unarmed and peacful protestors?
Why all these students are pussy
[QUOTE=DaMastez;33353469]I tried and personally I think it's a very fine line as to if the police were in the right depending on several different issues, none of which I have a clear enough understand of to say one way or another. I guess I don't really see a big gap between what's acceptable and what happened as some/most do. [/QUOTE] They got pepper sprayed for just fucking sitting on the ground and one of them even hospitalized this is full on assault for no reason at all. If I were to cause somebody to be hospitalized and cause I would be arrested for assault. Police officers should get it worse since they are meant to protect citizens.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;33353469]I tried and personally I think it's a very fine line as to if the police were in the right depending on several different issues, none of which I have a clear enough understand of to say one way or another. I guess I don't really see a big gap between what's acceptable and what happened as some/most do. I can't really comment as I've never tried linking my arms with several other people then had the police try to remove me from said link.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/pdf/pepperreport.pdf[/url] I'm going to post this again. I am also going to ask you, again, to start at page 19 of the document. that means after you click the link, go directly to the procedure 212-95 "Use of pepper spray devices." You will find on that page where it states how to use pepper spray, "Using two (2) one second bursts, at a minimum distance of three (3) feet[...]" Then on the next page, it specifically says not to use pepper spray on people who are passively resisting, and the best part, 5-b "do not sit, stand, or kneel on the persons chest or back" The entire video is like an example of what not to do, how the fuck can you defend this shit?
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/eTI3L.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=DaMastez;33352369]No, I'm going to wait for the courts opinion on the matter. If the police were in the wrong you like you seem to think, then why would nothing happen? While, if the police were in the wrong, it would be nice if the police admitted it, I think that would be unlikely. Instead, I suspect that lawsuits will be filed by the students, if there are any grounds for them. By official word, I meant via the court system, not the police.[/QUOTE] You realize that this will probably never see the courts, and be added to the long list of how many other cases of police brutality? I like how you intentionally distance yourself from the legality of their actual actions under the guise of "not knowing enough" while supporting that the courts will automatically figure out the correct way to do it. Be consistent at least.
Apparently the university where this happened, is investigating it and calls it "chilling" police brutality.
[QUOTE=bobsmit;33349684]For those wondering, the linking arms and sitting was in response to this [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQw7wSGrfYk[/media][/QUOTE] Jesus Christ look what they do to the three they managed to separate in the bottom left there, cops were beating them even though they clearly couldn't move and when they tried to they just got hit again and then another fucking cop comes along and starts to push one by the NECK with a baton! I want someone to come to one of these protests in a full anti-bear suit or something and act like a charger :V
[quote]Two UC Davis police officers have been placed on administrative leave following their use of pepper spray in Friday's arrest of protesters.[/quote] [url]http://twitter.com/#!/kcbsnews[/url]
Chief says its k cause officers were circled in and had to get out. Sorry Sir, Ill shoot you now because my flimsy arms cant move two of you to get out.
[QUOTE=Hobo4President;33353491]Care to explain how knocking out an officer utilising excessive force is as bad as beating unarmed and peacful protestors?[/QUOTE] I thought eye-for-an-eye punishment was bad? Now you're advocating beating someone over his actions, not to mention actually beating him is much worse than what he did in the first place. But of course he's a cop and he did something wrong, that means it's okay to brutalize him, right?
[QUOTE=bobsmit;33349684]For those wondering, the linking arms and sitting was in response to this [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQw7wSGrfYk[/media][/QUOTE] Those kids stood their ground like fucking champs. Kudos to everyone there. [editline]20th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=elfbarf;33357903] [quote]Two UC Davis police officers have been placed on administrative leave following their use of pepper spray in Friday's arrest of protesters.[/quote] [url]http://twitter.com/#!/kcbsnews[/url][/QUOTE] Administrative leave = paid vacation Not joking either, these officers now have full pay and benefits while sitting at home. (Better than them being on the street, I suppose)
[QUOTE=bobsmit;33349684]For those wondering, the linking arms and sitting was in response to this [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQw7wSGrfYk[/media][/QUOTE] Those kids stood their ground like fucking champs. Kudos to everyone there. [editline]20th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=elfbarf;33357903] [quote]Two UC Davis police officers have been placed on administrative leave following their use of pepper spray in Friday's arrest of protesters.[/quote] [url]http://twitter.com/#!/kcbsnews[/url][/QUOTE] Administrative leave = paid vacation Not joking either, these officers now have full pay and benefits while sitting at home. (Better than them being on the street, I suppose)
[QUOTE=elfbarf;33357903][url]http://twitter.com/#!/kcbsnews[/url][/QUOTE] Administrative leave means nothing. The officers that shot the man that charged another officer with a knife and slashed his face are also on administrative leave. It's more of a reward and than punishment.
[QUOTE=_Twitch_;33358708]Administrative leave means nothing. The officers that shot the man that charged another officer with a knife and slashed his face are also on administrative leave. It's more of a reward and than punishment.[/QUOTE] Well everyone is innocent until proven guilty so for obvious reasons the police shouldn't just immediately fire everyone accused of something. It's more to get them off the streets in case they [i]are[/i] bad officers. (Usually until the investigation reveals that they are perfect officers and then they go back to beating people)
Here is my question and since several members of FP seem to have some strange bearing of how the police should do their jobs, perhaps someone could enlighten me here. This does not entirely have to deal with the situation at hand, but I am seeing the same responses to situations like this in other threads, so, I guess we will see what the suggestions will be in response to this. Could get interesting here. My question is simple. Here's the situation. Let's say, for instance, that this protest was on private property or property in which a protest could not be held, or was blocking a major street and disrupting businesses, traffic, etc. Protestors are not acting violent however when the police arrived to have them move along to another location or to evict them off private property, they all sit down and lock arms. Police order the subjects numerous times to leave the area and their orders are ignored. At this point, in some locations, certain laws are being broken. (And it also depends on if it is private property or not.)But we still do not have any violent offenders. So, with that in mind, my question is to all of you who say that OC, tear gas, and other less-lethal methods should not be used - What should be used to evict offenders, break them up, and cause them to disperse? Do the police officers continue to stand around (And waste their time) Politely asking them to move? Do the police officers go hands on which dramatically increases the chance of physical injury to the protestors / police? Those are the only two options people are leaving here if they can not go to less-lethal. What would you suggest the police do in a situation like this? I am actually very curious, and I am not aiming to bash anyone. OC is nasty stuff, I have been hit with it several times. (Fox OC is the worst.) I have also experienced being tased by the X26 and M26 tasers. So, I, unlike many people on here, have experience with being directly hit with less lethal devices. [editline]20th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=_Twitch_;33358708]Administrative leave means nothing. The officers that shot the man that charged another officer with a knife and slashed his face are also on administrative leave. It's more of a reward and than punishment.[/QUOTE] Admin. Leave is standard procedure for any use of lethal force. It's not a reward nor a punishment. There are several procedures, tests, and other things an officer has to go through with after using lethal force. Admin. Leave is also always used on an officer under investigation. Regardless of innocence or guilt. An officer could be blatantly innocent and still be placed on Admin. Leave just because they are under an active investigation. Until that investigation is cleared - the officer is either back on duty or dismissed. The officers here are likely being investigated for excessive force. There for - they are put on leave pending the results of the investigation.
[QUOTE=HkSniper;33359059]-snip-[/QUOTE] well considering an eye witness stated that they forced open the mouths of a protester and sprayed it directly into their throat, I personally think that constitutes excessive use of force considering noone was previously at risk of being injured
[QUOTE=Xain777;33354343][url]http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/pdf/pepperreport.pdf[/url] I'm going to post this again. I am also going to ask you, again, to start at page 19 of the document. that means after you click the link, go directly to the procedure 212-95 "Use of pepper spray devices." You will find on that page where it states how to use pepper spray, "Using two (2) one second bursts, at a minimum distance of three (3) feet[...]" Then on the next page, it specifically says not to use pepper spray on people who are passively resisting, and the best part, 5-b "do not sit, stand, or kneel on the persons chest or back" The entire video is like an example of what not to do, how the fuck can you defend this shit?[/QUOTE] "O.C. pepper spray may be used when a member reasonably believes it is necessary to effect an arrest of a resisting suspect..." "In many cases, pepper spray will reduce or eliminate the need for substantial physical force to effect an arrest or gain custody. It will often reduce the potential for injuries to members and suspects that may result from physical restraint and it should be regarded as a possible alternative to such force and restrain, where practical." "O.C. pepper spray may be used in arrest or custodial restraint situations where physical presence and/or verbal commands have not been, or would not be, effective in overcoming physical resistance." It also says "Pepper spray shall not be used in situations that do not require the use of physical force." but some physical force would be needed at that point to remove the interlocked students. [QUOTE=SEKCobra;33354386][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/eTI3L.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] I don't know what you point is, probably "Do not use spray on subjects who passively resist"; linking ones arms takes effort and action. Also, note how it says "(Members who are specifically trained in the use of pepper spray for disorder control may use pepper spray in accordance with their training, and within Department guidelines, and as authorized by supervisors.)." [QUOTE=Mattk50;33354584]You realize that this will probably never see the courts, and be added to the long list of how many other cases of police brutality? I like how you intentionally distance yourself from the legality of their actual actions under the guise of "not knowing enough" while supporting that the courts will automatically figure out the correct way to do it. Be consistent at least.[/QUOTE] Let me pose a suggestion. Maybe the reason so many "police brutality" cases never see the courts is because they are not cases of police brutality and only appear that way due to biased video (not covering the full event) and news (police brutality seems to make a great story) sources, incomplete evidence, and the general assumption a lot of people seem to have that the police are bad.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.