Pope Francis sides with county clerks who refuse to issue gay marriage licenses - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Arrows;48789135]You know, with that logic, we should enforce other religions to follow suite, e.g. muslims being forced to sell alcohol, bacon etc or a hindu selling beef burgers. They are being paid for the job, which should over-rule their beliefs. Then again, i doubt either of those religions would have a follower issuing gay marriage licenses either. But hey, Christianity bashing is the latest trend.[/QUOTE] This is an absolutely nonsensical comparison and I'd have a hard time believing you thought about it for more than a second before you posted it. No one dragged her off the street and forced her to issue marriage licenses that conflict with her belief. She chose to take a public office and execute its duties but she failed to do so. If a Hindu works as a cook in a burger joint and not only refuses to cook burgers, but actively prevents others from cooking burgers as well, [I]he should not be surprised when he is fired[/I]. If the duties job she chose conflicted with her beliefs, she should leave it. Period. She was being paid by taxpayer money to fail to do her duty to the taxpayers. It doesn't matter if she's Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, or a radical homophobic atheist. It has nothing to do with her religion and everything to do with her failure to do her tax-funded job.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786399]So you can expect society to change for a minority (homosexuals) but not a majority (the religious). I'm not even religious and I'm supporting her. It's not like she took the job after the ruling and was like "by the way I'm not doing this." The job changed and required her to do something she found morally unacceptable. Don't know why gays deserve all these special privileges and ordinary people don't.[/QUOTE] They're working a [i]government[/i] job and have to do it, regardless of personal opinions. Also what special privileges do lgbt people get? Getting hurt/killed, insulted for liking the same/both sexes doesn't seem like a goddamn privilege to me.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48786369]Because he's supposed to be a religious leader, not a politician.[/QUOTE] that's right everybody the papacy of rome totally apolitical

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786365]rofl and why not? Gays can get married but if people want the right to have nothing to do with gay marriage but like their otherwise acceptable job they're horrible and stupid, right?[/QUOTE] yes, that's right

ill just leave this here [video=youtube;I-pZUQv8mjQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-pZUQv8mjQ[/video] This is how i feel every time people argue about rights, especially "god given rights" or "fundamental human rights"

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786382]He's being a religious leader. The church is opposed to gay marriage and he's saying people should have the right to not pariticipate in things that violate their conscience. He didn't even say no gay marriage, he just said other people should be able to abstain from having to be involved in it.[/QUOTE] They can abstain from being involved in it; resign and find a new job.

Why don't the people that tried to get married go to another person? Why are they creating problems like this? She is Christian, let her be. There is like 1000000 other people that can get you married. It's simple as that. But their main goal is attention from the media.

[QUOTE=vrej;48792044]Why don't the people that tried to get married go to another person? Why are they creating problems like this? She is Christian, let her be.[/QUOTE] Ah, I see. So because there are other options, this woman is not accountable for not doing her job. [editline]29th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=vrej;48792044]There is like 1000000 other people that can get you married. It's simple as that. But their main goal is attention from the media.[/QUOTE] Yeah, mhm. Everyone can just go a county over. Every person owns a car and that is easy and affordable for every single person that wants to get married. Definitely.

Are we all missing the fact that we aren't talking about marriage on it's own but same sex marriage?

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;48792121]Ah, I see. So because there are other options, this woman is not accountable for not doing her job. [editline]29th September 2015[/editline] Yeah, mhm. Everyone can just go a county over. Every person owns a car and that is easy and affordable for every single person that wants to get married. Definitely.[/QUOTE] I am just saying, because they acted like they needed to get married literally the second day. Like I said, if they were in such a hurry, why didn't they just go to another person and get married. Then come back and talk about the issue. That would have made more sense, but like I said, this was all for attention.

[QUOTE=vrej;48792460]I am just saying, because they acted like they needed to get married literally the second day. Like I said, if they were in such a hurry, why didn't they just go to another person and get married. Then come back and talk about the issue. That would have made more sense, but like I said, this was all for attention.[/QUOTE] The entire point is that people are looking for equal protection under the law, as is their constitutional right. Why didn't you say to gay people "move to another country/state where gay marriage is legal" before the Supreme Court ruling? Or maybe you did.

[QUOTE=vrej;48792460]I am just saying, because they acted like they needed to get married literally the second day. Like I said, if they were in such a hurry, why didn't they just go to another person and get married. Then come back and talk about the issue. That would have made more sense, but like I said, this was all for attention.[/QUOTE] They pay their taxes there, they are funding her office, they are entitled under the law to have equal access to services available from their government. You can't just start throwing out exceptions for this that and the other things, she personally could have asked a judge if her deputy could file the paperwork instead of her, she could have checked with her country's legal system on what to do to accommodate her beliefs and allow the marriages, instead she stopped everything, and put herself above the law. Any judge would have clarified that her deputy who was fine with signing these certificates, could do the job, but she ordered her deputy and her other clerks to not issue licenses, now she's changing forms and again sticking herself in front of the process and will face contempt again [editline]30th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Lebofly;48792203]Are we all missing the fact that we aren't talking about marriage on it's own but same sex marriage?[/QUOTE] This could be about her refusal to issue tax documents for all it matters, its not the substance of her beliefs, or even her religion, its about her actions

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;48786412]Yes. Rights exist to protect the minority from the majority. If most people want to enslave the blacks again, does that make it a-okay? She does have the right to refuse. But in doing so she needs to resign. Otherwise she is just not doing her job, and she is paid by taxpayer money.[/QUOTE] I agree with this. She can't be forced to act against her conscience, but then she should resign on the spot.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786399]Don't know why gays deserve all these special privileges and ordinary people don't.[/QUOTE] What special privilege?

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786399]So you can expect society to change for a minority (homosexuals) but not a majority (the religious). I'm not even religious and I'm supporting her. It's not like she took the job after the ruling and was like "by the way I'm not doing this." The job changed and required her to do something she found morally unacceptable. Don't know why gays deserve all these special privileges and ordinary people don't.[/QUOTE] Kim Davis' job description is to issue marriage licenses to people who can get married. I don't care if the definition of marriage changes to allow 'two people, a pig wearing a tutu and the personification of the concept of despair', that's her job.

If she signed up after gay marriage was legalised she is in a tricky situation. The bible is clearly against Homosexuality and I can understand anyone religious not wanting to pick and choose what is now not acceptable due to the changing world, a belief is a belief after all. I wonder how much society would be prepared to bend for someone who was Muslim in a similar situation?

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786441]It was poor phrasing. Surprised I haven't been banned for it honestly. I have no problem with gay marriage, I just don't like that she was jailed because a new law was passed after the fact and she found it morally objectionable. In the future, hirees should be expected to at least be alright enough with it to do the job, but just throwing someone in jail for not doing it who was already there just seems kinda wrong to me. Feels like we sacrificed the rights of some for the rights of another.[/QUOTE] The problem is not just that she "isn't doing her job," but that she is a [I]government official,[/I] who's job is to [I]uphold the law of the land.[/I] When you are a servant of the legal system, it is not your right to mold the law to your personal beliefs. Regardless of whether or not you like any particular statutes, the law is the law. As a servant of the system, you may either do your job, or resign. It's as simple as that. By refusing to uphold the law, she is in contempt of court, and wasting taxpayer money.

[QUOTE=Fourier;48793246]What special privilege?[/QUOTE] I think what his trying to say is that if let's say for an example 2 people get in fight. 1 is gay and the other is straight. Everyone will blame the straight guy because the other guy is gay, therefore it's not his fault. I know some people will disagree, but think about it.

[QUOTE=sgman91;48788244]You mean Catholic theology. Protestants hold to the Bible, which says: "5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5) Also, Catholics are slippery on this issue because they play a weird semantics game when defining words like 'worship,' 'veneration,' 'adoration,' etc. Their arguments aren't so much based on Biblical scripture, but on the results of synods and councils. The Bible clearly uses the term "latria," but it never uses the other two terms for worship that the Catholic church describes.[/QUOTE] The difference is that the bible isn't the end-all be-all for Catholicism. Both tradition and scripture are sacred (it's one of the strengths of Catholicism and one of the reasons it survived nearly two thousand years), it is from tradition that Catholics have saints and the such. Hence Catholics do [b]not[/b] worship saints rather than God, there are qualitative differences in how they go about doing prayer and worship and veneration.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48793942]The difference is that the bible isn't the end-all be-all for Catholicism. Both tradition and scripture are sacred (it's one of the strengths of Catholicism and one of the reasons it survived nearly two thousand years), it is from tradition that Catholics have saints and the such. Hence Catholics do [b]not[/b] worship saints rather than God, there are qualitative differences in how they go about doing prayer and worship and veneration.[/QUOTE] I think religion although pigeon holed to a type is often purely subjective. Edit Err maybe not if you are Muslim.

[QUOTE=vrej;48793765]I think what his trying to say is that if let's say for an example 2 people get in fight. 1 is gay and the other is straight. Everyone will blame the straight guy because the other guy is gay, therefore it's not his fault. I know some people will disagree, but think about it.[/QUOTE] ... [I]what?![/I]

[QUOTE=Zuimzado;48794190]... [I]what?![/I][/QUOTE] lol [QUOTE]think about it.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=vrej;48793765]I think what his trying to say is that if let's say for an example 2 people get in fight. 1 is gay and the other is straight. Everyone will blame the straight guy because the other guy is gay, therefore it's not his fault. I know some people will disagree, but think about it.[/QUOTE] Are you for real?

combo breaker

[QUOTE=vrej;48793765]I think what his trying to say is that if let's say for an example 2 people get in fight. 1 is gay and the other is straight. Everyone will blame the straight guy because the other guy is gay, therefore it's not his fault. I know some people will disagree, but think about it.[/QUOTE] I did think about it and I've come to the conclusion that you have extremely jaded views on society

[QUOTE=Kyle902;48794228]I did think about it and I've come to the conclusion that you have extremely jaded views on society[/QUOTE] Nah its the truth, I just don't know how to explain it properly. I have nothing against gays, if I was a clerk I would let them marry

[QUOTE=vrej;48794279]Nah its the truth, I just don't know how to explain it properly.[/QUOTE] It really isn't.

[QUOTE=vrej;48794279]Nah its the truth, I just don't know how to explain it properly.[/QUOTE] Then why bother saying it at all? [quote]I have nothing against gays, if I was a clerk I would let them marry[/QUOTE] Then what the hell was the point of your entire tirade?

Well, can't be right about everything. Still the best pope in a long friggin' time.

[QUOTE=vrej;48792044]Why don't the people that tried to get married go to another person? Why are they creating problems like this? She is Christian, let her be. There is like 1000000 other people that can get you married. It's simple as that. But their main goal is attention from the media.[/QUOTE] It's also about making sure somebody can't go "nyeh, I don't like doing my job, it's against my religious beliefs." Well get rid of her and find someone who will.