[QUOTE=Jsm;45486083]Its the echo chamber problem, one or two reputable media outlets post it and the rest will echo it because surely Reuters fact check riiiight.[/QUOTE]
Tbh Reuters are normally very good. In that situation they were citing the UN.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45485724]The combined power of NATO (heavy emphasis on turkey since muslim soldiers won't be seen as invaders so much), Russia, Iran and Iraq could stop these guys in their tracks. What is stopping us from working together?
Also is this confirmed? I honestly have trouble imagining anybody being so evil.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget to make a radical Serb the military leader for +1000000% efficiency
[QUOTE=LVL FACTORY;45486656]Don't forget to make a radical Serb the military leader for +1000000% efficiency[/QUOTE]
Sorry but I don't quite understand it's this sarcasm implying it would end up a massacre? I'm not good at spotting stuff like that.
the US should create our own terrorist cell composed of everyone that wants revenge on ISIS people with no family left so thus nothing left to lose lol
then eventually we can make a movie out of it
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45485724]
Also is this confirmed? I honestly have trouble imagining anybody being so evil.[/QUOTE]
The thing is though that these people are absolutely convinced they're doing good.
Rate me dumb but, how do you circumsice a women?
[QUOTE=Riller;45485718]Yeah. Every time you're like "Yep, these are the worst", they do something new. And when the Russian separatists steal the title of 'the worst' by killing three hundred aids-researching kids, ISIS pulls this crap a week later. Stubborn bunch; not the ones to be outdone, let's give them that.[/QUOTE]
we should call this "The Brown War"
It will be known to history as battle of "Who can be the shittiest group of people to have ever existed.
[QUOTE=Super Muffin;45486468]Adding information to prove this is fake.[/QUOTE]
ISIS is still terrible.
Whatever I may think of the 2003 invasion, if I were ordered, right now, to go into Iraq and kick these bastards' teeth in, I'd gladly do it.
That's not my job though. The US shouldn't have to pull their asses out of the fire anymore. That's a job for one of the local nation-states. Hopefully one or two of them will pull their heads out of their self-interested asses long enough to give Iraq a helping hand.
time to deploy the drones
[QUOTE=DEMONSKUL;45486881]Rate me dumb but, how do you circumsice a women?[/QUOTE]
[quote]Female genital mutilation (FGM), also known as female genital cutting and female circumcision, is defined by the World Health Organization (WHO) as "all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons." The practice involves one or more of several procedures, which vary according to the ethnic group. They include removal of all or part of the clitoris and clitoral hood; all or part of the clitoris and inner labia; and in its most severe form (infibulation) all or part of the inner and outer labia and the closure of the vagina. In this last procedure, which the WHO calls Type III FGM, a small hole is left for the passage of urine and menstrual blood, and the vagina is opened up for intercourse and childbirth. The health effects depend on the procedure but can include recurrent infections, chronic pain, cysts, an inability to get pregnant, complications during childbirth and fatal bleeding.[/quote]
WHO definition
Are they worse than the Nazis yet?
Also the word "Nazi" has been removed from my phones dictionary for some reason. "Nazis" autocorrects to "Maxis" :v:
[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;45486034]circumcision is fucking retarded[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision[/url]
[quote]What are the benefits of circumcision?
There is some evidence that circumcision has health benefits, including:
A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
A reduced risk of sexually transmitted diseases in men.
Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).
Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean.
Note: Some studies show that good hygiene can help prevent certain problems with the penis, including infections and swelling, even if the penis is not circumcised. In addition, using a condom during sex will help prevent STDs and other infections.[/quote]
[QUOTE=-Sleepy-*;45487170][url]http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision[/url][/QUOTE]
Female circumcision has no such benefits, however. Also, you should still be free to choose if you want to be circumcised or not.
I'm sick and tired of this disgusting religion and the apologists who defend it.
[QUOTE=antimonycat;45487821]I'm sick and tired of this disgusting religion and the apologists who defend it.[/QUOTE]
Is it the religion that causes the conflicts, or are there underlying systemic issues that nobody wants to address?
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;45487122]WHO definition
*cringe*[/QUOTE]
Youch
Ok now I get it...wtf?
Its always religious nutjobs who want to ruin peoples genitialia and stop them enjoying them.
[QUOTE=sp00ks;45485695]It's almost impressive just how awful these people are.[/QUOTE]
It's like they want us to descent to their levels of barbarity while handling out a punishment, when and if we catch them.
Like, getting sent to a place where you're neither dead nor alive, and just suffer pain for eternity, somehow.
That's how fucked up they sound to me.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;45485719]At this point, they're just looking at ways to inflict pain and torture unto people rather then follow their "beliefs" or whatever.
I'm happy I had the opportunity to be born nowhere near the middle east.[/QUOTE]
Curiously, just today we talked just about this, how these places are always at war.
I'm starting to feel the same way, and that's bad. We live fucked up lives in fear of not making it to the next day free of bills to pay and diseases like cancer and those Average Joe worries, but then, in the other side of the world, we got shit like this. It just boggles my mind how stuff like this can happen at this day and age.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45486725]Sorry but I don't quite understand it's this sarcasm implying it would end up a massacre? I'm not good at spotting stuff like that.[/QUOTE]
i think it's a remove kebab joke
Well if there's ever a group that deserves mass annihilation, it'd certainly be everyone in ISIS.
How long before someone steps in?
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45486033]Another thing is trust in moderate muslims. It has been clear from the beginning that Muslim states don't like non-muslim interventions and leaders. The west needs to get a Muslim country to oversee the process, ideally a moderate one which won't go apeshit with religious police, executions and sharia law.[/QUOTE]
The main problem are the radicals. And they never agree with moderate muslims overseeing anything. Also their laws are very strict so "going apeshit with religious police" doesn't necessarily mean the same thing for us as it does for them.
By the way, I'd say Islam these days is going through roughly the same stage as Christianity was going through during dark ages. These people might become more tolerating as their customs, laws and rituals become less severe with time. But these thing usually take literally ages to happen.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45486033]You give them what we have, that is good drains, good farms, tvs, communication, internet, good roads, vehicles, training and equipment to repair that stuff, healthcare, medical helicopters (necessary since the country is so large and sparsely populated) and facilities to maintain and produce the drugs they need I honestly think it would make a vast improvement. They would feel respected and wouldn't feel jealous, they would feel like equals and have less need to resort to islamofacism and tribal feudalism. Respect and trust are vital and neither exist currently.[/QUOTE]
This actually might provoke a "naughty kid" response as they would feel not respected but feared. Why work on internal issues, evolve into more civilized society, if you can just threaten to "export" a few hundred terrorists into the rest of the world or to kill a couple of thousand inoccents to get what you want? There is no simple solution to this problem.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45485724]The combined power of NATO (heavy emphasis on turkey since muslim soldiers won't be seen as invaders so much), Russia, Iran and Iraq could stop these guys in their tracks. What is stopping us from working together?
Also is this confirmed? I honestly have trouble imagining anybody being so evil.[/QUOTE]
the fact that they haven't invaded anybody with real influence yet. if they had hit iran or saudi arabia then we'd be full on desert storm 3
[QUOTE=plre;45488253]The main problem are the radicals. And they never agree with moderate muslims overseeing anything. Also their laws are very strict so "going apeshit with religious police" doesn't necessarily mean the same thing for us as it does for them.
By the way, I'd say Islam these days is going through roughly the same stage as Christianity was going through during dark ages. These people might become more tolerating as their customs, laws and rituals become less severe with time. But these thing usually take literally ages to happen.
This actually might provoke a "naughty kid" response as they would feel not respected but feared. Why work on internal issues, evolve into more civilized society, if you can just threaten to "export" a few hundred terrorists into the rest of the world or to kill a couple of thousand inoccents to get what you want? There is no simple solution to this problem.[/QUOTE]
You suggest muslims are stuck in the dark ages. I disagree. I compare this closer to imperialism and facism in the early 1900s
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45488358]You suggest muslims are stuck in the dark ages. I disagree. I compare this closer to imperialism and facism in the early 1900s[/QUOTE]
I'm not suggesting they're stuck there. It's just that things might not change much in one human lifetime.
1900s' facism and imperialism didn't have religion for a backend. In my opinion there is a difference between a political doctrine based on the idea of an exceptional race, and a tradition of true believers' superiority.
[QUOTE=plre;45488674]I'm not suggesting they're stuck there. It's just that things might not change much in one human lifetime.
1900s' facism and imperialism didn't have religion for a backend. In my opinion there is a difference between a political doctrine based on the idea of an exceptional race, and a tradition of true believers' superiority.[/QUOTE]
I'm glad we can talk about this. Please consider the following:
Many, myself included, consider a difference between islam and islamism.
Islam is a relgion, islamism is a political movement using religion as a driving factor, instead of say nationalism (we saw many political movements driven by nationalism in the early 1900s).
Islam I have no issue with, I know a few muslims and have great respect for them to hold onto their beliefs despite getting a lot of shit from for being muslim.
Islamism I have an issue with since it is authoritarian, traditionalist and uncompromising.
The difference between Sunni and Shia is Shia's pick the most pious leaders, whereas Sunni pick the best political and cultural leaders. A significant sub sect of the Sunnis are the Wahhabi muslims, this is where islam is no longer a religion but a lifestyle, culture and political tool.
Wahhabi and Salafist muslims aim to push Sharia law on others, through violence if necessary, we have seen this in Saudi Arabia and Sudan where people are killed for apostasy and stoned to death for not following sharia law. We see it in the Taliban who originally used it to rule Afghanistan but now use it to recruit. We see it in Chechnya where Muslims from all over the world flocked there to push sharia law on neighboring regions. We see it now in Iraq and Syria, Christians fleeing for their lives and the power of religion being mobilized as a tool of war.
Facism as we know it has been associated with nationalism, I argue that what we are seeing now is facism driven by something else. Islamism tries to suppress nationalism, since that would be a competitor for it, I think this is important as it essentially replaces the nationalistic tendancy. That bond which connects people is no longer colour of skin, place of birth or country of allegiance but sharing a common religion and, through islamism, a common goal.
In Soviet Afghanistan, Chechnya, Iraq, Afghanistan now, Sudan we have seen islamists from across the globe joining the fight, foregoing nationalism for a sense of joint purpose and a common goal in the form of islamism/religion.
Fascism and what we are seeing in islamism are very similar.
Secret/party police -> religious police
following strict laws -> sharia law
reduced personal freedoms
Strong sense of xenophobia
strong desire to conquer/subjugate others.
Authoritarian.
Uncompromising
I think our main disagreement lies in this statement
[quote]political doctrine based on the idea of an exceptional race,[/quote]
I do not believe fascism requires this, nationalism and racism can be used to drive it but I believe so can other things. I mentioned before with the BUF, that is the British union of fascists operating in the 30s, they wanted the UK to get pally with the nazis, mainly because it offering a way to oppose communism.
ISIS wants to set up its own authoritarian state and while they claim to be muslim, they things they are doing are not religiously motivated but political. Killing innocent people isn't part of islam.
Apologies if I repeat myself, I took a break half way through writing and went through it rearranging stuff afterwards.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45489412]
I do not believe fascism requires this, nationalism and racism can be used to drive it but I believe so can other things.[/QUOTE]
Yes, you're totally right. This was in context of imperialism and facism, where one "greater" nation feeds on "lesser" ones.
I'd like to correct myself, I actually meant not dark ages, but inquisition. It is not unseen for a political force to use religion for it's own needs. I think, at some point any religion has been used to back up politics. The very first thing that comes to mind is Russia/Ukraine ancestor, Kievan Rus' accepted christianity as a state religion in 10th century, and after that all the rulers, up until the revolution, were considered given their power by God.
These days you don't see christians rallying for another crusade or generally killing in the name of their God. Something happened and then church's influence has become either weaker or more subtle (which is more likely).
The biggest thing about religion-driven facism is that religious texts are always open to interpretation. You've already mentioned it: that makes radicals give others a bad name. In case of Islam it's some kind of vicious circle: by commiting violence islamists make all muslims look bad; by not trusting muslims, we alienate them, making it easier for islamists to recruit in their ranks.
[QUOTE=plre;45490088]Yes, you're totally right. This was in context of imperialism and facism, where one "greater" nation feeds on "lesser" ones.
I'd like to correct myself, I actually meant not dark ages, but inquisition. It is not unseen for a political force to use religion for it's own needs. I think, at some point any religion has been used to back up politics. The very first thing that comes to mind is Russia/Ukraine ancestor, Kievan Rus' accepted christianity as a state religion in 10th century, and after that all the rulers, up until the revolution, were considered given their power by God.
These days you don't see christians rallying for another crusade or generally killing in the name of their God. Something happened and then church's influence has become either weaker or more subtle (which is more likely).
The biggest thing about religion-driven facism is that religious texts are always open to interpretation. You've already mentioned it: that makes radicals give others a bad name. In case of Islam it's some kind of vicious circle: by commiting violence islamists make all muslims look bad; by not trusting muslims, we alienate them, making it easier for islamists to recruit in their ranks.[/QUOTE]
I do wonder why/how Christianity calmed down, I suspect we replaced it with something else possibility nationalism.
That divine right thing you mention about Ukrainians/Russians leaders having power from god was a theme heavily in Catholicism as well, it seems to just be a way of making it easier to accept the leader as the leader. If a guy comes along and says "i am chosen by god" people might not question him for fear of retribution.
I think me mentioning imperialism and fascism at the same time might have detracted from my argument. I should probably have left out imperialism and just focused on fascism.
And while religious texts are open for interpretation, by having a few religious leaders in the organisation those religious leaders can guide how people interpret things, this could be used to stop people deviating from the desired interpretation by instead of them making up their own minds about passages they are told what it means and either don't question that or their being told might influence how they interpret it the next time.
Yes completely, alienation and lack of trust is a terribly vicious circle with muslims and lots of other minorities. As an example in afghanistan lack of trust meant we didn't give the army helicopters for a long time so ambulances had to go by road, dangerous and slow, the troops resented this and it cannot have helped the hand over, there was also much complaints about the weapons and quality of weapons supplied to the army.
It has been a pleasure talking to you.
[URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28466434[/URL]
apparently this story is suspected as fake propaganda
[IMG]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76432000/gif/_76432219_female_mutilation_20142207_464.gif[/IMG]
Didn't expect Egypt of all places to be a major place for this.
Yeah I was pretty shocked at that as well.
tbh anything above 0% is pretty damn awful
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