Man who killed math teacher assaults a female prison guard after following her into bathroom
54 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Antlerp;45359098]Some suggest we rehabilitate them, others suggest we just execute him. I offer a third way:
we send him to an African village to live among the local indigenous peoples[/QUOTE]
Is this a joke? He'd try to rape and kill them too.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;45358964]Who deserves to decide who deserves a second chance?[/QUOTE]
Man who play god think is god?
[QUOTE=Complifused;45357119]I really don't understand the whole rehabilitation circlejerk, some people don't deserve a second chance.[/QUOTE]
Understanding that rehabilitation just sometimes can't be done is important, it's not a miracle treatment that will turn every full blown psychopath into a functioning member of society. But saying "some people don't deserve a second chance" is very ignorant, if something can be fixed why throw it away?
[QUOTE=supersoldier58;45359377]Understanding that rehabilitation just sometimes can't be done is important, it's not a miracle treatment that will turn every full blown psychopath into a functioning member of society. But saying "some people don't deserve a second chance" is very ignorant, if something can be fixed why throw it away?[/QUOTE]
And we're not talking about a second chance anymore guys.
He raped and killed a math teacher and THEN, after he committed murder, he tried to attack and most likely kill another person.
Thinking that rehabilitation is a way that will actually help him is a very bold shot.
It MIGHT do, with a microscopic chance, but I don't think it would.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;45357160]because punitive justice is pointless and all it does is stoke the bloodlust of people who are emotionally-comprimised or irrational[/QUOTE]
Which is why in the case of people who are fucking nuts way past the point of no return the only thing left to do is tie them to a pole in the high security section of an asylum and leave them there until they die.
There comes a point where people are just plain unfit for life in any kind of society and all that's left outside of outright shooting them in the head is to put them in a place where they can't harm anyone.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45357743]Can't say for sure if he is beyond help and in any case at least try and find out what influenced him
Was he abused as a kid?
Is part of his brain messed up?
Was he on drugs?
Then measures could be taken to stop it ever happening again instead of playing wack-a-mole with murderers.[/QUOTE]
and who are you to say that he's curable?
if he was abused as a kid- that's a lot of therapy and there's no guarantee he'll accept it.
if a part of his brain is messed up- there's very little that can be done to change it.
if he was on drugs- do you think he'll stop doing them if he's free just because "the man" said so?
you're telling me that this kid is more deserving of tens of thousands of dollars then somewhere where it could be beneficial? why does he deserve a third chance? this whole "ALL LIFE IS SACRED SAVE THE CHILDREN!" shit is getting out of hand and is very vague. all i see in threads are these are "rehabilitation bla bla" and never any concrete ideas.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;45357160]because punitive justice is pointless and all it does is stoke the bloodlust of people who are emotionally-comprimised or irrational[/QUOTE]
Some people are so far gone there isn't any helping them, and it would honestly be far cheaper to permanently lock them up rather than spend countless man hours and funds to rehabilitate them, when more often than not it will not work.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45359758]Which is why in the case of people who are fucking nuts way past the point of no return the only thing left to do is tie them to a pole in the high security section of an asylum and leave them there until they die.
There comes a point where people are just plain unfit for life in any kind of society and all that's left outside of outright shooting them in the head is to put them in a place where they can't harm anyone.[/QUOTE]
The asylum is the best option all around in such cases, because while the person is still isolated, at least specialists are working on determining if he could be helped at all. If not, nothing's lost. If yes, then something still can be salvaged to be at least non-destructive member of society. Win-win.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45357743]Can't say for sure if he is beyond help and in any case at least try and find out what influenced him
Was he abused as a kid?
Is part of his brain messed up?
Was he on drugs?
Then measures could be taken to stop it ever happening again instead of playing wack-a-mole with murderers.[/QUOTE]
some people are born psychopaths, they just don't see people as people, its sort of how like autistic people can't communicate the same way most people can
[editline]11th July 2014[/editline]
ya we can study him and figure out why he is like this, but it should be done from a very secure place under guard
[QUOTE=supersoldier58;45359377]Understanding that rehabilitation just sometimes can't be done is important, it's not a miracle treatment that will turn every full blown psychopath into a functioning member of society. But saying "some people don't deserve a second chance" is very ignorant, if something can be fixed why throw it away?[/QUOTE]
Priority number one is public safety. That's why we have a criminal justice system in the first place, it sure isn't there because of our desire to rehab people.
Once we have a person in custody, the question is what to do with them. [i]That[/i] is when a consideration like rehab enters the picture.
I think that's why many of us feel that once a person has proven to be a violent offender multiple times, we are past looking at rehab as a priority. Now it's just about protecting ourselves from this guy.
I think USA should fix their violent prisons before they are gonna be talking about doing any rehablitation
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;45360442]Some people are so far gone there isn't any helping them, and it would honestly be far cheaper to permanently lock them up rather than spend countless man hours and funds to rehabilitate them, when more often than not it will not work.[/QUOTE]
are you the one to make that call? is this even true? is there some sort of study or something done by psychologists that has proved that some people just can't be helped because they're too 'far gone' ? (and i don't think someone who is 15 years old really qualifies for too far gone tbh)
[quote]At 15 years old I highly doubt the kid is looking to change any time soon[/quote]
At 15 years old isn't mental change biologically inevitable
To be fair, math fucking sucks.
[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;45362847]To be fair, math fucking sucks.[/QUOTE]
I really don't get this mindset, especially in elementary/middle school and a nice chunk of high school. They basically tell you [I]exactly[/I] what to do. It's like being unable to cook a basic recipe off the Internet.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;45362800]are you the one to make that call? is this even true? is there some sort of study or something done by psychologists that has proved that some people just can't be helped because they're too 'far gone' ? (and i don't think someone who is 15 years old really qualifies for too far gone tbh)[/QUOTE]
You're right, he's not the one to make that call, and neither are you.
The psychiatrists who have spent their entire professional life studying the human mind are the ones to make that call.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;45362800]are you the one to make that call? is this even true? is there some sort of study or something done by psychologists that has proved that some people just can't be helped because they're too 'far gone' ? (and i don't think someone who is 15 years old really qualifies for too far gone tbh)[/QUOTE]
Well, you're correct, as long as you just say he is 15.
But if you add that he already raped and killed at that point and even tried to do more shit, you can clearly say that he has gone VERY far.
I'm not the one to make the call either, but in my eyes, this VERY far is already too far.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45357743]Can't say for sure if he is beyond help and in any case at least try and find out what influenced him
Was he abused as a kid?
Is part of his brain messed up?
Was he on drugs?
[/QUOTE]
What do you plan to do, when all you'll get is "No, no and no"? What if he was born that way, and it really cant be helped?
[editline]12th July 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;45362800]are you the one to make that call? is this even true? is there some sort of study or something done by psychologists that has proved that some people just can't be helped because they're too 'far gone' ? (and i don't think someone who is 15 years old really qualifies for too far gone tbh)[/QUOTE]
There are points of no return almost everywhere.
Imagine you're edging up on an orgasm while trying to hold it as much as possible. At one point, you pass your threshold and ejaculate. After you ejaculate, it's the end.
Why do people jump to extremes? It's either don't punish him at all, or lock him up forever with no chance or humanity, like he made the choice to become insane. Why not find a middle ground? Keep him confined, try to work on him and put more security on him, and if he really can't learn to adjust, place him in a prison facility that caters to him. He's a living being. Even if he treats people like shit - he's clearly not sane, it isn't his fault that he's wired differently from birth. He just needs to be kept somewhere else, not necessarily a full-on punishment - just the only place he fits.
[QUOTE=Complifused;45357119]I really don't understand the whole rehabilitation circlejerk, some people don't deserve a second chance.[/QUOTE]
Ok. So how do we decide who to rehabilitate?
Why not just try it on them all to better our advances and perhaps give them a chance.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45366477]You're right, he's not the one to make that call, and neither are you.
The psychiatrists who have spent their entire professional life studying the human mind are the ones to make that call.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that the mental health care people themselves don't agree on what to do. Look, if you break a leg then any hospital you go to is going to do the same thing to fix that leg. If you are insane, well first off not every psychiatrist will even find you insane. That's why prosecutors can bring doctors in to say you're sane, while a defense team can bring in doctors to say you're insane.
I have no doubt that medical science will advance to the point where the public will know what insanity is, what causes it, and who has it. That day is not today though. So let's not pretend we can act like we know even the basics of it, because we don't.
[QUOTE=Trogdon;45358703]You can't really prevent psychological problems like that[/QUOTE]
[quote]
Even with the symptoms in place, we can't say for sure which ones caused him to act this way[/quote]
because we dont know yet
because we dont put any money into it
because our money goes towards just keeping them in a cage for the rest of their life or killing them off, literally for no reason
there's science to be done here but we're too busy killing our subjects to study them and hopefully find a cure
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;45370827]The problem is that the mental health care people themselves don't agree on what to do. Look, if you break a leg then any hospital you go to is going to do the same thing to fix that leg. If you are insane, well first off not every psychiatrist will even find you insane. That's why prosecutors can bring doctors in to say you're sane, while a defense team can bring in doctors to say you're insane.
I have no doubt that medical science will advance to the point where the public will know what insanity is, what causes it, and who has it. That day is not today though. So let's not pretend we can act like we know even the basics of it, because we don't.[/QUOTE]
pretty much FMRI coupled with newer understandings of the brain have been helpful to show that while someone may not be crazy, their brain is setup to be crazy, coupled with their actions, it provides a very plausible defense
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