[QUOTE=Gwoodman;46001294]Can you back this up with some evidence?
[/QUOTE]
Just Google it, I can't be helped to help the ignorant.
[i]okay I'll stop I'm sorry[/i]
In a few years time the same thing will happen but with Kazakhstan. Putin's plan was never to seize all of Ukraine, just look at the 2008 Georgia war, its a step by step process to establish puppet governments in in ex-soviet neighbours
- rebels in X want independence
- X says no
- X starts defeating rebels
- Russia steps in either directly or indirectly
- Russia and rebels start gaining round in X
- NATO tells Russia to stop
- ceasefire agreed on
- pro-russian rebels get independence
Now just swap X with any country from ex-USSR territory.
[QUOTE=shadowraptor;46001614]In a few years time the same thing will happen but with Kazakhstan. Putin's plan was never to seize all of Ukraine, just look at the 2008 Georgia war, its a step by step process to establish puppet governments in in ex-soviet neighbours
- rebels in X want independence
- X says no
- X starts defeating rebels
- Russia steps in either directly or indirectly
- Russia and rebels start gaining round in X
- NATO tells Russia to stop
- ceasefire agreed on
- pro-russian rebels get independence
Now just swap X with any country from ex-USSR territory.[/QUOTE]
And why Kazakhstan? Too much Borat sexy time?
[QUOTE=shadowraptor;46001614]In a few years time the same thing will happen but with Kazakhstan. Putin's plan was never to seize all of Ukraine, just look at the 2008 Georgia war, its a step by step process to establish puppet governments in in ex-soviet neighbours
- rebels in X want independence
- X says no
- X starts defeating rebels
- Russia steps in either directly or indirectly
- Russia and rebels start gaining round in X
- NATO tells Russia to stop
- ceasefire agreed on
- pro-russian rebels get independence
Now just swap X with any country from ex-USSR territory.[/QUOTE]
You are missing one crucial thing. Kazakhstan is in the Eurasian Union.
Ukraine and Georgia had both expressed an intention not to join the Eurasian Union or to join NATO.
Putin wants the Eurasian Union to grow, intervening/interfering/invading Kazakhstan, a Eurasian Union member, would scare away other potential members and make them seek stronger ties with the EU or NATO instead.
If anything Putin will try and maintain stability in Kazakhstan as a kind of "hey look how well our members are doing, you can join too" type of poster child. Think of it like carrot and stick.
[QUOTE=shadowraptor;46001614]In a few years time the same thing will happen but with Kazakhstan. Putin's plan was never to seize all of Ukraine, just look at the 2008 Georgia war, its a step by step process to establish puppet governments in in ex-soviet neighbours
- rebels in X want independence
- X says no
- X starts defeating rebels
- Russia steps in either directly or indirectly
- Russia and rebels start gaining round in X
- NATO tells Russia to stop
- ceasefire agreed on
- pro-russian rebels get independence
Now just swap X with any country from ex-USSR territory.[/QUOTE]
The rebels in ukraine didn't want independence at first though.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46000980]The first photo is from the time when no Russian soldiers fought. These are green men and there was no fighting with them.[/QUOTE]
Then what stormed those Ukrainian bases with tanks and shot those Ukrainian soldiers?
Oh I bet it was never reported in your media gulags.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46000980]The second one is some soldier laying in grass. May be Russian or may be not. That's not really proof.[/QUOTE]
When you asked for a picture of Russians in Ukraine - [I]what exactly were you asking for?[/I]
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46000980]"Clearly a Russian tank". I remember what that photo is from. Can we please not be internet military experts. This is like trying to distinguish one AK variant from an other. [/QUOTE]
Except its from the International Institute for Strategic Studies? Answer that now please.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46000980]And the city conoy photo - I just dunno. Is it even Ukraine? Is it even 2014? We are going throught Ukraine black ops, right? Well then why the fuck is our glorious army riding throught a town highway with flags out? Oh I forgot every black ops operation goes like this.[/QUOTE]
This isn't tom clancy.
Plus Russia has hardly been discrete about all this either. They don't have to be - when they got uneducated people at home like yourself.
[QUOTE=Raskol;46002959]Except its from the International Institute for Strategic Studies? Answer that now please. [/QUOTE]
The willingness of Russians to blow off such clear evidence is absolutely absurd. You can try to claim that the separatists captured a Buk and somehow learned how to operate it, you can claim that your troops got lost and accidentally invaded fifty miles into a foreign country, you can claim that the separatists boasting about being trained in Russia and equipped by Russians are just making things up, but to dismiss the fact that international, renowned military analysts are identifying this as a specifically Russian tank that has never been exported and could ONLY be operated by Russians or someone deliberately supplied by them is fucking ridiculous.
It veered from maintaining skepticism of pro-Western media to outright denial of reality weeks ago.
[QUOTE=catbarf;46003550]The willingness of Russians to blow off such clear evidence is absolutely absurd. You can try to claim that the separatists captured a Buk and somehow learned how to operate it, you can claim that your troops got lost and accidentally invaded fifty miles into a foreign country, you can claim that the separatists boasting about being trained in Russia and equipped by Russians are just making things up, but to dismiss the fact that international, renowned military analysts are identifying this as a specifically Russian tank that has never been exported and could ONLY be operated by Russians or someone deliberately supplied by them is fucking ridiculous.
It veered from maintaining skepticism of pro-Western media to outright denial of reality weeks ago.[/QUOTE]
You keep referering to these soldiers being captured in Ukraine.
Please tell me, have you watched the actual interview with the soldier?
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46003565]You keep referering to these soldiers being captured in Ukraine.
Please tell me, have you watched the actual interview with the soldier?[/QUOTE]
He didn't actually say that the accidental invasion was part of russia's invasion of Ukraine - he was going on about the tank, y'know.
I would actually like to see the report on the tank - not that I don't believe that some Russian soldiers are in Ukraine (accidentally or not), but it would be nice with something concrete here.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;46003694]He didn't actually say that the accidental invasion was part of russia's invasion of Ukraine - he was going on about the tank, y'know.
I would actually like to see the report on the tank - not that I don't believe that some Russian soldiers are in Ukraine (accidentally or not), but it would be nice with something concrete here.[/QUOTE]
I am talking about this
[quote] that your troops got lost and accidentally invaded fifty miles into a foreign country[/quote]
and he seems to imply they were actually invading.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46003868]
and he seems to imply they were actually invading.[/QUOTE]
are you implying that those troops going fifty miles into Ukrainian territory [I]was actually an accident?[/I]
[editline]17th September 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46000819]Give me a photo of a Russian soldier fighting in Ukraine.
The only real evidence of any Russian soldiers being in Ukraine are Russian paratroopers from the last article.[/QUOTE]
are the bodies of dead Russian soldiers coming home to be buried not enough evidence for you?
how about the loved ones of said dead Russian soldiers being intimidated by the government for asking how they died?
[editline]17th September 2014[/editline]
and you still haven't addressed this:
[QUOTE=Raskol;46002959]
Except its from the International Institute for Strategic Studies? Answer that now please.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;46003949]are you implying that those troops going fifty miles into Ukrainian territory [I]was actually an accident?[/I]
[/QUOTE]
Have you watched the interview? The guys marched into the territory, didn't know what was going on, then approached an Ukrainian tank and were all the way "what the fuck is going on?" when they saw an Ukrainian flag. Later they proceeded to join Ukrainians and blamed their own command, acted very anti-Russia.
Are you implying that wasn't an accident? Russians just sent some soldiers with no orders into enemy territory to let them get captured and turn against Russia?
This may or may not be an accident, maybe it was some plot that went wrong, but their way it's not an invasion or they wouldn't give themselves up like that.
[editline]17th September 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;46003949]
are the bodies of dead Russian soldiers coming home to be buried not enough evidence for you?
how about the loved ones of said dead Russian soldiers being intimidated by the government for asking how they died?
[/QUOTE]
No, it's not evidence for me. They may or may not have died in Ukraine. It's not like military drills are all safe and it's not like Russia isn't agressive in foreign politics. Soldiers died, but no clear info is present. You can speculate they died in Ukraine, but it can't be proven as of now.
And about the tank - I would like to see the article about it. There is still a miriad factors involved. The photo might not be from Ukraine, it could be rebels/Ukrainians that got hands on a T72 tank. The article this tank stuff came up in itself says that it's not clear if it has been used outside of Russia.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46004066]Have you watched the interview? The guys marched into the territory, didn't know what was going on, then approached an Ukrainian tank and were all the way "what the fuck is going on?" when they saw an Ukrainian flag. Later they proceeded to join Ukrainians and blamed their own command, acted very anti-Russia.
Are you implying that wasn't an accident? Russians just sent some soldiers with no orders into enemy territory to let them get captured and turn against Russia?
This may or may not be an accident, maybe it was some plot that went wrong, but their way it's not an invasion or they wouldn't give themselves up like that.
[/quote]
yeah whoops I guess they just forgot their maps, compasses, and navigational electronics that day and [I]accidentally[/I] marched 50 fucking miles into enemy territory
because, you know, that happens all the time
[quote]
No, it's not evidence for me. They may or may not have died in Ukraine. It's not like military drills are all safe and it's not like Russia isn't agressive in foreign politics. Soldiers died, but no clear info is present. You can speculate they died in Ukraine, but it can't be proven as of now.
[/quote]
so even if the spate of Russian soldier deaths were due to very conveniently timed training exercises (lol what am I reading), why would the Russian government be intimidating the family members of the deceased for asking about the circumstances of their deaths?????
[quote]
And about the tank - I would like to see the article about it. There is still a miriad factors involved. The photo might not be from Ukraine, it could be rebels/Ukrainians that got hands on a T72 tank.
[/quote]
couldn't you use this logic to disprove literally any photographic evidence of anything?
[quote]
The article this tank stuff came up in itself says that it's not clear if it has been used outside of Russia.[/QUOTE]
did you actually read the article or what???
[quote]But now experts at the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) in London have told the BBC that they have [B]identified a Russian tank in a separatist column in eastern Ukraine [/B]that they say could only have come from across the border in Russia.[/quote]
the article was using the fact that the tank had not seen use outside of Russia [I]as evidence that it was a Russian operated tank[/I], so you are kind of defeating your own argument there
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;46004198]yeah whoops I guess they just forgot their maps, compasses, and navigational electronics that day and [I]accidentally[/I] marched 50 fucking miles into enemy territory
[/QUOTE]
Did you watch the interview?
What are you implying they did then?
You think I am wrong, I got it, no need to repeat for 3 times. But what do you think? I am geniunely interested.
MuffinZerg, how do you explain this?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWur4EE3b6M[/media]
There you have an [i]entire Russian mechanized regiment[/i] complete with command and logistics vehicles, with safety warnings written in Russian on the side, located well within Ukrainian territory as shown by the road sign indicating the column was located on M04-E40; that highway is known as M21 on the Russian side of the border. You have vehicles in that column in service only with the Russian army and personnel in Russian uniforms manning them. Do they look like they're lost? Do they honestly look like they're there by accident?
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46004212]Did you watch the interview?
What are you implying they did then?
You think I am wrong, I got it, no need to repeat for 3 times. But what do you think? I am geniunely interested.[/QUOTE]
I have no idea what they could possibly have been doing there (transporting weapons, reconnaissance?) but I know that there is no chance in hell that any soldier worth his salt is going to make a [B]50 mile[/B] accidental detour.
They've received land navigation training and unless the Russian army has suddenly cut good old fashioned maps and compasses out of the budget (and have fitted all troops with blindfolds so they cant see the sun), they knew exactly what direction they were heading and that they were heading a long way in that direction. 50 miles is not a short march.
You gonna respond the rest of my post?
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;46004198]yeah whoops I guess they just forgot their maps, compasses, and navigational electronics that day and [I]accidentally[/I] marched 50 fucking miles into enemy territory
because, you know, that happens all the time[/quote]
yeah whoops I guess russian generals just sent an entire convoy into ukraine to do absolutely nothing but act very disoriented and clearly not combat-ready, with no explicit orders of any kind beside to engage the first ukrainian target they come across with conversation and inquiries for directions.
because, you know, that happens all the time in war
You keep making really good points except you never stop to think about the motive or the intended end-goal of such actions.
Why parade 'Russian' troops around Ukrainian cities, in plain sight, when Kremlin explicitly says there are no Russian troops in Ukraine?
Why send a Russian convoy into Ukraine to do absolutely nothing besides go several dozen km into Ukrainian territory in, again, plain sight and then back again?
[QUOTE=RVFHarrier;46004298]MuffinZerg, how do you explain this?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWur4EE3b6M[/media]
There you have an [i]entire Russian mechanized regiment[/i] complete with command and logistics vehicles, with safety warnings written in Russian on the side, located well within Ukrainian territory as shown by the road sign indicating the column was located on M04-E40; that highway is known as M21 on the Russian side of the border. You have vehicles in that column in service only with the Russian army and personnel in Russian uniforms manning them. Do they look like they're lost? Do they honestly look like they're there by accident?[/QUOTE]
Lost in transit. Sorry Ukraine.
[QUOTE=RVFHarrier;46004298]MuffinZerg, how do you explain this?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWur4EE3b6M[/media]
There you have an [i]entire Russian mechanized regiment[/i] complete with command and logistics vehicles, with safety warnings written in Russian on the side, located well within Ukrainian territory as shown by the road sign indicating the column was located on M04-E40; that highway is known as M21 on the Russian side of the border. You have vehicles in that column in service only with the Russian army and personnel in Russian uniforms manning them. Do they look like they're lost? Do they honestly look like they're there by accident?[/QUOTE]
I can't watch the video now because my dorm internet can barely load the page, but I will sure watch it later.
If the video matches your description then this will be the first actual evidence I have seen.
There fore your point is proven. Russian military are/were in Ukraine.
[editline]17th September 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;46004336]I have no idea what they could possibly have been doing there (transporting weapons, reconnaissance?) but I know that there is no chance in hell that any soldier worth his salt is going to make a [B]50 mile[/B] accidental detour.
They've received land navigation training and unless the Russian army has suddenly cut good old fashioned maps and compasses out of the budget (and have fitted all troops with blindfolds so they cant see the sun), they knew exactly what direction they were heading and that they were heading a long way in that direction. 50 miles is not a short march.
You gonna respond the rest of my post?[/QUOTE]
You extremely sarcastic and witty comments about these soldiers clearly implied they invaded Ukraine this way. But alright, I assume you didn't watch the interview.
If you navigate to the facepunch thread where we discussed these soldiers you will see that I actually put their route on google maps. There you can easily see that it's pretty easy to make a 50 mile march into Ukraine without realising that they crossed the border. No, it was not "accidental detour". The point is that they were given an order to march in a direction. This is it. The East Ukraine-Russia border is just grassy hills, save for a few border towns and checkpoints. They crossed it somewhat around 50 km from the nearest border town. And then proceeded to go in a straight line until they hit an Ukrainian town. It's a very strange occasion and it's unknown what it was. But the fact is that soldiers were shocked and didn't even try to fight anyone. As soon as they were captured they turned hostile to their command.
You may not agree with me, but my idea is that it was a fuck up by their commanders.
However it's all not relevant.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46004561]I can't watch the video now because my dorm internet can barely load the page, but I will sure watch it later.
If the video matches your description then this will be the first actual evidence I have seen.
There fore your point is proven. Russian military are/were in Ukraine.
[editline]17th September 2014[/editline]
You extremely sarcastic and witty comments about these soldiers clearly implied they invaded Ukraine this way. But alright, I assume you didn't watch the interview.
If you navigate to the facepunch thread where we discussed these soldiers you will see that I actually put their route on google maps. There you can easily see that it's pretty easy to make a 50 mile march into Ukraine without realising that they crossed the border. No, it was not "accidental detour". The point is that they were given an order to march in a direction. This is it. The East Ukraine-Russia border is just grassy hills, save for a few border towns and checkpoints. They crossed it somewhat around 50 km from the nearest border town. And then proceeded to go in a straight line until they hit an Ukrainian town. It's a very strange occasion and it's unknown what it was. But the fact is that soldiers were shocked and didn't even try to fight anyone. As soon as they were captured they turned hostile to their command.
You may not agree with me, but my idea is that it was a fuck up by their commanders.
However it's all not relevant.[/QUOTE]
Um I have a question.
Why the fuck does Russia have GLONASS yet doesn't have it installed in vehicles, or at least have the commander have a GLONASS receiver? It has the same capabilities as GPS and has coverage worldwide, why did they give these men just a fucking map and the simple order of "Go here."?
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;46004721]Um I have a question.
Why the fuck does Russia have GLONASS yet doesn't have it installed in vehicles, or at least have the commander have a GLONASS receiver? It has the same capabilities as GPS and has coverage worldwide, why did they give these men just a fucking map and the simple order of "Go here."?[/QUOTE]
It's unclear if they had vehicles.
I have no idea. As it has been said the story is really shady. And if it's some kind of Russian plot then it either failed or is really deep for us mere humans to understand.
Also GLONASS sucks. Last time I checked it took 4 hours for ships to sync with it (while staying stationary, it wouldnt work if they moved). Maybe it improved, but I don't know if any portable glonass recievers exist.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46005333]It's unclear if they had vehicles.[/QUOTE]
How do you go 50 miles into another country without vehicles? Were they walking for days?
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46005333]Also GLONASS sucks. Last time I checked it took 4 hours for ships to sync with it (while staying stationary, it wouldnt work if they moved). Maybe it improved, but I don't know if any portable glonass recievers exist.[/QUOTE]
lol.
[url]https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=GLONASS+receiver&safe=off&tbm=shop[/url]
[quote=Wikipedia]By 2010, GLONASS had achieved 100% coverage of Russia's territory and in October 2011, the full orbital constellation of 24 satellites was restored, enabling full global coverage. The GLONASS satellites' designs have undergone several upgrades, with the latest version being GLONASS-K.[/quote]
[quote=Wikipedia]According to Russian System of Differentional Correction and Monitoring's data, as of 2010, precisions of GLONASS navigation definitions (for p=0.95) for latitude and longitude were 4.46—7.38 m with mean number of navigation space vehicles (NSV) equals 7—8 (depending on station). In comparison, the same time precisions of GPS navigation definitions were 2.00—8.76 m with mean number of NSV equals 6—11 (depending on station).[citation needed] Civilian GLONASS used alone is therefore very slightly less accurate than GPS. On high latitudes (north or south), GLONASS' accuracy is better than that of GPS due to the orbital position of the satellites.[76]
Some modern receivers are able to use both GLONASS and GPS satellites together, providing greatly improved coverage in urban canyons and giving a very fast time to fix due to over 50 satellites being available. In indoor, urban canyon or mountainous areas, accuracy can be greatly improved over using GPS alone. For using both navigation systems simultaneously, precisions of GLONASS/GPS navigation definitions were 2.37—4.65 m with mean number of NSV equals 14—19 (depends on station).
In May 2009, Anatoly Perminov the then director of the Russian Federal Space Agency stated that actions were undertaken to expand GLONASS's constellation and to improve the ground segment in order to increase the navigation definition of GLONASS to an accuracy of 2.8 m by 2011.[77] In particular, the latest satellite design, GLONASS-K has the ability to double the system's accuracy once introduced. The system's ground segment is also to undergo improvements. As of early 2012, sixteen positioning ground stations are under construction in Russia and in the Antarctic at the Bellingshausen and Novolazarevskaya bases. New stations will be built around the southern hemisphere from Brazil to Indonesia. Together, these improvements are expected to bring GLONASS' accuracy to 0.6 m or better by 2020.[/quote]
I wonder why it's so hard for a lot of the FP Russians to accept the fact that Putin has ordered the invasion of Ukraine and Russia is being a shit? Is it because if you don't deny it online then you will be sent to the Gulags for not loving mother Russia enough?
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46005333]
Also GLONASS sucks. Last time I checked it took 4 hours for ships to sync with it (while staying stationary, it wouldnt work if they moved). Maybe it improved, but I don't know if any portable glonass recievers exist.[/QUOTE]
Uh most smartphones use Glonass. If it took 4 hrs to sync it wouldn't be used in missiles. Just admit it, Russian troops are in Novorossiya. It's obvious.
[QUOTE=laserguided;46008332]Uh most smartphones use Glonass. If it took 4 hrs to sync it wouldn't be used in missiles. Just admit it, Russian troops are in Novorossiya. It's obvious.[/QUOTE]
He hasn't even admitted the Green men in Crimea were Russian, despite having only equipment used by the modern Russian military, and no one else... Come on, we all know Russia is over there, and they just got more territory, and the rebels got a nice chance to rearm. Who knows what the Russians are currently supplying them.
[QUOTE=laserguided;46008332]Uh most smartphones use Glonass. If it took 4 hrs to sync it wouldn't be used in missiles. Just admit it, Russian troops are in Novorossiya. It's obvious.[/QUOTE]
I hope you start reading my posts one day.
I never denied these Russians were in Ukraine. Lol.
I dont even know what you are trying to achieve.
Yes, there are Russians in Ukraine. What a surprise, I never denied it.
[editline]18th September 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pilot1215;46008875]He hasn't even admitted the Green men in Crimea were Russian, despite having only equipment used by the modern Russian military, and no one else... Come on, we all know Russia is over there, and they just got more territory, and the rebels got a nice chance to rearm. Who knows what the Russians are currently supplying them.[/QUOTE]
Please point out in which post I denied the Green men in crimea were Russian.
[editline]18th September 2014[/editline]
Also thanks to all the GLONASS experts here.
I haven't checked on GLONASS for ages so thanks for informing me it doesn't suck anymore.
I don't really know [b]what the fuck [/b] you are trying to achieve. Basically I am saying that I believe these soldiers and that it was an accident because they themselves said so and because of a number of other points. But you deny it and try to ridicule me over it. Well, if it was not an accident, what was it? I already asked one what he thinks about it.
The fun part is that I am the only one who watched the interview with the soldiers and checked on a map here.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46012082]Also thanks to all the GLONASS experts here.
I haven't checked on GLONASS for ages so thanks for informing me it doesn't suck anymore.
I don't really know [b]what the fuck [/b] you are trying to achieve. Basically I am saying that I believe these soldiers and that it was an accident because they themselves said so and because of a number of other points. But you deny it and try to ridicule me over it. Well, if it was not an accident, what was it? I already asked one what he thinks about it.
The fun part is that I am the only one who watched the interview with the soldiers and checked on a map here.[/QUOTE]
I'm more or less asking questions because why does a super power not have fucking GPS in their vehicles even after large modernization efforts. The US issues "Soldier Digital Assistant" and "Commander Digital Assistant" receivers to all soldiers and officers, so I honestly don't know why the Russian's don't do the same with either strictly GLONASS or dual GPS/GLONASS receivers, seeing as how both systems working together increase the effectiveness, and therefore accuracy of direction.
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;46012821]I'm more or less asking questions because why does a super power not have fucking GPS in their vehicles even after large modernization efforts. The US issues "Soldier Digital Assistant" and "Commander Digital Assistant" receivers to all soldiers and officers, so I honestly don't know why the Russian's don't do the same with either strictly GLONASS or dual GPS/GLONASS receivers, seeing as how both systems working together increase the effectiveness, and therefore accuracy of direction.[/QUOTE]
Anything could happen and there could be a thousand reasons for them to miss the border (since there is no physical border in any way).
Do GLONASS/GPS military devices show political borders?
Anyway I think speculating about it is just worthless.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46012922]Anything could happen and there could be a thousand reasons for them to miss the border (since there is no physical border in any way).
Do GLONASS/GPS military devices show political borders?
Anyway I think speculating about it is just worthless.[/QUOTE]
They should now, your country is the one that sparked the use of GPS by civilians.
[quote=Wikipedia] In 1983, in the wake of the tragedy of the downing of the Korean Airlines Flight 007, an aircraft which was shot down while in Soviet airspace due to a navigational error, president Reagan announced that the navigation capabilities of the existing military-GPS system were to be made available for dual civilian use, however, civilians were to initially only be given access to the slightly degraded "Selective Availability" positioning signal.[/quote]
So if GPS was used, they could have avoided Soviet airspace because they'd know they're in Soviet airspace instead of relying on a map that got them killed.
If they could show political borders on GPS by 1983, even though the system was in place since 73, why can't they now? I mean they can show roads, highways, etc with near dead on accuracy, why can't it tell a border that even though isn't physical, it's clearly defined.
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;46013018]They should now, your country is the one that sparked the use of GPS by civilians.
So if GPS was used, they could have avoided Soviet airspace because they'd know they're in Soviet airspace instead of relying on a map that got them killed.
If they could show political borders on GPS by 1983, even though the system was in place since 73, why can't they now? I mean they can show roads, highways, etc with near dead on accuracy, why can't it tell a border that even though isn't physical, it's clearly defined.[/QUOTE]
Uh the Russian army is equipped with Glonass. Sure, maybe not in every combat vehicle but every modernized combat vehicle. That is what a navigator/commander is for.
[editline]18th September 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;46012821]I'm more or less asking questions because why does a super power not have fucking GPS in their vehicles even after large modernization efforts. The US issues "Soldier Digital Assistant" and "Commander Digital Assistant" receivers to all soldiers and officers, so I honestly don't know why the Russian's don't do the same with either strictly GLONASS or dual GPS/GLONASS receivers, seeing as how both systems working together increase the effectiveness, and therefore accuracy of direction.[/QUOTE]
More on Russian army soldier kit modernization/integration with Glonass
[video=youtube;4Djh1pdaivg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Djh1pdaivg[/video]
The modernization is a work in progress until 2016, where the first stage of Russian military modernization should be completed.
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