Barack Obama plans intervention in Britain's EU referendum
71 replies, posted
[QUOTE=proboardslol;49749220]He can make a statement and say his opinion if he wants. The voters of the UK don't have to listen to him, but there's nothing wrong with him putting a video on youtube, stating his thoughts on the matter.[/QUOTE]
Sure thing he's welcome to, I'd appreciate his opinion.
So long as that's as far as it goes.
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49749243]Sure thing he's welcome to, I'd appreciate his opinion.
So long as that's as far as it goes.[/QUOTE]
What do you think he's gonna do, declare martial law and physically duct tape the UK to France?
[QUOTE=proboardslol;49749313]What do you think he's gonna do, declare martial law and physically duct tape the UK to France?[/QUOTE]
ah, you read the leaked mgs6 script too?
[QUOTE=proboardslol;49749313]What do you think he's gonna do, declare martial law and physically duct tape the UK to France?[/QUOTE]
Away with your ad-absurdum bullshit.
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49751718]Away with your ad-absurdum bullshit.[/QUOTE]
That's a fallacy? Had to check. Wasn't sure pseudo-intellectuals had come up with some fancy insult in latin for spitting on people making a joke
[QUOTE=Dr.Critic;49752007]That's a fallacy? Had to check. Wasn't sure pseudo-intellectuals had come up with some fancy insult in latin for spitting on people making a joke[/QUOTE]
Nice try. It's implying that doing anything more than stating an opinion would be something as outlandish as declaring martial law and all that shit, and therefore because physically taping the UK to France isn't ever going to happen, neither is anything more than stating an opinion -this is not necessarily true and in reducing it down to an absurd scenario he is trying to undermine the overall argument in which I'm hoping that Barack Obama will [I]only[/I] share his opinion, and not take an active political role via negative trade offers as a consequence of Brexit and so forth. Stay in school.
Good guy Obama is going to help save us from our own stupidity.
[editline]16th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49752023]Nice try. It's implying that doing anything more than stating an opinion would be something as outlandish as declaring martial law and all that shit, and therefore because physically taping the UK to France isn't ever going to happen, neither is anything more than stating an opinion -this is not necessarily true and in reducing it down to an absurd scenario he is trying to undermine the overall argument in which I'm hoping that Barack Obama will [I]only[/I] share his opinion, and not take an active political role via negative trade offers as a consequence of Brexit and so forth. Stay in school.[/QUOTE]
"stay in school" soz rock.
What does Obama have to gain from the UK staying in the EU? Squat.
What does he have to gain from UK leaving? UK being in a weaker position for bargaining and with less influence on the EU might mean the US can take advantage and get some "negative trade offers".
Most arguements made by euroskeptics are based on fallacy (immigration, they make our laws bla bla bla), the rest warrant reform at most. Leaving is a fucking stupid thing to do.
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49752023]Nice try. It's implying that doing anything more than stating an opinion would be something as outlandish as declaring martial law and all that shit, and therefore because physically taping the UK to France isn't ever going to happen, neither is anything more than stating an opinion -this is not necessarily true and in reducing it down to an absurd scenario he is trying to undermine the overall argument in which I'm hoping that Barack Obama will [I]only[/I] share his opinion, and not take an active political role via negative trade offers as a consequence of Brexit and so forth. Stay in school.[/QUOTE]
Hyperbole might not be conducive to debate, but trying to avoid the point you so clearly understood behind it by using the fallacy button is also entirely not conducive to debate. Try actually explaining to us how realistically Obama would go further than giving an opinion.
You didn't make some grand multi paragraph long argument, you literally just stated a simple opinion that you only want to hear Obama's opinion. And you got super defensive over a quip at it.
(Twice)
There's no reasoning with you people is there?
Some quality arguments there, loving the sources, loving the "soz rock", loving the hyperbole and ridiculous assertions and I'm loving the obsession with showing me how personally ridiculous I'm being rather than actually trying to respectfully forward your opinions with facts and try to change my mind, as it normally works.
Please find where Obama has nothing to gain from the UK staying in the EU. I implore you to find a good source for that because it just is not true. [B]If we left the European Union, Britain would have the authority to say no to the TTIP, and we probably would.[/B] To the USA this will not be tolerated and the US may threaten us with trade implications, as they already are doing. Where we legally would actually have better opportunities for free trade with the US.
[url]http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/29/us-warns-britain-it-could-face-trade-barriers-if-it-leaves-eu[/url]
I'm not talking shit about immigration at the moment. We're on trade and economics here. Not every Eurosceptic has the same "muh jobs!" rhetoric.
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49752322]There's no reasoning with you people is there?
Some quality arguments there, loving the sources, loving the "soz rock", loving the hyperbole and ridiculous assertions and I'm loving the obsession with showing me how personally ridiculous I'm being rather than actually trying to respectfully forward your opinions with facts and try to change my mind, as it normally works. [/quote]
yes
[quote]
Please find where Obama has nothing to gain from the UK staying in the EU. I implore you to find a good source for that because it just is not true. [B]If we left the European Union, Britain would have the authority to say no to the TTIP, and we probably would.[/B][/quote]
For real? No. Cameron and the tories would not vote against the TTIP. I'm not sure why would think they would. [URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ttip-david-cameron-attempts-to-rally-support-for-controversial-international-trade-deal-9934330.html"]Cameron pledged his support to the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, otherwise known as TTIP, right from the start. But when it came to the election, TTIP was firmly off the agenda.... TTIP: David Cameron attempts to rally support for controversial international trade deal[/URL]
Lol coming at this from another point of view, Maybe the UK should leave, it would the EU from assholes like Cameron and Farage.
[quote]
To the USA this will not be tolerated and the US may threaten us with trade implications, as they already are doing. Where we legally would actually have better opportunities for free trade with the US.
[url]http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/29/us-warns-britain-it-could-face-trade-barriers-if-it-leaves-eu[/url][/quote]
Trade deals would have to be renegotiated and the UK having less bargaining power would leave us weaker and any deals proposed would be less in our favour. This is not the US threatening us, this is the US taking advantage of a situation and doing what is in their interest. those barriers would only stand till deals were made but the deals made won't be as favourable as our current ones, I tell you that.
[quote]
I'm not talking shit about immigration at the moment. We're on trade and economics here. Not every Eurosceptic has the same "muh jobs!" rhetoric.[/QUOTE]
Most are. The economics are debatable but I think most of what you said in your post was wrong.
ps. Glad you like soz rock, I've been using it for a few years now. Learnt it from a geordie. Feel free to use it if you like.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49752395]yes
For real? No. Cameron and the tories would not vote against the TTIP. I'm not sure why would think they would. [URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ttip-david-cameron-attempts-to-rally-support-for-controversial-international-trade-deal-9934330.html"]Cameron pledged his support to the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, otherwise known as TTIP, right from the start. But when it came to the election, TTIP was firmly off the agenda.... TTIP: David Cameron attempts to rally support for controversial international trade deal[/URL]
Lol coming at this from another point of view, Maybe the UK should leave, it would the EU from assholes like Cameron and Farage.
Trade deals would have to be renegotiated and the UK having less bargaining power would leave us weaker and any deals proposed would be less in our favour. This is not the US threatening us, this is the US taking advantage of a situation and doing what is in their interest. those barriers would only stand till deals were made but the deals made won't be as favourable as our current ones, I tell you that.
Most are. The economics are debatable but I think most of what you said in your post was wrong.
ps. [B]Glad you like soz rock, I've been using it for a few years now. Learnt it from a geordie. Feel free to use it if you like.[/B][/QUOTE]
Just to reply to this quickly before the rest. Yeah, it's what my mum used to say when I were younger :v:
[editline]16th February 2016[/editline]
[quote]For real? No. Cameron and the tories would not vote against the TTIP. I'm not sure why would think they would. Cameron pledged his support to the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, otherwise known as TTIP, right from the start. But when it came to the election, TTIP was firmly off the agenda.... TTIP: David Cameron attempts to rally support for controversial international trade deal
Lol coming at this from another point of view, Maybe the UK should leave, it would the EU from assholes like Cameron and Farage.[/quote]
While it's true that Cameron and the tories are enjoying the prospects of the TTIP, you have to admit that there is huge controversy surrounding it and the implications of it of our NHS, it even says that in your source. As it stands we would not be in a position to refuse it, and would be leaving the NHS in the hands of other foreign powers, while we're already struggling to maintain it (See: The huge junior doctor strike this week). This is the most comfortable position for Obama and therein lies the US interest. If we're out of the EU, and even if DC and co' worship the TTIP, there's still [I]always the chance[/I] that a new leader would come and take a huge shit over the TTIP, or even a referendum if there's enough of an outcry, and there's too much uncertainty in that.
[quote]However, some analysts say that these benefits are considerably overestimated and outweighed by the threats that FTAs pose. For example, for the UK:
FTAs give transnational corporations the right to enter the UK market and operate without limits on their activities.[/quote]
[quote]This means, for example, that if a future government wanted to reverse the privatisation of the NHS, it could be sued under ISDS by Canadian private health companies for damaging their profits. [/quote]
[url]http://www.patients4nhs.org.uk/eu-us-free-trade-agreement-or-ttip/[/url]
I honestly believe it's the right thing for us to do and if you don't then you should also fight for what you think is the right thing to do also.
[editline]16th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49752395]
Most are. The economics are debatable but I think most of what you said in your post was wrong.
.[/QUOTE]
I try to back up everything I can so there's minimum opinion and more facts and sources. Please tell me which part you believe to be wrong, as I don't think there is anything objectively wrong that I said.
[editline]16th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49752395]
Trade deals would have to be renegotiated and the UK having less bargaining power would leave us weaker and any deals proposed would be less in our favour. This is not the US threatening us, this is the US taking advantage of a situation and doing what is in their interest. those barriers would only stand till deals were made but the deals made won't be as favourable as our current ones, I tell you that.
[/QUOTE]
This is true especially given the recent international outcry as us leaving. This outcry and melodrama has weakened our position and I'll be the first to admit that. It's true that the US is taking advantage of a situation and doing what is in their interest, but it's also a threat, as it's something that they have not yet done but have agreed to do should we agree to take a particular course of action.
Nothing really do disagree with in this part of your post
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49752401]
While it's true that Cameron and the tories are enjoying the prospects of the TTIP, you have to admit that there is huge controversy surrounding it and the implications of it of our NHS, it even says that in your source. As it stands we would not be in a position to refuse it, and would be leaving the NHS in the hands of other foreign powers, while we're already struggling to maintain it (See: The huge junior doctor strike this week). This is the most comfortable position for Obama and therein lies the US interest. If we're out of the EU, and even if DC and co' worship the TTIP, there's still [I]always the chance[/I] that a new leader would come and take a huge shit over the TTIP, or even a referendum if there's enough of an outcry, and there's too much uncertainty in that.
[url]http://www.patients4nhs.org.uk/eu-us-free-trade-agreement-or-ttip/[/url]
I honestly believe it's the right thing for us to do and if you don't then you should also fight for what you think is the right thing to do also.
[/quote]
Don't have to argue the implications of TTIP. Hate it and the people pushing it. If they died tomorrow I wouldn't mourn their loss. They're fucking greedy, megalomaniac parasites.
The TTIP and EU membership aren't the same though. If we leave the TTIP will never be up for public vote or referendum. The media and government have kept it very quiet all this time and it will stay that way. The tories want it and IMO most of the new labour and UKIP will probably push for it anyway; SNP, green and left labour members might fight it but they'll be a minority.
If we stay in the EU at least some of the more left wing european parties will help fight it, neuter it or even just raise awareness for it, so the people can demand we don't have it. Odds are either way we'll have it forced on us so its not really a valid argument against the EU.
[quote]
I try to back up everything I can so there's minimum opinion and more facts and sources. Please tell me which part you believe to be wrong, as I don't think there is anything objectively wrong that I said.
This is true especially given the recent international outcry as us leaving. This outcry and melodrama has weakened our position and I'll be the first to admit that. It's true that the US is taking advantage of a situation and doing what is in their interest, but it's also a threat, as it's something that they have not yet done but have agreed to do should we agree to take a particular course of action.
[/quote]
My points about the TTIP being forced on us regardless and the less favourable trade deals were meant to counter the points you made for it being favourable to leave. Not sure if it was framed in a well enough way.
Can I try and put this another way. What would need to be changed/reformed for you to view continued EU membership more favourably?
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