Nintendo To Begin YouTube Affiliate Program, Will Split Revenue with Youtubers
142 replies, posted
Something to remember is that a key part of fair use is that the derivative work be transformative and things like Let's Plays are very much transformative. They strip much of the entire function of the game away as well as typically overlay some manner of commentary over the game, which radically changes it from its original nature.
As well, people say "Well, the company is entitled to money for its product."
Yes, they are. At the point of first sale. That is where their control over that copy of the product ends as well as any entitlement to monetary compensation. The concept of First-Sale. After that, then so long as you do not interfere with their right to produce and distribute that product by making illegal copies, then they have zero say in the matter. Textbook manufacturers have recently been slapped around by courts over this exact issue. Student were selling their textbooks once they no longer needed them to students who did, and the publishers were suing them and the sites facilitating the sales. Courts eventually ruled that the publishers had zero say or control over what they did because of First-Sale. After receiving monetary compensation at first sale, the publisher lost all controlling interest in that product and could do nothing about it.
Nintendo is a dying company. This is them trying to grasp at some extra dollars to stay afloat.
The only thing they do is Mario Zelda Pokemon Mario Zelda Pokemon, and even as good as a wave that is, it's losing energy
[QUOTE=TheTalon;44930285]Nintendo is a dying company. This is them trying to grasp at some extra dollars to stay afloat.
The only thing they do is Mario Zelda Pokemon Mario Zelda Pokemon, and even as good as a wave that is, it's losing energy[/QUOTE]
They're not dying in the slightest. They have much more vaulted cash than you'd imagine.
Pretty sure even Sony is having bigger problems atm.
[QUOTE=Scotty.;44923708]So they want money from people for buying the game in the first place, then want to take a cut of hard work and effort they've put in to videos essentially giving Nintendo free advertisement for their games?
Fuck off.[/QUOTE]
shit I legit just thought that this my post and was extremely disappointed in myself
[QUOTE=Sift;44928870]Thing about the content ID matches was less "it's evil and hurting the lpers :(" but more the fact unrelated shit was striking [b]everything[/b]
Music companies were claiming video game videos, and even if say, Capcom said "yo this is fine by us." the musicians who don't care just opened their wallets and let it flow in saying "fuck off nerds this is ours."
[/QUOTE]
I wasn't talking about the content ID match shenanigans that happened in December, I was talking about [I]last May[/I] when Nintendo started hitting people with copyrights so they could get 100% of the revenue. This is what I'm referring to:
[thumb]http://i.gyazo.com/78f2ce01fa55e5fb6c5e8e696a5c9f01.png[/thumb]
[thumb]http://i.gyazo.com/ae123e097f7cb1ccb7b23e89da4423af.png[/thumb] (my posts in that thread, which...are still sadly relevant)
[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1270893[/url]
[url]http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/16/nintendo-enforces-copyright-on-youtube-lets-plays[/url]
[sp]Things don't generally change around here.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Sift;44928870]
As stated before this is "Hey we're allowing you to make money off our product. It's now legal. BUT you have to give us a buck." which is way more then what other companies do, [/QUOTE]
This...really isn't way more than what other companies do, at least in terms of actually giving open permission and ad revenue. Maybe many years ago when gaming on YouTube was just starting to take off (like when LA Noire came out in 2010) it was somewhat weird, but now a days there are many companies that give straight up permission and openly promote gaming YouTubers. [URL="https://support.rockstargames.com/hc/en-us/articles/200153756-Policy-on-posting-copyrighted-Rockstar-Games-material"] Even Rockstar gave open permission for people to post GTA 5 Let's Plays[/URL]. Many policies are out of date or by companies that are out of touch with the community and that's why there's always such a large outcry when this stuff happens. There's a large majority of folks who like gaming videos and the only people that support this stuff are the people who A) already openly bash LPers and/or B) people that this doesn't affect at all.
I don't know why so many people are willing to just be like "take it with a smile you greedy criminal kids, at least they're giving you something" as if that's a valid reason to shut up and take it, especially when it legitimately affects livelihoods. Honestly, I'd rather they go all in with the revenue taking stuff or just give 100% permission, because when they do something like this...the already gray area of YouTube suddenly becomes a lot more ambiguous and risky than it needs to be. Its like a poor attempt at damage control since obviously if they just take 100% of the revenue like they wanted to, the amount of videos goes down and the amount of people pissed goes massively up, but if they do this maybe some people will still make a bunch of videos and begrudgingly get them a lot more money...and unfortunately they're right.
[QUOTE=Sift;44928870]
when LPers have to trick the search engine to avoid being found then maybe they aren't in the right? (DSP, among others for example would call LA Noire "Detective game by rockstar" or "Dicks with Guns." or whatever came to mind to avoid being found)[/QUOTE]
This is the first time I've ever heard of anyone doing that.
[thumb]http://i.gyazo.com/1e4f4bbb3cb8e71de74a968c6d4106eb.png[/thumb]
Plenty of LPs are just straight up the game name. Hell, I even did a Red Dead Redemption LP and it just was titled "Let's Play Red Dead Redemption." Of course some LPs would do stuff like remove all the music or cut out all of the cutscenes, but that was [B][I]4 years ago
[/I][/B] so times have really changed.
[QUOTE=Sift;44928870]
LPers have no grounds to stand on if they didn't get the official okay to do it, they can cry and strawman all they want- this isn't about free advertising or anything but them breaking the rules and sticking their hand in the cookie jar only to throw a tantrum when their hand gets slapped. This was a volatile "job" in the first place, if it crumbles in any way it's because it wasn't very well thought out.
[/QUOTE]
While everything they're doing is legal, which I acknowledged earlier, in my (heavily biased) opinion its still a morally and logistical downfall. Its a company that can stop making a profit for decades and [I]still[/I] be fine that [I][B]really[/B][/I] doesn't need extra sources of income using a pretty much free labor force vs singular individuals in the world who make a living off of pretty much showing thousands to millions of people that "Hey this game is fun!" who still have to pay for their hardware, their games, their living expenses, and their sound state of minds. Choice is just really obvious to me, but hey I'm just a guy this stuff can affect.
Also, do you really think LPs would be so big if it was literally completely illegal? That's absurd and ignorant. There's a reason why gaming networks like Machinima and Polaris exist, they handle the middle man legal shenanigans with YouTube and game companies for a cut of the profit and boom, you have partnered gaming channels. There's so much more to this industry than just a bunch of kids who want money, and constantly comparing LPers to criminals and children rather (than mostly) adults with real lives is despicably, and ignorantly, apathetic, along with being far more of a logical fallacy than any LPer appealing to morality and debating [I][B]their income[/B][/I] could ever churn out. This isn't as simple as sarcastically belittling every attempt at actual debate.
Being upset about money going to a company that doesn't need it rather than average joe me or my peers seems to be the most adult thing I can do in this world. I'll never smile at anything that is only bad for myself and my peers, and why should I? Let's Plays and gaming videos aren't new any more, people have vested thousands of dollars and hours into putting outs thousands of videos that entertain millions of people, so assuming that its only for kids with a mic is ignorant. Its a viable job, and its acknowledged by so many gaming companies now a days that its glaringly obvious how old minded any attempts to cut into it for a profit really is. You can call LPers (and or other types of game video makers) greedy or entitled, but I think we have legitimate points and enough of a legitimate effect on the industry to say "Hey, please don't do that thing that would screw me over purely for your profit."
[QUOTE=Sift;44928870]
Getting pissy at Mario Kart 8 just because you can't make money off it or as much money as usual is childish as all hell too by the way.[/QUOTE]
I was just making an amusing observation for that dude, you can't tell me its a coincidence that just before a game comes out that features uploading to YouTube, they reinforce a policy that would let them profit off of the thousands to millions of people that'd be using it. Hell, out of all things in this debate, its the only thing I agree with them doing. They should get a cut of the profit if you use their systems to set up a cool video and even upload it to YouTube, especially if its from unpartnered YouTubers anyways, since that's understandable and actually beneficial to both parties (an unpartnered YouTuber would get 0% of anything otherwise). I just feel at the point that a person is recording the console live with an expensive capture card, providing (subjectively) entertaining commentary with an expensive mic, rendering/editing it with expensive hardware, uploading it through their own internet, and getting it monetized because they were already partnered...they deserve more than 10%-20% of the cut. Especially for a game like Mario Kart, since its not exactly a story driven game with amazing cutscenes and voice acting.
[QUOTE=Sift;44930076]It's hard to believe some people saying "get a real job" aren't just saying it to be mean, but instead because this "job" is extremely volatile and small things like that can wind up fucking you up pretty hardcore.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=gokiyono;44930173]The problem with basing your income off of Youtube is that there aren't really any guarantees for income.
In fact, you could end up loosing everything and even more.[/QUOTE]
Personally, YouTube is one of the safest jobs there can be (as long as you're entertaining and can reach high sub numbers) since running a YouTube channel is only as volatile as devs and publishers can make it. If you make millions of views a month, its not going to suddenly spike down unless you stop putting up videos completely, or piss off your subs by doing something silly like making a controversial opinion video that they don't agree with. Of course, I put out hundreds of videos a month and 8-16 videos a day so I wouldn't know what its like for someone who only does singular bursts of content (like reviewers or montage makers).
At the very least, in my experience, its been far more viable (and enjoyable) of a job choice than quitting and going to work at a fast food restaurant just because someone said I should (and plenty of people have). Things like the sudden copyright spikes of December or revenue blocking opportunities of Nintendo are the only types of big threat to suddenly jam up things, and since those scenarios are so few and far between now a days, they stand out enough to be generally fixed in a certain amount of time. And if they don't get "fixed" its generally as simple as saying "Okay, I won't do videos from that company I guess."
Okay, I'm done. :words:
[QUOTE=V12US;44930193]I disagree wholeheartedly with the notion that Let's Play youtubers should pay companies for playing their games online.
The game is not the focus, the youtuber is the focus. People watch these videos because they enjoy the personality that is playing them. Whether it be people that enjoy watching Pewdipie, the Yogscast, Jesse Cox or one of the thousands of other popular Let's Players. It doesn't really matter. People watch them do zany stuff, and it doesn't really matter if they do it in a Valve, Nintendo, Blizzard or some indie game.
Furthermore, where does this stop? It's all of youtube, not just Let's Players. Will youtube reviewers have to pay Nintendo to review the game (that they already paid for, mind you)? Will people have to pay Nintendo to play their games on twitch.tv (which also belongs to youtube, now) either casually or in tournaments. And why stop at videos? Will artists and fiction writers have to pay Nintendo when they write some fanfic in the Metroid universe or draw a picture of Mario? Will forums eventually receive cease & desist letters for having in depth discussions about a Nintendo game?
This is a scary fucking slippery slope, and what's even scarier is that people don't seem to understand it or care. Companies [b]should not[/b] have a say in how you are allowed to enjoy a product that you bought. The product is [b]yours[/b]. You should not be forced to pay a subscription if you aren't receiving any service. If anything, you are providing [i]them[/i] a service by keeping their product relevant and in the public eye. It's free marketing.[/QUOTE]
Difference between a reviewer and a LP is night and day. Company (We'll say Nintendo) gives IGN or whoever a early copy of the game and gives it to them for the sole reason to review it. Joe Shmoe LPer went to walmart and bought it. The company didn't give them permission or even ask them. They don't know that persons credentials they don't know anything about this guy. It's fair to say "hey stop that" to them.
Also they don't tell you how to enjoy the product, they tell you that if your going to make money off it then you have to pay them. That's it. If you don't upload it or record it or try to whore yourself over it guess how many shits they give about you. The answer is none, it's only if you're going into it soley to make a quick buck.
Also it's not transformative because the inbetween may be a bit different, but the game itself is the exact same, they won't get exclusive levels or a exclusive ending or anything to them. Just because the player died to a goomba in mario doesn't mean that he's radically changed the game in a meaningful way.
The strawman of "They'll come after fanfics" is also paper then as those people aren't trying to sell them for money (usually anyway) AND the fact Fanfics aren't using things that they themselves sunk money into. It's a completely original work where, once again, dying to a enemy or failing a track in mario kart doesn't suddenly mean it's your own ~exclusive~ game.
LPers are in the wrong to get mad at this as it's well within Nintendo's rights and no matter how hard you strawman and give bad analogies that won't change it. LPers were never given permission, they don't have the right to fight and leech off people who don't want it.
[editline]28th May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=GaLm;44930956]I wasn't talking about the content ID match shenanigans that happened in December, I was talking about [I]last May[/I] when Nintendo started hitting people with copyrights so they could get 100% of the revenue. This is what I'm referring to:
[thumb]http://i.gyazo.com/78f2ce01fa55e5fb6c5e8e696a5c9f01.png[/thumb]
[thumb]http://i.gyazo.com/ae123e097f7cb1ccb7b23e89da4423af.png[/thumb] (my posts in that thread, which...are still sadly relevant)
[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1270893[/url]
[url]http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/16/nintendo-enforces-copyright-on-youtube-lets-plays[/url]
[sp]Things don't generally change around here.[/sp]
This...really isn't way more than what other companies do, at least in terms of actually giving open permission and ad revenue. Maybe many years ago when gaming on YouTube was just starting to take off (like when LA Noire came out in 2010) it was somewhat weird, but now a days there are many companies that give straight up permission and openly promote gaming YouTubers. [URL="https://support.rockstargames.com/hc/en-us/articles/200153756-Policy-on-posting-copyrighted-Rockstar-Games-material"] Even Rockstar gave open permission for people to post GTA 5 Let's Plays[/URL]. Many policies are out of date or by companies that are out of touch with the community and that's why there's always such a large outcry when this stuff happens. There's a large majority of folks who like gaming videos and the only people that support this stuff are the people who A) already openly bash LPers and/or B) people that this doesn't affect at all.
I don't know why so many people are willing to just be like "take it with a smile you greedy criminal kids, at least they're giving you something" as if that's a valid reason to shut up and take it, especially when it legitimately affects livelihoods. Honestly, I'd rather they go all in with the revenue taking stuff or just give 100% permission, because when they do something like this...the already gray area of YouTube suddenly becomes a lot more ambiguous and risky than it needs to be. Its like a poor attempt at damage control since obviously if they just take 100% of the revenue like they wanted to, the amount of videos goes down and the amount of people pissed goes massively up, but if they do this maybe some people will still make a bunch of videos and begrudgingly get them a lot more money...and unfortunately they're right.
This is the first time I've ever heard of anyone doing that.
[thumb]http://i.gyazo.com/1e4f4bbb3cb8e71de74a968c6d4106eb.png[/thumb]
Plenty of LPs are just straight up the game name. Hell, I even did a Red Dead Redemption LP and it just was titled "Let's Play Red Dead Redemption." Of course some LPs would do stuff like remove all the music or cut out all of the cutscenes, but that was [B][I]4 years ago
[/I][/B] so times have really changed.
While everything they're doing is legal, which I acknowledged earlier, in my (heavily biased) opinion its still a morally and logistical downfall. Its a company that can stop making a profit for decades and [I]still[/I] be fine that [I][B]really[/B][/I] doesn't need extra sources of income using a pretty much free labor force vs singular individuals in the world who make a living off of pretty much showing thousands to millions of people that "Hey this game is fun!" who still have to pay for their hardware, their games, their living expenses, and their sound state of minds. Choice is just really obvious to me, but hey I'm just a guy this stuff can affect.
Also, do you really think LPs would be so big if it was literally completely illegal? That's absurd and ignorant. There's a reason why gaming networks like Machinima and Polaris exist, they handle the middle man legal shenanigans with YouTube and game companies for a cut of the profit and boom, you have partnered gaming channels. There's so much more to this industry than just a bunch of kids who want money, and constantly comparing LPers to criminals and children rather (than mostly) adults with real lives is despicably, and ignorantly, apathetic, along with being far more of a logical fallacy than any LPer appealing to morality and debating [I][B]their income[/B][/I] could ever churn out. This isn't as simple as sarcastically belittling every attempt at actual debate.
Being upset about money going to a company that doesn't need it rather than average joe me or my peers seems to be the most adult thing I can do in this world. I'll never smile at anything that is only bad for myself and my peers, and why should I? Let's Plays and gaming videos aren't new any more, people have vested thousands of dollars and hours into putting outs thousands of videos that entertain millions of people, so assuming that its only for kids with a mic is ignorant. Its a viable job, and its acknowledged by so many gaming companies now a days that its glaringly obvious how old minded any attempts to cut into it for a profit really is. You can call LPers (and or other types of game video makers) greedy or entitled, but I think we have legitimate points and enough of a legitimate effect on the industry to say "Hey, please don't do that thing that would screw me over purely for your profit."
I was just making an amusing observation for that dude, you can't tell me its a coincidence that just before a game comes out that features uploading to YouTube, they reinforce a policy that would let them profit off of the thousands to millions of people that'd be using it. Hell, out of all things in this debate, its the only thing I agree with them doing. They should get a cut of the profit if you use their systems to set up a cool video and even upload it to YouTube, especially if its from unpartnered YouTubers anyways, since that's understandable and actually beneficial to both parties (an unpartnered YouTuber would get 0% of anything otherwise). I just feel at the point that a person is recording the console live with an expensive capture card, providing (subjectively) entertaining commentary with an expensive mic, rendering/editing it with expensive hardware, uploading it through their own internet, and getting it monetized because they were already partnered...they deserve more than 10%-20% of the cut. Especially for a game like Mario Kart, since its not exactly a story driven game with amazing cutscenes and voice acting.
Personally, YouTube is one of the safest jobs there can be (as long as you're entertaining and can reach high sub numbers) since running a YouTube channel is only as volatile as devs and publishers can make it. If you make millions of views a month, its not going to suddenly spike down unless you stop putting up videos completely, or piss off your subs by doing something silly like making a controversial opinion video that they don't agree with. Of course, I put out hundreds of videos a month and 8-16 videos a day so I wouldn't know what its like for someone who only does singular bursts of content (like reviewers or montage makers).
At the very least, in my experience, its been far more viable (and enjoyable) of a job choice than quitting and going to work at a fast food restaurant just because someone said I should (and plenty of people have). Things like the sudden copyright spikes of December or revenue blocking opportunities of Nintendo are the only types of big threat to suddenly jam up things, and since those scenarios are so few and far between now a days, they stand out enough to be generally fixed in a certain amount of time. And if they don't get "fixed" its generally as simple as saying "Okay, I won't do videos from that company I guess."
Okay, I'm done. :words:[/QUOTE]
Might be less tidy but first point about LA Noir was when it first came out Rockstar put a gag on it saying "don't upload any of the cutscenes or later parts of the story. Don't." and put a time lock on it saying for the first 4 months or so it's against the rules as the game wasn't out worldwide and they didn't want others to be spoiled which is fair as it's a story driven game. DSP and others ignored this and named it totally random things to avoid it- then when the 4 months were up changed them all to the proper titles. If you want proof start up video 1 of his playthrough and he's laughing and yukkin it up about getting past the policy because he's [i]clever[/i]
Let's plays weren't always about getting the golden youtube button as well, 2006 when Slowbeef played Rise of the Triad or The Immortal whatever the hell game it was that started the whole hobby he did it for... (pause for dramatic effect)
[b]Fun![/b] it was a hobby. He held down a real job (using the term losely) and in his spare time treated it as "imagine commentary on a game that you didn't make just for the sake of being amusing." This caught on at Something Awful and grew from there. Soon it was filled with machinima and other things and it was great- people were hired to make funny videos by a company and that was perfectly fine. It was a company that had permission and it extended to it's employees.
Youtube started the partnership program and said hey if you get a bunch of views and qualify then sure we'll pay you a little- something that wasn't exclusive to just video games, mind, and people then took that as "this is no longer about fun- this is about money. I'm only playing this for money. I hate this shitty game give me money" which reflects badly on the game itself, (in fact DSP flat out said that word for word on his Dark Souls playthrough). People started slapping on "CHECK OUT MY SKYRIM VIDEOS" after a run through of a mario level which isn't advertising the game, it's advertising themselves which is unfair to the company that owns the IP or properties. Youtube itself has rules stating "you need permission. YOU HAVE TO HAVE PERMISSION." But people ignored it anyway because money money money.
Nintendo is saying "Okay, 100% is to much but we do want part of it" which IS better then 100%, it is better them flat out getting your account banned, and it is better then making you slink about and try to be sneaky with certain games. This is why it's a volatile job and why it isn't safe- because if a company says "Stop it" you [B]HAVE[/b] to. You can try taking them to court but you'd lose. You can stomp your feet but you won't get your way because they made the IP, it's their properties.
I think it was DSP, but I remember when Nintendo originally said 100% of it goes to us there was a video speaking out against it saying "It's like stealing from chuggaconroy and nintendocaprisun! It's hurting THEM!" in which the two in a podcast replied. "Who the fuck cares, we're doing this for fun and as a hobby." Which is what it should be, if you can game the system like PewDiePie then, low opinion of him aside, good for you! You did it! But acting like the people who [i]made[/i] the game your trying to profit from owe you something? That's fucked up. If Nintendo or Sony or whoever suddenly stopped making games guess who suddenly doesn't have that "job" they throw around. Saying "we shouldn't have to bend over and take it" is crass, but actually you kinda do. If they stopped or cut off games in the west then guess what, your shit out of luck and you chased off the golden goose so to say.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;44923902]You can't use anything to make money because everything was created by someone else.[/QUOTE]
I once made a poo
[QUOTE=Sift;44931008]-snipped for lenght-[/QUOTE]
Saying Let's Players are bad because of DSP is like saying Germany is bad because of Godwin. Wait, I mean Hitler.
[QUOTE=lope;44931292]I once made a poo[/QUOTE]
Merely your own interpretation of what essentially belongs to food companies.
But as long as you don't make videos of it and post it on youtube, you'll be alright.
[QUOTE=Sift;44930076]It's hard to believe some people saying "get a real job" aren't just saying it to be mean, but instead because this "job" is extremely volatile and small things like that can wind up fucking you up pretty hardcore.
Then again you can be a total scumbag and try emotionally manipulate your fans like DSP or Angry Joe or something.[/QUOTE]
Angry joe's reviews are covered under fair use actually I think. I could be wrong though.
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;44923866]On Wii U? He most certainly does.
But the LP IS your content. The game is merely the stage.[/QUOTE]
You still gotta pay for the stage when filming a movie, your analogy is working against your views.
[QUOTE=Technopath;44931383]You still gotta pay for the stage when filming a movie, your analogy is working against your views.[/QUOTE]
Are you implying these people are pirating their games?
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;44924959]And those "precious cents" are chump change to Nintendo but they're extremely valuable to lets players trying to make enough money to justify continuing to spend time and effort on their content.
[/QUOTE]
Probably not chump change for long, since Nintendo keeps making poor decisions about almost everything...
[QUOTE=Sift;44931008]
Might be less tidy but first point about LA Noir was when it first came out Rockstar put a gag on it saying "don't upload any of the cutscenes or later parts of the story. Don't." and put a time lock on it saying for the first 4 months or so it's against the rules as the game wasn't out worldwide and they didn't want others to be spoiled which is fair as it's a story driven game. DSP and others ignored this and named it totally random things to avoid it- then when the 4 months were up changed them all to the proper titles. If you want proof start up video 1 of his playthrough and he's laughing and yukkin it up about getting past the policy because he's [i]clever[/i][/QUOTE]
Kay. Quick searches don't show four years of difference (and I don't make a habit of watching DSP) but still, while there's no denying that YouTube was a lot rockier grounds back around 2007-2011, times have gotten a lot better and the fact that Rockstar has an official Let's Play policy shows that dramatically. Also, respectable LPers listen to embargoes because those are serious deals that we get told about many times in advance.
[QUOTE=Sift;44931008]
Let's plays weren't always about getting the golden youtube button as well, 2006 when Slowbeef played Rise of the Triad or The Immortal whatever the hell game it was that started the whole hobby he did it for... (pause for dramatic effect)
[b]Fun![/b] it was a hobby. He held down a real job (using the term losely) and in his spare time treated it as "imagine commentary on a game that you didn't make just for the sake of being amusing." This caught on at Something Awful and grew from there. Soon it was filled with machinima and other things and it was great- people were hired to make funny videos by a company and that was perfectly fine. It was a company that had permission and it extended to it's employees.
[/QUOTE]
You...are making a massive assumption that I, as a Let's Player, don't know about the origin of Let's Plays, and that everybody only started doing it for the money. I've been doing LPs for 5 years, long before Machinima started actually partnering people's individual channels, and out of those 5 years, I've only been partnered for the last 2. That means I started doing LPs for (pause for dramatic effect) [B]Fun![/B] I saw some of the original Let's Plays and thought to myself "I'd like to be able to make entertaining videos like that!" so I, as a young teen with a meh computer and mic, set out to try. And it was [B]fun[/B], and it only became better as I started getting thousands of subs over the years, putting out more videos at faster paces, and got slightly better at commentary. (Also puberty was kind of cool.)
Funnily enough, I was just like a lot of people in this thread, annoyed that someone would get paid for doing Let's Plays, especially since I had [I]been[/I] doing Let's Plays. I felt that everyone on YouTube should just put out videos only for fun, that Let's Plays shouldn't be tattered by people "selling out." And then magical things happened, like meeting and actually talking to the people I was just immediately imagining as irredeemable money whores. I learned their perspective, what they were using the money for (for example, many of them were using it, and still are using it, to pay through college. Even Chugga has said at some point that he's saving up for that.), then I graduated and realized that I too would be in need of money. I realized that in an adult world, just surviving costs a lot of money...and you don't get money just for existing, at least not for most people. Its easy to say "Get a job!" but...I had the opportunity to make a hobby I really enjoyed, and had lots of people who enjoyed me enjoying it, into a hobby that also served as a source of income, and I sure as hell don't regret it.
Honestly, having money only improves the quality of a good channel. Suddenly you can go from a shitty $20 mic to a good $100 mic, and then (far later down the line) to a great $400 mic set up. You can afford upgrading your computer when you need to rather than long down the line, you can buy games you really want on release rather than waiting for the $5 Steam sales (though who hates Steam sales anyways), you can keep yourself fed while putting out large amounts of content that thousands of people enjoy, all in a self-contained circle of income. You put in money, time, effort, and you get rewarded with money, fun, and appreciation to keep on doing so.
Now, yes, you can do a lot of those with a different job as well..and a majority of YouTubers did start their channels while working, and a lot of YouTubers maintain huge channels even with a job (like Frankieonpc), but if you had the opportunity why would you willingly choose against it? College isn't cheap, separate jobs can be energy sapping along with low paying, and honestly, squandering a really great opportunity like I had would've been stupid. Hell, I could've made more money working at McDonalds at half of the minimum wage for all of these years than what I've made while partnered yet here I am, choosing something I enjoy more than just straight up dosh. Not that dosh is inherently evil anyways, oh no someone can afford stuff, how dare they.
Sometimes all I hear is the the outdated sell-out pride argument, where you get kudo points because you'd rather suffer than get money from something you actually enjoy, which really doesn't make sense to me in a world where you have to pay bills too. With that said, there are plenty of people out there who are in it only for the money, and people find them entertaining, but just like in any other job there are also people who really genuinely enjoy what they do [I]along[/I] with the money. Honestly, if I could go through life without needing money, I'd still be doing Let's Plays because (pause for dramatic effect) [B]I started doing LPs for fun, and [I]still have fun[/I] doing LPs to this day.[/B]
I think I missed a couple of points there but yeah, don't just assume everyone is evil and mega greedy like I use to, its an archaic form of thinking, at least to me. Just look at Chuggaconroy, an LPer you keep praising quite a lot (for good reason, he makes some of the most informative and highest quality LPs out there), and remember he runs ads just like the rest of us do. If at any point you thought "But he deserv-" remember that you've been saying [B]nobody[/B] does.
[QUOTE=Sift;44931008]
Youtube started the partnership program and said hey if you get a bunch of views and qualify then sure we'll pay you a little- something that wasn't exclusive to just video games, mind, and people then took that as "this is no longer about fun- this is about money. I'm only playing this for money. I hate this shitty game give me money" which reflects badly on the game itself, (in fact DSP flat out said that word for word on his Dark Souls playthrough). People started slapping on "CHECK OUT MY SKYRIM VIDEOS" after a run through of a mario level which isn't advertising the game, it's advertising themselves which is unfair to the company that owns the IP or properties. [/QUOTE]
Alright man, your grasp of Let's Plays seems to be really, [B]REALLY[/B] centered on DSP and bottom of the barrel LPs. I'm sorry he and the others scarred you so badly, but damn dude. DSP literally recorded his screen with a camera for many years, even when he started getting big, and that's what you think most of us who actually take this seriously do? That's a really big no. Myself, and nearly everyone I personally know, want to put out good to great quality videos. We don't like doing videos of games we don't enjoy, we don't sit there belching away in a low quality stream ignoring every kind of advice ever given, and we all spend hours editing our videos how we want them. Point is, people like DSP, who are pretty much living jokes making bank, are not a reflection of other Let's Players.
Moving on, advertising your own videos...on your own channel...is not a bad thing at all. Out of all things you've said so far, that's [I][B]really[/B][/I] grasping for straws. A company isn't going to lose money because at the end of a 10-30 minutes video a guy goes "Hey, I've also done videos on this game!" or "Hey, check out my friend's channel!" The company doesn't own the channel, they don't own the person's voice, they don't own their personalities, at the very least a person is allowed to say whatever they want in their own videos.
Also, on your remarks about the YouTube partnership program, look below:
[QUOTE=Sift;44931008]Youtube itself has rules stating "you need permission. YOU HAVE TO HAVE PERMISSION." But people ignored it anyway because money money money.
[/QUOTE]
Here are 2 words to remember forever: Gaming. Networks. YouTube is one of the most knee jerk copyright banning sites in existence, and, again, do you really think that they would just let hundreds of thousands of illegal videos slip by while accumulating hundreds of millions of views? Do you really think that YouTube would just let anyone run ads on videos during some of their more virulent years? Your answer should be no, because you know what kept things running? Gaming. Networks. They didn't just pop up out of nowhere with access to YouTube's partnering feature, and they didn't start massively partnering people until mid 2012...so rather than repeating myself completely again, here you go:
[thumb]http://i.gyazo.com/fe3ee43cf16a81f1bfb48d6b6e075bad.png[/thumb]
Read this, please. I've been over this every single time someone screams "YOU DON'T HAVE PERMISSION!" while ignoring the fact that there's more to being partnered than going "Aight, lets rake in some dough."
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Nintendo is saying "Okay, 100% is to much but we do want part of it" which IS better then 100%, it is better them flat out getting your account banned, and it is better then making you slink about and try to be sneaky with certain games. This is why it's a volatile job and why it isn't safe- because if a company says "Stop it" you [B]HAVE[/b] to. You can try taking them to court but you'd lose. You can stomp your feet but you won't get your way because they made the IP, it's their properties.
[/QUOTE]
On paper, to someone who's ignorant about all of this, it might seem like its better to get 50% rather than 0%. And your basic math skills are correct, it is better to get 50% rather than 0%...until you actually think of the context and remember that it the 100% on everything...would then get split up between a bunch of different people. So, as I explained earlier, you're going from about 70%-80% revenue to...10%-20% revenue. At that point, why even bother having it get split up while also risking the other things this could bring? I'd rather get $0 because of a 100% all in all system than get a light compensation compromise-only-because-they-got-yelled-at-last-time prize.
Also, if it goes through, we reenter the dangerous territory of how any of that would be calculated by the scary ass YouTube claim system. Who knows what will happen if they try to pass the system and it just ends up automatically striking every video ever, with the added potential of [B]getting channels banned[/B]. Alongside that, there's a big amount of ambiguity because they just randomly want to shotgun blast YouTubers without a lot of specifics. Am I exempt because of my network? What is considered eligible for 50% and what is just completely not allowed? What's going to get me hit by a strike vs...whatever your new seemingly self-asserted policy would be called? Etc etc etc. Its so unnecessary to have this kind of shit in a day and age where a now majority of game companies just go "You can do Let's Plays and monetize them, go for it :D!" and even go so far to fly out YouTubers for events or fling their games for free at them.
Every time something like this happens, its generally been...old Japanese companies. Sega, Nintendo, and Sony have these bursts of old minded business practices while simultaneously trying to be like "Guys! We're modern and love sharing and fun and YouTube too!" So, just like last year, it seems like this isn't even a company wide decision. Kinda like TotalBiscuit said, this is pretty much just taxing YouTubers with nicer wording. Also no one is gonna take them to court, I don't even know why you'd think that. I know my place on the rungs, and I assume anyone worth their contract does to.
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I think it was DSP, but I remember when Nintendo originally said 100% of it goes to us there was a video speaking out against it saying "It's like stealing from chuggaconroy and nintendocaprisun! It's hurting THEM!" in which the two in a podcast replied. "Who the fuck cares, we're doing this for fun and as a hobby."[/QUOTE]
Not trying to shit on Chugga, but at the point that you're over 500 million collective views (most of which I'm just gonna assume are monetized)...of course you wouldn't care, you already made the fuckloads of money. I don't know what he does with his money, but I assume a large portion of it he keeps...and...well...people could retire, multiple times, with what he theoretically has earned. Big YouTubers who get more views on their videos than the population of a lot of cities aren't going to be massively affected by this, its pretty much just the middle and low ground guys who would and are going to be screwed.
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Which is what it should be, if you can game the system
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[QUOTE=Sift;44931008]
what it should be
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[QUOTE=Sift;44931008]
game the system
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[B]
audible groan[/B]
[QUOTE=Sift;44931008]
Saying "we shouldn't have to bend over and take it" is crass, but actually you kinda do.
[/QUOTE]
I don't get your point on this, are you so against Let's Players that you pretty much tell them they should have no other choice but to take it without a word? That's really stupid, I have just as much of a right to vocally disapprove of a company's decisions that have an actual affect on me and my peers as you do to constantly and ignorantly belittle Let's Players. It is a stupid decision in many, [B]many[/B] ways. This is an industry where now a days 80%-90% of companies of understand YouTube as largely beneficial to both parties, the 10%-20% that can't grasp that are rightfully blasted by bad PR for a reason. Without people getting angered by legitimate things and being vocal about it, companies would be free to just throw whatever they want under the guise of "Well, its legal for us to do so...we brought the lube :)" Dumb decisions get made by game companies all the time, massive (and rightful) backlashes are like the only thing a good number of them seem to understand.
Now, you keep ignoring this, but [B]I know[/B] its mostly within their legal right to do what they want. [I]I said that last year too[/I]. But, my point, is that its a dick move on their part. I don't care if you think every LPer is basically DSP and you think that nobody deserves money ever, the reality of the situation is more than what you like or don't like. The reality of the situation is that people do make money off of this...and have made money off of this [I]legally[/I] for years. (In case you forgot. Gaming. Network. [I]Gaming[/I]. Network. Gaming. [I]Network[/I].) The reality of the situation is that some people are going to take big hits, there's no moral reason why, and the most fucks some people give are "Good riddance."
[QUOTE=Sift;44931008]
If Nintendo or Sony or whoever suddenly stopped making games guess who suddenly doesn't have that "job" they throw around.
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[QUOTE=Sift;44931008]
If they stopped or cut off games in the west then guess what, your shit out of luck and you chased off the golden goose so to say.[/QUOTE]
I...don't care? Again, [URL="http://www.gamesradar.com/nintendo-doomed-not-likely-just-take-look-how-much-money-its-got-bank/"]Nintendo can literally make $0 a year for decades and still be fine.[/URL] If I made $0 for decades, I'd be probably be dead. So, again, these decisions are logistically and morally unnecessary in the grand scheme of things...and that's unacceptably illogical.
Beyond that, we can just play other games, y'know, from the majority of devs who have completely embraced the Let's Playing and gaming video communities? Nintendo is doing stupid decisions for marginal gains in an age where this knowledge can be spread pretty much anywhere and everywhere that cares, but plenty of other people take note and don't make the same mistakes so I'm happy about that. Nintendo isn't a golden goose to me, I haven't played a Nintendo title since before I even started doing LPs, I'm just making a continuous note that I think its a really bad move on their part.
Alright, I did it again :words: I'm gonna end off here.
I wonder how people would be reacting if a company other than nintendo did this. How about Mmorpg companies, etc?
It's interesting how in almost every other situation, Facepunch takes the usual left wing libertarian opinion of individual rights being more important than corporate rights, but whenever Lets Plays are brought up suddenly not only are corporations allowed to take all of the advertising money from let's players that are playing their games, but they are SO in the right that let's players are "childish" for complaining about it, and they should "get a real job", and anyone who disagrees gets dumb ratings. Whenever this topic is brought up I see numerous posts using language like "make a quick buck" and "easy money" and "game the system" and other bullshit like that, and calling let's players "greedy" and insisting that the ones that make money are only doing it for the cash and so they don't deserve it, and it just reeks of jealousy and spite. It saddens me that people will let their opinions be directed by such hateful emotions.
I left this topic for a while, while I read more on it and I actually am beginning to see this as a fair thing. It's not black and white, but if you want full monetization, stop using Nintendo content. This is their choice and you can vote by switching your content. If you really don't like it then protest the claims.
Thousands of other companies would love for you to play their games on video. Nintendo has been behind the curve in some respects in terms of community from what I've picked up over the years. So if anything this is a step in the right direction. I don't do Nintendo content so I have nothing to lose in this scenario. But if anything I don't want to be seen as someone who just instant poopoo's a companies plans. My reaction earlier was stupid and childish.
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