Students across the U.S. mass protest against decadence surrounding education systems. Demand purges - Polidicks

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49107113]Media often exaggerates the number of people at events they support so as to impress a larger sense of importance.[/QUOTE] The number was even more inflated by different activist groups being there. Like I probably saw more people in shirts that said "nurses for Bernie Sanders" (I don't remember what they actually said but it was basically that) than students in the protest.

[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;49106356]i bet that none of the protestors are engineers[/QUOTE] Please don't sprain your wrists in the needless STEM circlejerk. Your hands are too good at typing good posts.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49107113]Media often exaggerates the number of people at events they support so as to impress a larger sense of importance.[/QUOTE] I don't know what media you're reading, but if I did that I'd be fired. If a headcount isn't provided, we estimate, but in that case it's "dozens, hundreds, thousands," etc.

students should protest about stuff like this that actually matters and is a good cause rather than that Yale bullshit that happened several days ago

I mean, to be honest the second you make college free your going to see an increase in the number of people attending, but a decrease in the number of those who take it seriously. What will they do to keep people from just retaking a class they fail over and over and over again? There's a lot of problems with making college completely free that I don't feel would be addressed, and ultimately it would become the new highschool diploma because standards would drop across the board. Also how would this effect for-profit colleges? I imagine a lot of diploma factories being a result of such a system which would only increase the number of employers who don't take diplomas from certain colleges seriously. I mean free higher education is a noble goal and all but I just don't see it working out. Maybe dramatically increase the number of scholarships and have States increase student teaching capacity or something, but I just don't see highschool 2.0 working out.

Maybe all of these students who are going tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt should make sure that they are spending that wisely on a degree that could actually lead to a good job that could pay that off. I see so many people spending four years getting a bachelors degree in something like that they thought would be fun or cool, never really considering if there is a major need for someone with their degree or if it pays well even if they could get a job in their field. Many people simply waste their education and then complain about there being no jobs when in reality they were given all the tools to succeed and chose wrong.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49108040]I mean, to be honest the second you make college free your going to see an increase in the number of people attending, but a decrease in the number of those who take it seriously. What will they do to keep people from just retaking a class they fail over and over and over again? There's a lot of problems with making college completely free that I don't feel would be addressed, and ultimately it would become the new highschool diploma because standards would drop across the board. Also how would this effect for-profit colleges? I imagine a lot of diploma factories being a result of such a system which would only increase the number of employers who don't take diplomas from certain colleges seriously. I mean free higher education is a noble goal and all but I just don't see it working out. Maybe dramatically increase the number of scholarships and have States increase student teaching capacity or something, but I just don't see highschool 2.0 working out.[/QUOTE] I agree completely with what you're saying. I feel like we need to offer free programs for trades, automotive repair and stuff like that. People that want a better education should be able to get a good education without having to apply to one of those job core type places. If I wanted to take an automotive class let's say I think we could more than likely help young people get into trades. The only thing that shouldn't be free in these instances would be the tools necessary for the trade (maybe the school could provide tools in the shop for every student so if they don't like the course they aren't getting in debt just to explore). Also I'm not sure if there are a lot of trade high schools but there's one near me that is an alternative high school. Are there a lot of these near you guys where you live? I think there needs to be more of these alternative high schools for the "under performing students" that learn hands on. When my father was younger if you didn't cut it in high school that sent you to the alternative public trade high school (where my father learned electrical and now has his own business which is very successful). But that same trade school my father went to is now stupid hard to get into because there's not enough if them out there. What do you guys think? I'm not sure that I'm right about all this that's why I'm asking to discuss this. Also to clarify I'm not talking about fucking wood shop class or that stupid shit. I'm taking about welding classes, electrical classes, auto repair classes with tools and lifts. Also things like machining classes, chef/cooking programs (all that could be government funded for young people and like at the school I'm taking about there's a small fee for adult night classes. Example: I might take a $600 beginners welding class).

one problem I possibly see, and maybe this isn't a factor or someone can prove me wrong, professors are paid pretty well, right? i've heard, at least, that chemical engineering professors can be paid upwards of six figures. where would this money come from if tuition is lowered? believe me though, i've seen (what looks like) gross misuse of tuition. my school in particular builds all sorts of shit no one uses (a sauna?), it almost looks like an excuse to spend our tuition on stuff.

[QUOTE=apierce1289;49108581]I agree completely with what you're saying. I feel like we need to offer free programs for trades, automotive repair and stuff like that. People that want a better education should be able to get a good education without having to apply to one of those job core type places. If I wanted to take an automotive class let's say I think we could more than likely help young people get into trades. The only thing that shouldn't be free in these instances would be the tools necessary for the trade (maybe the school could provide tools in the shop for every student so if they don't like the course they aren't getting in debt just to explore). Also I'm not sure if there are a lot of trade high schools but there's one near me that is an alternative high school. Are there a lot of these near you guys where you live? I think there needs to be more of these alternative high schools for the "under performing students" that learn hands on. When my father was younger if you didn't cut it in high school that sent you to the alternative public trade high school (where my father learned electrical and now has his own business which is very successful). But that same trade school my father went to is now stupid hard to get into because there's not enough if them out there. What do you guys think? I'm not sure that I'm right about all this that's why I'm asking to discuss this.[/QUOTE] I agree with you. It's a shame to see all the shop/trade classes being pulled out of curriculum in schools with a higher focus on standardized test scores and college admittance. Grade inflation is getting ridiculous, where the average student is now a B/A student, where C was and should be the literal average grade. So many people would benefit from being able to participate in trade schools or trade classes in Highschool. Not everyone cuts it for college level work, so instead of lowering the bar and lessening requirements and difficulty so the people who couldn't cut it before are now the average, they should instead push them towards something that is actually able to provide a quality life with pride. You're way more likely to make a good living wage without difficulty, wherever you are in the country as an certified electrician than you are someone with a $45,000 degree in psychology. [editline]13th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Keelwar;49108607]one problem I possibly see, and maybe this isn't a factor or someone can prove me wrong, professors are paid pretty well, right? i've heard, at least, that chemical engineering professors can be paid upwards of six figures. where would this money come from if tuition is lowered? believe me though, i've seen (what looks like) gross misuse of tuition. my school in particular builds all sorts of shit no one uses (a sauna?), it almost looks like an excuse to spend our tuition on stuff.[/QUOTE] Most professors at Universities are not paid well. A lot are associate professors making as little as $40k a year. It absolutely depends on the field you're in. My mom makes six figures as a tenured professor of nursing, but nursing is big money for universities and there is a very significant shortage of nursing professors, driving the wage up. Same with professors in the technologies. There's a common attitude of "We get paid shit, but at least we're in higher education" attitude among professors in the arts and sciences from what I've seen.

[QUOTE=Ajacks;49108380]Maybe all of these students who are going tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt should make sure that they are spending that wisely on a degree that could actually lead to a good job that could pay that off. I see so many people spending four years getting a bachelors degree in something like that they thought would be fun or cool, never really considering if there is a major need for someone with their degree or if it pays well even if they could get a job in their field. Many people simply waste their education and then complain about there being no jobs when in reality they were given all the tools to succeed and chose wrong.[/QUOTE] I would argue that the idea of college as a "degree factory" is a relatively new concept that degrades what college should be. It's not for job training, that's how you end up in the situation we're in now. There is this idea in our culture that everybody needs to go to college, that a college degree is somehow a magical job-granting certificate. There are plenty of well-paying jobs in the trades, and I think if we tried to push that, we could go back to the university paradigm of higher education for education's sake. Right now we're just producing junk degrees because nobody understands the purpose of a humanities major -- it's not there to get an easy degree, it's there if you have a passion for the humanities.

[QUOTE=Ajacks;49108380]Maybe all of these students who are going tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt should make sure that they are spending that wisely on a degree that could actually lead to a good job that could pay that off. I see so many people spending four years getting a bachelors degree in something like that they thought would be fun or cool, never really considering if there is a major need for someone with their degree or if it pays well even if they could get a job in their field. Many people simply waste their education and then complain about there being no jobs when in reality they were given all the tools to succeed and chose wrong.[/QUOTE] Becaise growing up in america we're told that we can be whatever we want, that we should pursue our dreams. One of the things about college I heard all throughout high school 'dont follow the money, just learn what you love doing' Good thing I love compsci

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49105842]I can see free tuition at the cost of civil or military service but free tuition across the board is not realistic. More affordable education though? Yes.[/QUOTE] It's better for everyone to give out free education than to collect money from it. It's the same thing as giving everyone the basic health care they need for free, in the way that it saves us much more money down the line. It costs us more to fix problems once they get serious than it does to treat or prevent them early on.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49108040]I mean, to be honest the second you make college free your going to see an increase in the number of people attending, but a decrease in the number of those who take it seriously. What will they do to keep people from just retaking a class they fail over and over and over again? There's a lot of problems with making college completely free that I don't feel would be addressed, and ultimately it would become the new highschool diploma because standards would drop across the board. Also how would this effect for-profit colleges? I imagine a lot of diploma factories being a result of such a system which would only increase the number of employers who don't take diplomas from certain colleges seriously. I mean free higher education is a noble goal and all but I just don't see it working out. Maybe dramatically increase the number of scholarships and have States increase student teaching capacity or something, but I just don't see highschool 2.0 working out.[/QUOTE] That scenario would be plausible if we didn't already have real-world examples of countries with free higher education. Places like Sweden and Norway offer free college, and they have higher graduation rates and higher degree value than we do, in a paid system. There are other reasons for that, of course, but obviously it means that having free education does not discount the value of a degree. In those countries, you only go to college if you want to, there's nothing forcing you. And you've still got other options, like trade skills and blue collar work. That last part's the biggest issue for us. We have a declining blue collar workforce because nobody wants to do that work, and we're supplementing that with migrant labor or outsourcing it entirely. It is incredibly difficult to get a job as a factory man now, which used to be an extremely well-paying job with a pension. It's not a problem with the migrant labor, the migrant labor is just a response. The problem is we don't want to do these jobs, everybody wants to go to college instead. So now we're getting CS grads that live in their cars in the middle of Silicon Valley. STEM degrees are reaching a point of supersaturation, which both lessens the value of the degree (they're getting paid less), and they're less hireable on an individual basis (there are so many of them, and only so many jobs).

[QUOTE=GeeOhDee;49109183]It's better for everyone to give out free education than to collect money from it. It's the same thing as giving everyone the basic health care they need for free, in the way that it saves us much more money down the line. It costs us more to fix problems once they get serious than it does to treat or prevent them early on.[/QUOTE] Civil or Military service is beneficial as well? Who's going to fund every single University in the USA if it were free? The taxpayers? In my opinion, you have the right to pursue higher education at an affordable cost or free depending on how much you contribute via civil or military service. But to say places like Yale, Harvard, Princeton, or any Ivy or Hidden Ivy league universities should have free tuition is naive. Community Colleges can satisfy the need for higher education and some public/state universities.

[QUOTE=Medevila;49105820]also allow me to be [del]cyinical[/del] realistic and say that a demographic that does not vote cannot expect representation in a [I]plurality*[/I] representative democracy[/QUOTE] You are a fool to believe voting without overhauling the government would change anything. Why do you think these college students are going to vote for Sanders (Sanders who suggested students should rise up)

[QUOTE=old_hag12;49110262]You are a fool to believe voting without overhauling the government would change anything. Why do you think these college students are going to vote for Sanders (Sanders who suggested students should rise up)[/QUOTE] Statistically, the vast majority of college students are not going to vote for Sanders because they aren't going to vote at all.

[QUOTE=sgman91;49110266]Statistically, the vast majority of college students are not going to vote for Sanders because they aren't going to vote at all.[/QUOTE] Yeah - In the ideal world that will change. Colleges are heavens for sheltering voting-age adults from the realities of their world. Only one way to find out. On another note... there is gonna be some serious lieing and cheating in the upcoming primaries, mark my words.

If they wanna give you a hard time give it right back? [url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/23/chile-student-loan-debts-fried-potatoes[/url]

[QUOTE=old_hag12;49110262]You are a fool to believe voting without overhauling the government would change anything. Why do you think these college students are going to vote for Sanders (Sanders who suggested students should rise up)[/QUOTE] Except they're not going to lol. Even if voting alone won't change much, it is a step towards the right direction. Like I said, if this demographic can't even be bothered to be vote, what makes you think that they're going to be any more politically active in other areas?

[QUOTE=thefreemann;49112614]Except they're not going to lol. Even if voting alone won't change much, it is a step towards the right direction. Like I said, if this demographic can't even be bothered to be vote, what makes you think that they're going to be any more politically active in other areas?[/QUOTE] Did a college student do something terrible to you?

[QUOTE=thefreemann;49112614]Except they're not going to lol. Even if voting alone won't change much, it is a step towards the right direction. Like I said, if this demographic can't even be bothered to be vote, what makes you think that they're going to be any more politically active in other areas?[/QUOTE] There's growing population of angry intelligent students who do follow politics. It's a small bunch. And I do agree with you, most will not vote. I pretty much have no hope left, but, wouldn't it be heart warming if the this demographic made a difference? This country is too far in the shiter anyway. 911 was a plot/Sandy Hook was a hoax and if Sanders is elected a civil war will erupt. Get out while you still can.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49105842]I can see free tuition at the cost of civil or military service but free tuition across the board is not realistic. More affordable education though? Yes.[/QUOTE] How is it unrealistic? Plenty of other countries do that exact same thing. I'm tired of this American exceptionalism bullshit where "we can't do x because it won't work in America". The only thing stopping it from working in America are people like you who dismiss it before it is even tried.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;49116010]How is it unrealistic? Plenty of other countries do that exact same thing. I'm tired of this American exceptionalism bullshit where "we can't do x because it won't work in America". The only thing stopping it from working in America are people like you who dismiss it before it is even tried.[/QUOTE] Americans think education needs to be expensive to be good. They are totally fucking blind.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49109856]Civil or Military service is beneficial as well? Who's going to fund every single University in the USA if it were free? The taxpayers? In my opinion, you have the right to pursue higher education at an affordable cost or free depending on how much you contribute via civil or military service. But to say places like Yale, Harvard, Princeton, or any Ivy or Hidden Ivy league universities should have free tuition is naive. Community Colleges can satisfy the need for higher education and some public/state universities.[/QUOTE] Ivy League schools are great for something but they're pushing v out so many law students its insane. [editline]14th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=thefreemann;49112614]Except they're not going to lol. Even if voting alone won't change much, it is a step towards the right direction. Like I said, if this demographic can't even be bothered to be vote, what makes you think that they're going to be any more politically active in other areas?[/QUOTE] Okay, look. You might be a jaded motherfucker like I am but this is stupid. Do you know what the Millenials grew up with? We grew up in the 90s, during a large economic expansion and everyone talking about how our dreams will be made if we go to to college. This line of reasoning continued until two years ago. We joined the workforce, as teenagers, when the market exploded in corrupt American Gov't Banking love triangle with money. Then all we've seen is older generations kick and scream at us, nothing changing because no one is willing to talk. We're not voting because what's the point with all the infighting? Combine with our loans that we have to pay off, we're more immediately looking toward our next fucking paycheck, not the next something something politician who will lie and cheat their way into anything, including an intern's panties. So how 'bout ya'll sit the fuck down and stop bashing Millienials because the world exploded in our faces and unlike our parents and grandparents, they accrued a lot of money when it did.

[QUOTE=Splash Attack;49106750]its really annoying when other engineering students are pretentious toward non-engineers.[/QUOTE] really REALLY hard not to be nearly impossible

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;49116100]really REALLY hard not to be nearly impossible[/QUOTE] Engineering is hyped to be hard and difficult. Nothing is as difficult as the world makes it seem. No one is too 'dumb' for engineering. I know some dumbass fucking kids going for PHDs. We are all the same. If you pretentious to others you are adding to this problem.

[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;49106356]i bet that none of the protestors are engineers[/QUOTE] le engineers guys, amirite? I am amused how so many engineers think they're honestly superior to other majors. Its not other people's fault that their passion in life or their favorite subject/career path isn't as difficult. School for engineers may be tougher, but getting a job is way easier. Opposite for liberal arts it seems, easier school but job market is a lot tougher. That and the difference in wages means loans are much harder for non-science/tech majors. Its not exactly fair, and while the world hardly ever is fair, giving more parity by helping make school more affordable for everyone is a splendid idea. [QUOTE=Splash Attack;49106750]As an Electrical Engineering major, I think its really annoying when other engineering students are pretentious toward non-engineers. Also, I am huge supporter of free higher education. One should not have to go into massive debt in order to receive something that should be a public service, regardless of the potential return on investment.[/QUOTE] Pretty much this as well, its a hilariously misplaced attitude. Once you're in the workplace or working at the higher levels of academia, you do a lot of work with people of plenty of different majors and realize that they're just as "useful" as you are. One of the most valuable members of our 3d printed clay extruder research team was a graduate art student specializing mostly in ceramic arts- well guess what they had a level of expertise and understanding of clay that proved vital, and helped think of applications of our product to their field. It was awesome!

[QUOTE=old_hag12;49116382]Engineering is hyped to be hard and difficult. Nothing is as difficult as the world makes it seem. No one is too 'dumb' for engineering. I know some dumbass fucking kids going for PHDs. We are all the same. If you pretentious to others you are adding to this problem.[/QUOTE] but all that is EXACTLY why it's really hard not to come off as pretentious, all it takes is an ounce of giving a shit it leads you to think less of people without even having a good reason [editline]14th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=paindoc;49118097]le engineers guys, amirite? I am amused how so many engineers think they're honestly superior to other majors. Its not other people's fault that their passion in life or their favorite subject/career path isn't as difficult. School for engineers may be tougher, but getting a job is way easier. Opposite for liberal arts it seems, easier school but job market is a lot tougher. [/QUOTE] what a canard it is to imply other majors are in it for the passion are you seriously going to tell me all those psych majors really love it how many millions of graduates show up with no idea what they want to do fuck college seriously

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;49118547]but all that is EXACTLY why it's really hard not to come off as pretentious, all it takes is an ounce of giving a shit it leads you to think less of people without even having a good reason [editline]14th November 2015[/editline] what a canard it is to imply other majors are in it for the passion are you seriously going to tell me all those psych majors really love it how many millions of graduates show up with no idea what they want to do fuck college seriously[/QUOTE] what a great attitude you have, between its "hard not to come off as pretentious" and "fuck college" So it leads to you thinking less of people without a good reason, because they aren't willing to put in what you define as hard work, but putting in that same "really hard work" to not think less of others is too much work? What is your point? Because it doesn't seem the one you are trying to make is salient at all.

it's not as hard people would like you to believe, the point of the post I quoted it leads you to think less of people, not that you're better than them but just that you despise them, without any real reason and my point is it's extremely easy to get caught stuck thinking that my other point is stop pushing this bullshit about your passions if you jumped around three majors before settling on film it's not your passion, you're as passionate as you were when you showed up for orientation