[QUOTE=Kopimi;34149973]uh no i'm aware that there are two holocaust deniers on facepunch
i was just questioning the fact that out of nowhere you brought up holocaust denial
you can still deny the holocaust without saying "nazi"[/QUOTE]
I'm so sorry man, I thought relating a thread about making holocaust denial illegal where deniers came up was relevant to a thread about making the word nazi illegal, I am just crazy huh!
[editline]10th January 2012[/editline]
also there was a point in this thread where people were talking about nazi apparel, if me mentioning holocaust deniers is off topic, then what is that?
[QUOTE=jaykray;34149046]I'm meeting a holocaust survivor tomorrow, I should ask them what they think of this. I bet they'll say something along the lines of "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"[/QUOTE]
I met this old lady a while back in my school. Felt so bad for her, only her father made it out alive and she had to watch the nazis kill her grandmother. [img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-saddowns.gif[/img]
The banning of words is completely ridiculous and is literally something out of an Orwell book ( Newspeak from 1984 anyone? ). Speech should always be free, even if this is at the cost of political correctness.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;34149901]what
[editline]10th January 2012[/editline]
no
outlawing a word for any purpose is stupid and only gives way to increased censorship and lack of expression
there is never a suitable reason to ban a word[/QUOTE]
If a white male publicly compared his overbearing boss to a whip cracker, or said he felt he was being treated like a nigger (in the slavery context), would he not be reprimanded in some capacity? Again, if they're banning the word out right and mere mention of it gets you in jail for 6 months, yes, that's absolute bullshit. But if the point of the law is to target groups that are misusing a particularly sensitive word very publicly, I don't see a huge issue. Those groups can voice their opinions without resorting to hyperbolic offensive comparisons. "We are being heavily discriminated against by the government" carries the same message as "OMG GOVERNMENT IS NAZIS, QUICK DRESS THE KIDS UP LIKE HOLOCAUST VICTIMS" without having to offend anyone needlessly.
[QUOTE=Asheron;34150126]The banning of words is completely ridiculous and is literally something out of an Orwell book ( Newspeak from 1984 anyone? ). Speech should always be free, even if this is at the cost of political correctness.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that all words should be free to use, since they can carry terrible implications depending on how they're used. Though so long as the word's usage is clearly defined I don't see a problem. So I guess they can be free, just that most of the word's impications can't be.
[QUOTE=I Know Karate;34150150]If a white male publicly compared his overbearing boss to a whip cracker, or said he felt he was being treated like a nigger (in the slavery context), would he not be reprimanded in some capacity?[/QUOTE]
Not judicially.
[QUOTE=I Know Karate;34150150]If a white male publicly compared his overbearing boss to a whip cracker, or said he felt he was being treated like a nigger (in the slavery context), would he not be reprimanded in some capacity? Again, if they're banning the word out right and mere mention of it gets you in jail for 6 months, yes, that's absolute bullshit. But if the point of the law is to target groups that are misusing a particularly sensitive word very publicly, I don't see a huge issue. Those groups can voice their opinions without resorting to hyperbolic offensive comparisons. "We are being heavily discriminated against by the government" carries the same message as "OMG GOVERNMENT IS NAZIS, QUICK DRESS THE KIDS UP LIKE HOLOCAUST VICTIMS" without having to offend anyone needlessly.[/QUOTE]
you're reprimanded if you say that at your job because your company probably has a policy in place that doesn't take kindly to racism or offensive language
the government should have no hand in controlling what you say no matter how offensive or stupid it is. why the fuck should a word carry a jail sentence and a fine just because you said something naughty in public? let the offended parties deal with the person, let their boss deal with it, but don't get the government involved in people's vocabularies and self expression
[editline]10th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Cone;34150194]I don't think that all words should be free to use, since they can carry terrible implications depending on how they're used. Though so long as the word's usage is clearly defined I don't see a problem. So I guess they can be free, just that most of the word's impications can't be.[/QUOTE]
"bawww they're naughty words so you should be in trouble for using them :("
are you seriously trying to say we should sacrifice free speech to prevent people from being offended
[QUOTE=Kopimi;34150225]"bawww they're naughty words so you should be in trouble for using them :("
are you seriously trying to say we should sacrifice free speech to prevent people from being offended[/QUOTE]
Did you not read the second half of my post? I said that the implications of a given word should be restricted, but that the word itself can be used as much as people like. So I'm fine with people saying things, but if it causes a problem that isn't a legitimate one (so dumb things like racism are right out) then there's an issue with the person saying it, not the word itself.
6 months for saying a word? What naz-oh shit.
[QUOTE=Cone;34150346]Did you not read the second half of my post? [B]I said that the implications of a given word should be restricted[/B], but that the word itself can be used as much as people like. So I'm fine with people saying things, but if it causes a problem that isn't a legitimate one (so dumb things like racism are right out) then there's an issue with the person saying it, not the word itself.[/QUOTE]
what does this even mean
[QUOTE=Kopimi;34150225]you're reprimanded if you say that at your job because your company probably has a policy in place that doesn't take kindly to racism or offensive language
the government should have no hand in controlling what you say no matter how offensive or stupid it is. why the fuck should a word carry a jail sentence and a fine just because you said something naughty in public? let the offended parties deal with the person, let their boss deal with it, but don't get the government involved in people's vocabularies and self expression
[/QUOTE]
How would a collection of geriatric survivors "deal" with these groups exactly? An angry letter? Violence, wait no that's not allowed. There really is nothing they can do except for try to take the matter to court somehow.
I agree with you on the censoring issue, yes freedom of speech is important. I understand your argument, this law is wrong in principle. However, on a practical level, this is really just common sense in Israel one would hope. I'm sure the public doesn't look kindly upon Nazi imagery, especially used as a perverted way of making an unreasonable point. The government is just providing itself the measures to be able to reinforce these 'unspoken rules' without other groups having to resort to violence. I just don't see it as being a terrible terrible law from a practical perspective.
[QUOTE=I Know Karate;34150459]How would a collection of geriatric survivors "deal" with these groups exactly? An angry letter? Violence, wait no that's not allowed. There really is nothing they can do except for try to take the matter to court somehow.
I agree with you on the censoring issue, yes freedom of speech is important. I understand your argument, this law is wrong in principle. However, on a practical level, this is really just common sense in Israel one would hope. I'm sure the public doesn't look kindly upon Nazi imagery, especially used as a perverted way of making an unreasonable point. [B]The government is just providing itself the measures to be able to reinforce these 'unspoken rules' without other groups having to resort to violence[/B]. I just don't see it as being a terrible terrible law from a practical perspective.[/QUOTE]
i'm not sure how else i can voice to you how utterly stupid this is
the government should have no power over what you can and cannot say
the fact that they're giving themselves this power is not justified by "unspoken rules"
[QUOTE=Kopimi;34150456]what does this even mean[/QUOTE]
Essentially, I don't like, say, racism (obviously) but I'll let them say as many racy words as they like, but if at any point they're using that word to offend people then they'll be charged adn the word itself is still fine to use.
K?
Nazi
[QUOTE=Cone;34150509]Essentially, I don't like, say, racism (obviously) but I'll let them say as many racy words as they like, but if at any point they're using that word to offend people then they'll be charged adn the word itself is still fine to use.
K?[/QUOTE]
so if the word offends people, or is meant to offend people, it becomes illegal
yeah thats still dumb
[QUOTE=Kopimi;34150549]so if the word offends people, or is meant to offend people, it becomes illegal
yeah thats still dumb[/QUOTE]
No, no, you misunderstand me. The [I]person[/I] is charged for offending people, the word itself can still be used by anyone and you wouldn't be charged just for using a word. If you use a word with the intent to offend, then you can still use that word, just you'll be charged.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;34150507]i'm not sure how else i can voice to you how utterly stupid this is
the government should have no power over what you can and cannot say
the fact that they're giving themselves this power is not justified by "unspoken rules"[/QUOTE]
The word is not completely banned, several forms of its use are banned. Also, if one was to go in the ghetto and start shouting nigger, I'd much prefer a cop to be able to take them in than offended black people to beat the shit out of them and get jail time themselves. Especially so in such a tense area of the world.
No free speech?
Abhorrent disregard for another type of people's lives?
[QUOTE=Cone;34150578]No, no, you misunderstand me. The [I]person[/I] is charged for offending people, the word itself can still be used by anyone and you wouldn't be charged just for using a word. If you use a word with the intent to offend, then you can still use that word, just you'll be charged.[/QUOTE]
The only time where such should be is if its harassment, like if the person is like "you dirty nigger" then that's alright, but if they constantly harass them with awful words after many requests for them to stop, then they should be charged.
In a couple decades the nation of Palestine will be banning the word Israeli
[QUOTE=Cone;34150578]No, no, you misunderstand me. The [I]person[/I] is charged for offending people, the word itself can still be used by anyone and you wouldn't be charged just for using a word. If you use a word with the intent to offend, then you can still use that word, just you'll be charged.[/QUOTE]
yeah thats still dumb
[editline]10th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Clementine;34150650]The only time where such should be is if its harassment, like if the person is like "you dirty nigger" then that's alright, but if they constantly harass them with awful words after many requests for them to stop, then they should be charged.[/QUOTE]
"i think people should be arrested for using words an arbitrary number of times in an arbitrary context which i have decided is unacceptable"
nope, its still stupid
[QUOTE=Clementine;34150650]The only time where such should be is if its harassment, like if the person is like "you dirty nigger" then that's alright, but if they constantly harass them with awful words after many requests for them to stop, then they should be charged.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, basically this. It's only illegal because it breaches on someone else's rights, y'see?
[QUOTE=Kopimi;34150710]yeah thats still dumb
[editline]10th January 2012[/editline]
"i think people should be arrested for using words an arbitrary number of times in an arbitrary context which i have decided is unacceptable"
nope, its still stupid[/QUOTE]
So people should be allowed to harass people after being told to stop many times? And you call him stupid.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;34150710]yeah thats still dumb[/QUOTE]
I don't suppose you'd mind explaining why?
No, you shouldn't be charged for shit with the word 'Nazi'.
It's like getting offended by the word, 'banana'.
'You [I]banana[/I], you [I]banana scum[/I]!'
The key here is the "being asked to stop" which implies that the person made it known that he does not like what is happening, why should someone have the right to harass someone?
Are you saying harassment should be illegal? That's as much of an infringement on free speech as banning a word is.
Because then you have people dictating what is right, what is wrong, what is really harassment... it's dangerous.
This is called repression.
[QUOTE=Clementine;34150754]So people should be allowed to harass people after being told to stop many times? And you call him stupid.[/QUOTE]
yes
if they're stalking you that's different, but if you say "stop saying that :(" it doesn't mean the person need immediately stop or face jail time
[QUOTE=Cone;34150739]Yeah, basically this. It's only illegal because it breaches on someone else's rights, y'see?[/QUOTE]
you have a right not to have your feelings hurt?
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