Abandoned dog ecstatic to be reunited with owners at shelter - only for the family to choose another
100 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Skerion;51456291]Why wouldn't it even be in the same ballpark, out of curiosity?[/QUOTE]
It would depend on the individual, I chose to have kids and have chosen not to own a dog. Owning a dog would not be in the same balllpark for me. I could not possibly have the same emotional tie to an animal as I do to my children.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51456164]everyone is a winner doctrine applied to labour dogs.
thats just great.[/QUOTE]
That's just how you train dogs, man. You have to regularly reward them for their positive behavior, and practice that positive behavior regularly to reinforce it. If drug dogs are trained to find the scent of drugs, and they haven't found any drugs for a while, you need to run them through some practice runs in order to refresh the training and keep them focused on their job.
There's no "participation trophy" conspiracy going on here just basic conditioning and reinforcement.
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51456422]I was trying to make a joke, sorry.
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
really sorry, i was pretty sure it would have been entertaining
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
I know, i said it for comedic value but it was bad it seems, i apologise.[/QUOTE]
Ah, fair nough
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51456749]It would depend on the individual, I chose to have kids and have chosen not to own a dog. Owning a dog would not be in the same balllpark for me. I could not possibly have the same emotional tie to an animal as I do to my children.[/QUOTE]
Well yeah obviously it's subjective from person to person. Regardless of our opinions on them, dogs really do see us as family- to allow another living creature to form such a strong emotional bond with you, only to discard it like some kind of unfeeling object is immensely cruel imo.
I simply cannot imagine thinking of a dog as nothing but property. It's currently one of my life's ambitions to move into a property with a garden so my partner and I can adopt a rescue dog, as far as I'm concerned they really are man's best friend.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51455341]caveat insertion GO
So basically the dog became unmanageable due to grief, and became incompatible with the family.[/QUOTE]
While it's a sad situation I feel I don't know enough to judge the owners.
- They didn't fully agree on getting a dog (which is bad but it can happen) but her deceased partner really wanted to.
- Her partner had the dog before they got into a relationship.
- It was too emotionally disturbing see and hear the dog crying while having to deal with the fact that your significant other just died.
- They didn't feel the dog was "theirs" as in it was always with her deceased partner.
One or more of those reasons would make it seem reasonable.
edit: wait, her father? whose father?
If it's the dogs "father" then see above but if it's Lara's father was he living with them or did they try to take ownership of the dog after he died?
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51456765]That's just how you train dogs, man. You have to regularly reward them for their positive behavior, and practice that positive behavior regularly to reinforce it. If drug dogs are trained to find the scent of drugs, and they haven't found any drugs for a while, you need to run them through some practice runs in order to refresh the training and keep them focused on their job.
There's no "participation trophy" conspiracy going on here just basic conditioning and reinforcement.
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
Ah, fair nough[/QUOTE]
But positive reinforcement based training is too nice and too new!
That argument comes up too much. We know that R+/P- techniques are better than what our culture usually defaults too for dog training, but so many people refuse to give it a shot because of silly reasons. It's remarkably effective, and a lot of fun when the dog figures it out.
My dog was dumped out in the middle of nowhere in Fresno, CA. No one IN Seattle would adopt to me, so I saw a dog on CL I liked and drove to get him. He's been clearly heavily abused by a male, and when I first got him he didn't know any commands and was terribly difficult to walk. Now, he's the easiest dog to walk I've ever owned and I'm blown away by how swiftly he learns new things.
Back on topic though, GSDs do very very poorly in shelters. That breed relies on bonding strongly to a few individuals for its general psychological well-being, and they can go slightly bonkers without that. They're known for just shutting down in shelters, along with having issues with grief after losing someone they really love. It can be fixed though, but it is a fair amount of work.
Still, it's an amount of work you should be willing to put in to help a family member
[QUOTE=Svinnik;51455591]Stupid question but can dogs feel grief at the death of another dog?[/QUOTE]
Years ago, we had two fully grown dogs: A black cocker spaniel named Velvet and a Golden Retriever named Dorito, both rescues. They adored each other's company, even if Velvet was a bit sassy sometimes.
12 years into the union, Velvet finally died of old age. Dorito didn't look as happy for a long time after that. He used to love to beg for treats and do tricks and run around in the yard and play tug-o-war with his toys. For quite a few months after Velvet's passing, Dorito hardly wanted to do anything. He'd often refuse to eat and simply lay down next to Velvet's bed.
I think dogs can feel grief at the loss of another dog, yes.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51456749]It would depend on the individual, I chose to have kids and have chosen not to own a dog. Owning a dog would not be in the same balllpark for me. I could not possibly have the same emotional tie to an animal as I do to my children.[/QUOTE]
Well, regardless of your preferences, if you do decide to adopt a pet, I feel like you should at least try to treat him like an actual living being with feelings rather than like a funny toy and not neglect him.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51456422]I was trying to make a joke, sorry.
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
really sorry, i was pretty sure it would have been entertaining
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
I know, i said it for comedic value but it was bad it seems, i apologise.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough, I've been known to make similar statements for the sake of comedy. Anymore I put them in quotes to emphasize that I'm not the one actually saying it and to put emphasis on the intended mockery. Just a note.
[QUOTE=CapsAdmin;51456841]While it's a sad situation I feel I don't know enough to judge the owners.
- They didn't fully agree on getting a dog (which is bad but it can happen) but her deceased partner really wanted to.
- Her partner had the dog before they got into a relationship.
- It was too emotionally disturbing see and hear the dog crying while having to deal with the fact that your significant other just died.
- They didn't feel the dog was "theirs" as in it was always with her deceased partner.
One or more of those reasons would make it seem reasonable.
edit: wait, her father? whose father?
If it's the dogs "father" then see above but if it's Lara's father was he living with them or did they try to take ownership of the dog after he died?[/QUOTE]
None of those reasons are right for this situation though. The dog still sees himself as part of the family because it was happy to see them back. If your pet is going through hard times treat it like any other family member and support it. If it's impossible or his condition doesn't improve you humanly put it down. Not abandon it in a park or let it run away and not look for it.
The fucking audacity to go back for another dog afterwards is just salt in the wound.
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
And ignoring your old dog even.
[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;51456115]I love animals but this isn't true at all, like it's not even in the same ballpark[/QUOTE]
Watch this.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMs7dkdO4YY[/media]
They have the emotions of a child without the ability to understand the reasons.
[QUOTE=rider695;51457063]None of those reasons are right for this situation though. The dog still sees himself as part of the family because it was happy to see them back. If your pet is going through hard times treat it like any other family member and support it. If it's impossible or his condition doesn't improve you humanly put it down. Not abandon it in a park or let it run away and not look for it.
The fucking audacity to go back for another dog afterwards is just salt in the wound.
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
And ignoring your old dog even.[/QUOTE]
While writing all of that I somehow didn't think about the abandon part. (even though it says it in the title) Which is kind of an important point.. They should have taken the dog to the shelter if they couldn't provide for him, even if that reason is bad instead of leaving it a stray.
[QUOTE=CapsAdmin;51456841]While it's a sad situation I feel I don't know enough to judge the owners.
- They didn't fully agree on getting a dog (which is bad but it can happen) but her deceased partner really wanted to.
- Her partner had the dog before they got into a relationship.
- It was too emotionally disturbing see and hear the dog crying while having to deal with the fact that your significant other just died.
- They didn't feel the dog was "theirs" as in it was always with her deceased partner.
One or more of those reasons would make it seem reasonable.
edit: wait, her father? whose father?
If it's the dogs "father" then see above but if it's Lara's father was he living with them or did they try to take ownership of the dog after he died?[/QUOTE]
Regardless of the reasons why they were unable to care for the dog though, they were still responsible. As most humane societies, it doesn't cost anything to drop a dog off with them the proper way, save for maybe the few gallons of gas to get there. They decided that once the dog ran away, they weren't going to bother to take responsibility for losing it in the first place.
They were irresponsible, plain and simple, and shouldn't be looking into getting another dog anytime soon if they can't keep the one they had from escaping and running away, or at the very least, getting it microchipped and collared so it could be identified. Sounds like they didn't even bother doing that.
I can understand not having the ability to care for an animal but absolving yourself of responsibility and then taking on ANOTHER animal is ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Pascall;51457134]Regardless of the reasons why they were unable to care for the dog though, they were still responsible. As most humane societies, it doesn't cost anything to drop a dog off with them the proper way, save for maybe the few gallons of gas to get there. They decided that once the dog ran away, they weren't going to bother to take responsibility for losing it in the first place.
They were irresponsible, plain and simple, and shouldn't be looking into getting another dog anytime soon if they can't keep the one they had from escaping and running away, or at the very least, getting it microchipped and collared so it could be identified. Sounds like they didn't even bother doing that.
I can understand not having the ability to care for an animal but absolving yourself of responsibility and then taking on ANOTHER animal is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I totally agree with this regardless of my hypothetical reasons.
[QUOTE=rider695;51457063]None of those reasons are right for this situation though. The dog still sees himself as part of the family because it was happy to see them back. If your pet is going through hard times treat it like any other family member and support it. If it's impossible or his condition doesn't improve [b]you humanly put it down[/b]. Not abandon it in a park or let it run away and not look for it.
The fucking audacity to go back for another dog afterwards is just salt in the wound.
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
And ignoring your old dog even.[/QUOTE]
Is it bad that that almost feels somewhat worse to me? If it's really obvious that he wants to die, then I wouldn't feel that way, but you can't always tell whether they want to stay alive or not.
[QUOTE=Skerion;51457224]Is it bad that that almost feels somewhat worse to me? If it's really obvious that he wants to die, then I wouldn't feel that way, but you can't always tell.[/QUOTE]
I know how you feel. I watched the vet put our old family dog down when I was 8. He was old, could barely walk, barely ate and when he did it was laying down because he couldn't stand up for more than a minute. I hated my parents for so long after that, but later I understood it was the right thing to do.
Now that I have my own dog I dread the day I have to make that choice, but it's your responsibilty as an owner to make the right decision, even if it means losing your dog.
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
I should've added that they could've also put him up for adoption or brought him to a shelter because those are also better options.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51455341]caveat insertion GO
So basically the dog became unmanageable due to grief, and became incompatible with the family.[/QUOTE]
wow it's like me and all my romantic relationships (woo depression)
Valid reasons to abandon a dog to the wild:
1. You are a monster
2.
[QUOTE=rider695;51457254]Now that I have my own dog I dread the day I have to make that choice, but it's your responsibilty as an owner to make the right decision, even if it means losing your dog.[/QUOTE]
It's less about losing the dog and more about the lack of consent. If my dog was able to directly communicate with me and make it 100% clear that he wanted his life to end as soon as possible, I wouldn't feel nearly as bad about putting him down.
But yes, putting him up for adoption or bringing him to a shelter would be a lot better.
You should always take a dog to a vet for evaluation before making the decision to put them down, imo. Even if it's for something like extensive and debilitating grief. A vet may tell you something that you didn't previously know.
[QUOTE=rider695;51457254]I know how you feel. I watched the vet put our old family dog down when I was 8. He was old, could barely walk, barely ate and when he did it was laying down because he couldn't stand up for more than a minute. I hated my parents for so long after that, but later I understood it was the right thing to do.
Now that I have my own dog I dread the day I have to make that choice, but it's your responsibilty as an owner to make the right decision, even if it means losing your dog.
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
I should've added that they could've also put him up for adoption or brought him to a shelter because those are also better options.[/QUOTE]
I feel the same way as Skerion (I think) and I can't shake it off. Every time I see a story about an animal being put down I imagine replacing that animal with a human and think about how terrible the situation would be.
How did you come to understand it was the right thing to do?
I brought my old and sick cat to the vet because he was starting to get seizures and they decided to put him down against my will. Although I believe a veterinarian's judgment is better than mine but he really didn't seem depressed to me. I had known my cat for 14 years and so I believe I could make a better judgment than the vet when it comes to his feelings. But of course I could be wrong.
They gave him the shot and it failed the first time and so he woke up again. The worst part was that he was all cat-like again, being curious of who the vet was, wanting to be scratched, etc. The second time the vet gave him a shot his pupils expanded completely and he started foaming from his mouth. I don't know how he felt but it could have been extremely painful or extremely euphoric.
[QUOTE=Araknid;51455369]It's still scummy regardless.
Abandoning a dog for reasons other than you being literally unable to provide for the dog (monetary, health, or location) is scummy. A dog is a living being that bonds and loves you, they aren't just toys that you throw out if they annoy you.
The grief is a behavioural issue and can be worked on, and it seems like the family couldn't be fucked dealing with it.[/QUOTE]
Yup. My best friend had to get rid of one of her dogs, it came from an abused home and was always kind of a problem but one day he killed one of her cats. She has other cats and animals so she had to find another temporary home for him until someone else could adopt. He bounced around like 5 different places and they all said he was completely unmanageable. My friend had to put him down after pouring nearly $1000 dollars in fees for having different people watch him and missing tons of work making sure he didn't eat her other animals.
It's the only situation I experienced where I thought it was justified to let him go. :[
[QUOTE=CapsAdmin;51457542]I feel the same way as Skerion (I think) and I can't shake it off. Every time I see a story about an animal being put down I imagine replacing that animal with a human and think about how terrible the situation would be.
How did you come to understand it was the right thing to do?
I brought my old and sick cat to the vet because he was starting to get seizures and they decided to put him down against my will. Although I believe a veterinarian's judgment is better than mine but he really didn't seem depressed to me. I had known my cat for 14 years and so I believe I could make a better judgment than the vet when it comes to his feelings. But of course I could be wrong.
They gave him the shot and it failed the first time and so he woke up again. The worst part was that he was all cat-like again, being curious of who the vet was, wanting to be scratched, etc. The second time the vet gave him a shot his pupils expanded completely and he started foaming from his mouth. I don't know how he felt but it could have been extremely painful or extremely euphoric.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about dogs with emotional or psychological problems, but for my childhood dog it was really physical problems and it was obvious he had "given up" I guess is the best way to put it. He couldn't do anything he enjoyed anymore. (golden retriever not being able/trying to go for a walk, play or come up to you for affection is a pretty clear sign)
Later my mom told me the vet said he was becoming demented and didn't recognise anyone anymore or had moments where he was visibly confused as to where he was or what he was doing like barking at cabinets that had been there for years or peeing indoors.
The best way I had it said to me is that at a certain point in a pets life you're keeping him alive because it makes you feel good and not thinking about the pets well-being. When you get the pet you're expected to make choices like those for him. My dad chose to put him to sleep instead of having him suffer another 3-4 months or however long.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;51455591]Stupid question but can dogs feel grief at the death of another dog?[/QUOTE]
It's been answered a dozen times
but here's my two cents.
I had two cocker spaniels from the same litter. They were brothers. They grew up together, ran together, played together. Ozzy, and Andy. Ozzy was a bit of a bully, and ate Andies food, and got bigger than him over the years, but Andy didn't mind, he didn't enjoy food that much anyways. Anyways, Andy started to get sick a couple years back. During that time, Ozzy would give up his dish to Andy, and this was a dog who would usually run through the house to get an extra scrap of food. He was just walking away from his dish, sitting down, and watching Andy eat. He did that for a few months. Then Andy passed. When Andy passed, Ozzy was grief stricken. We took Andy to the vet, and left Ozzy at home. When we came home without Andy, Ozzy knew something was wrong, and howled, and cried, and ran around the house searching for him and his things. We found him buried in Andy's toys, his bed, and his blanket.
About a year after Andy died, my Dad died. Ozzy and my dad were best friends. They spent so much time together. After Dad passed, Ozzy couldn't let my mom go out of her sight. He still can't. He gets anxious if she leaves him for 20 minutes, and starts howling the saddest of howls.
My puppy has woken me up during the night before finals and taken hours away from studying, but I still would never, ever, abandon or put a dog down. If you purchase an animal, rescue one, etc, you should always do your best to accommodate.
It's the least we can do.
I could never abandon my dog for any reason. I wouldn't be able to live with myself knowing I just left him when I know he trusts me with his life.
[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51456118]Yes, yes it is.[/QUOTE]
It may be to you, but to most people it isn't.
I'm not defending what these people did, but to compare abandoning a dog to being the same as abandoning a child in the woods is absurd
[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;51460484]It may be to you, but to most people it isn't.
I'm not defending what these people did, but to compare abandoning a dog to being the same as abandoning a child in the woods is absurd[/QUOTE]
To most people it is though?
Only a complete psychopath labels dogs as just toys.
[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51460489]To most people it is though?
Only a complete psychopath brand dogs as just toys.[/QUOTE]
The fuck are you talking about, you think because I don't put dogs on the same level as living breathing human children I think they're toys and I'm a psychopath? go away dude.
[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;51460495]The fuck are you talking about, you think because I don't put dogs on the same level as living breathing human children I think they're toys and I'm a psychopath? go away dude.[/QUOTE]
Seeing as you are getting this agitated, seems to me like you are one.
First it was "most people don't have high regards for dogs" now it's apparently "I don't have a high regard for dogs", so which one is it? Animal lover my ass.
[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51460500]Seeing as you are getting this agitated, seems to me like you are one.
First it was "to most people" now it's apparently "I don't have a high regard for dogs", so which one is it?[/QUOTE]
You are ridiculous
if you honestly think a mother losing her child is the same as a dog owner losing his or her dog is the same, then I don't even know what to say to you
Apparently I'm a psychopath and hate animals because I think that though, so I'm not even sure if it's worth replying to you
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