[QUOTE=MrFlashcat;43054775]So what if other animals manage to get to the mice before that specific snake species does? You're not telling me all of the 2000 mice are going to be eaten by a brown tree snake.[/QUOTE]
The article states that the snakes are especially sensitive to the anesthetic, any other animals wouldn't be affected as badly:
[quote]For some reason, the snakes are almost uniquely sensitive to acetaminophen, the active ingredient in the ubiquitous over-the-counter painkiller. If you can get a tree snake to eat just 80 milligrams, you can kill it. That's only about one-sixth of a standard pill — pigs, dogs and other similarly sized animals would have to eat about 500 of them to get into any trouble.[/quote]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;43052476]the problem is they are spending $2 for a $1 problem. hopefully this is a long term solution but it seems like it's not really economically viable.[/QUOTE]
Prove it, please.
Can't believe how long this has been going on for, I remember posting something similar to this in [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1182652"]May. Last year.[/URL]
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;43052405]Okay but seriously how the fuck did this cost eight million dollars?[/QUOTE]
Go around and ask who's willing to put 2000 tiny parachutes onto dead rats packed with poison.
Would be better to have a whacking day instead?
[img]http://meblogwritegood.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/screen-shot-2011-09-27-at-3-40-45-pm.png[/img]
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;43056417]Prove it, please.[/QUOTE]
"part of an $8 million U.S. program approved in February to eradicate the snakes"
"costing as much as $4 million in annual repair costs and lost productivity, the Interior Department estimated in 2005."
[QUOTE=Crabpeople;43052034]8 million dollars went into a plan where a couple thousand mice were thrown off a plane in parachutes. Who the fuck thinks of shit like this.[/QUOTE]
The mice are distributed by helicopter, thanks for playing
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43056153]Parachutes are there to evenly distribute the mice as well as making sure they don't become red splotches of gore.[/QUOTE]
Also to catch them in the tree, because the snake they're trying to kill off is an imported tree snake
[QUOTE=yawmwen;43057612]"part of an $8 million U.S. program approved in February to eradicate the snakes"
"costing as much as $4 million in annual repair costs and lost productivity, the Interior Department estimated in 2005."[/QUOTE]
It'd be nice if I could find that report, but judging from the phrasing, it doesn't take into account the numerous tree-dwelling species that have been killed off and are in danger because of the snakes (and the rest of the food chain, dead birds and bats can't eat spiders, etc). And there's also the risks of the snakes finding their way to hawaii or other islands, where native snake species are rarer.
[QUOTE=commander204;43056167]Why would they? This whole thrill of the hunt stuff doesn't exist. Food is food, whether it's caught or not. Besides, catching prey is pretty dangerous and time consuming as well as tiring, why would they want to do that?[/QUOTE]
Snakes detect things as prey by heat, smell, and movement. Dead mice lack two of those things. Birds will eat the dead and sedated mice, though. And then you'll have drugged birds as easier prey for the snakes.
The only thing I'm wondering is if the $8m is for the entire plan to kill off the snakes. I don't know how many snakes are killed by a single bait, but there's a couple million snakes last time I heard. If it's $8m for the entire project then that's awesome- $1.5m for R&D, the rest for implementation. But if the $6.5m only covers 2000 baits, then guam is fucked.
[editline]3rd December 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Grimhound;43058321]Snakes detect things as prey by heat, smell, and movement. Dead mice lack two of those things. Birds will eat the dead and sedated mice, though. And then you'll have drugged birds as easier prey for the snakes.[/QUOTE]
Nope, the target snake population happily eats dead prey
Invasive species can cause serious problems to native populations, so eight million is well worth it in the long run. I love snakes but sometimes you have to kill animals for the greater good of the ecosystem.
Howcome people don't think this makes sense? Snakes love eating shit like rats and an airplane can deliver them across a large area the cheapest.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;43057612]"part of an $8 million U.S. program approved in February to eradicate the snakes"
"costing as much as $4 million in annual repair costs and lost productivity, the Interior Department estimated in 2005."[/QUOTE]
That doesn't satisfy my question. When given the choice to either spend $40 over ten days or $8 over one day, I would almost certainly opt for the latter. What I'm asking is why this isn't economically viable, and would like for you to show me the exact budgeting they used and the reasons they had for that budgeting to confirm that it was a waste.
[QUOTE=Grimhound;43058321]Snakes detect things as prey by heat, smell, and movement. Dead mice lack two of those things. Birds will eat the dead and sedated mice, though. And then you'll have drugged birds as easier prey for the snakes.[/QUOTE]
I love the way that you and other posters in the thread don't believe they did any sort of research into this before chucking a load of dead mice out of a plane
like comeon, I'm sure they checked to see if they ate dead mice before doing a field test with 2000 of them
[QUOTE=valkery;43052470]Yeah. I think that's reasonable. Totally. It's not as if our government is incompetent with money. I'm sure they made the right calls.[/QUOTE]
i'm sure you can do better
[QUOTE=JDER14;43051976]Why not just ship them normally and release them at certain points?[/QUOTE]
cheaper to drop them from the air. Greater distribution area.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;43062211]I love the way that you and other posters in the thread don't believe they did any sort of research into this before chucking a load of dead mice out of a plane
like comeon, I'm sure they checked to see if they ate dead mice before doing a field test with 2000 of them[/QUOTE]
This is the United States government we're talking about.
[QUOTE=LMFAO;43062704]i'm sure you can do better[/QUOTE]
Well, yeah! Instead of paying for the parachutes to be made, have a middle school class at a few different schools make them as part of some physics experiment. Instead of having people paid solely to inject them, have some med students practice injections on them. Then your costs have been cut by at least 1-2 million, and people have gotten education out of it. Better yet, have the mice shipped into Guam on a regular freighter, and pay some locals to do the drops with their own planes. Another 2 million right there.
[QUOTE=valkery;43062907]Well, yeah! Instead of paying for the parachutes to be made, have a middle school class at a few different schools make them as part of some physics experiment. Instead of having people paid solely to inject them, have some med students practice injections on them. Then your costs have been cut by at least 1-2 million, and people have gotten education out of it. Better yet, have the mice shipped into Guam on a regular freighter, and pay some locals to do the drops with their own planes. Another 2 million right there.[/QUOTE]
Do you even know where that $8m is going?
[editline]3rd December 2013[/editline]
Also, guys, they're using helicopters, not troop transport planes
[QUOTE=Greenen72;43062946]Do you even know where that $8m is going?
[editline]3rd December 2013[/editline]
Also, guys, they're using helicopters, not troop transport planes[/QUOTE]
I'm going to assume that it's going into R&D, the chopper costs, fuel for the chopper, the pilot's wage, the wage for the drop crew, transport for the chopper, mice, parachutes, and tranquilizer. If it's going into much of anything else, those costs are extraneous.
Assumptions do nothing except inevitably make you wrong.
I'm unable to find any first-party source on this that mentions costs, but third-party sources say that the program had $1.5m towards research, and the whole of the $8m is to implement this nationally, so it's not that unreasonable.
But now that I think about it, that doesn't really have anything to do with your suggestions. I honestly don't see how you think getting some med students to spend their days filling mice with tylenol is either giving them meaningful experience or feasible. Nor do I see how putting locals in charge of distributing the mice with their own equipment would do anything except end up with people not doing it (unless, of course, you pay them what it would cost to do it yourself). Also, what kind of class would it be to have kids get in a production line and start putting together parachutes? What about the distribution of those parachutes to the place where they're attached to the mice? What kind of learning experience would this give such that a teacher would do this?
The one thing I can see is a biology teacher telling the class "Ok, today, we're helping with the cause of saving the native bird species," and then everyone has fun because there's no homework, and it might even involve a field trip.
The only valid thing that I can draw from your suggestions is asking for volunteer labor, but that's not something you can budget for
[QUOTE=LMFAO;43062704]i'm sure you can do better[/QUOTE]
If he had the resources available to him that the government did, how do you know he couldn't?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;43057612]"part of an $8 million U.S. program approved in February to eradicate the snakes"
"costing as much as $4 million in annual repair costs and lost productivity, the Interior Department estimated in 2005."[/QUOTE]
it says 4mil annually, meaning that for every year this has been going on 4-million dollars had to be spent, whereas this is a 1-time 8-million dollar solution. of course, that 4-million doesn't count environmental damage done by the snakes.
[QUOTE=valkery;43062907]Well, yeah! Instead of paying for the parachutes to be made, have a middle school class at a few different schools make them as part of some physics experiment. Instead of having people paid solely to inject them, have some med students practice injections on them. Then your costs have been cut by at least 1-2 million, and people have gotten education out of it. Better yet, have the mice shipped into Guam on a regular freighter, and pay some locals to do the drops with their own planes. Another 2 million right there.[/QUOTE]
So use students as unpaid laborers?
pfft, stupid government, you're trying to kill snakes, why are you pumping the mice full of painkillers, pump them full of snakekillers
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;43065188]pfft, stupid government, you're trying to kill snakes, why are you pumping the mice full of painkillers, pump them full of snakekillers[/QUOTE]
Because the snakes are a pain.
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