• Marice Le Pen hopes to be elected president of France after success of Brexit and Trump
    73 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51364122]so what exactly is the problem people have with globalism? i'd rather see the planet united as one rather than retreating into their shitty little caves[/QUOTE] Globalism is fine - but you have to consider how many ways there are to go about accomplishing it. Most of them are not what we want, and it will be hard to go back. Ecomically, globalism can allow for some scary labor economics. Socially, our cultural identities can be at risk. Who leads? Who provides oversight?
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51364122]so what exactly is the problem people have with globalism? i'd rather see the planet united as one rather than retreating into their shitty little caves[/QUOTE] Same reason a monopoly is bad.
[QUOTE=Jarokwa;51364298]im just gonna assume europe isnt as stupid as 50% of the usa[/QUOTE] Really depends on the country Germany for example I think is pretty safe from far right populism atm, especially when looking at opinion polls. Not sure about the demographics of france though
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51364305]Really depends on the country Germany for example I think is pretty safe from far right populism atm, especially when looking at opinion polls. Not sure about the demographics of france though[/QUOTE] I think all bets are off, Le Pen's father already got to the finals in 2002 so it's likely that will happen again.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51364325]I think all bets are off, Le Pen's father already got to the finals in 2002 so it's likely that will happen again.[/QUOTE] In addition, Marine le Pen is a far more talented and effective politician in a much more accommodating atmosphere than Marie le Pen was in.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51364070]It isn't 'fascism' and the fact that people are only able to compare these events historically to either the Nazis or Harry Potter shows our cultural decline The entire point of Marine le Pen is that she has taken her party away from an actually much more fascistic past when FN was under Marie le Pen and towards a more generalised right-wing populism which blends anti-immigration sentiments and white identity politics with left-wing economic policy. This is scary, but it isn't 'fascism'.[/QUOTE] Isnt fascism a mutant synthesis of left and right? [QUOTE]fascism is taking the world by storm [/QUOTE] It is a reactionary idea. It only pops up when there is something needing or perceived needing to be reacted to.
[QUOTE=Guriosity;51364341]Isnt fascism a mutant synthesis of left and right? [/QUOTE] Not really there's forms of fascism like third positionism that claim to be but most political scientists still situate them on the far right
[QUOTE=Guriosity;51364341]Isnt fascism a mutant synthesis of left and right? It is a reactionary idea. It only pops up when there is something needing or perceived needing to be reacted to.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/[/url] There is major historical debate about what 'fascism' actually is, and here is a good way to examine it if you want to use the word 'fascist' in a broad sense: [QUOTE]So we come to my second point. There was only one Nazism. We cannot label Franco’s hyper-Catholic Falangism as Nazism, since Nazism is fundamentally pagan, polytheistic, and anti-Christian. But the fascist game can be played in many forms, and the name of the game does not change. The notion of fascism is not unlike Wittgenstein’s notion of a game. A game can be either competitive or not, it can require some special skill or none, it can or cannot involve money. Games are different activities that display only some “family resemblance,” as Wittgenstein put it. Consider the following sequence: 1 2 3 4 abc bcd cde def Suppose there is a series of political groups in which group one is characterized by the features abc, group two by the features bcd, and so on. Group two is similar to group one since they have two features in common; for the same reasons three is similar to two and four is similar to three. Notice that three is also similar to one (they have in common the feature c). The most curious case is presented by four, obviously similar to three and two, but with no feature in common with one. However, owing to the uninterrupted series of decreasing similarities between one and four, there remains, by a sort of illusory transitivity, a family resemblance between four and one. Fascism became an all-purpose term because one can eliminate from a fascist regime one or more features, and it will still be recognizable as fascist. Take away imperialism from fascism and you still have Franco and Salazar. Take away colonialism and you still have the Balkan fascism of the Ustashes. Add to the Italian fascism a radical anti-capitalism (which never much fascinated Mussolini) and you have Ezra Pound. Add a cult of Celtic mythology and the Grail mysticism (completely alien to official fascism) and you have one of the most respected fascist gurus, Julius Evola.[/QUOTE] He then defines some of the features that he sees as being present in 'Ur-Fascism' (pure fascism) which is very interesting if you want to read the article. I personally think that if you define it so broadly that it encompasses nearly all right-wing populism, it becomes far less useful as an ideological definition, though I can see the strengths of this argument. I think that ultimately, however subversive Trump is, or le Pen is, they in some way respect the liberal-democratic order (and also lack certain elements of what I would call 'fascism', which Eco would see as acceptable, but I do not: I don't think you can have fascism without imperialism in particular, which is why I don't call Franco or Salazar fascist) which means they are not truly fascist. They offer modifications to, and not an overthrow of it. They don't offer a true ideological challenge to liberal democracy.
hahaha no
[QUOTE=Turnips5;51364032]for me personally this is the absolute most disturbing trend [img]https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/11/10/world/10RUSSIA-3/10RUSSIA-3-master768.jpg[/img] I mean seriously, this is just in a pub in moscow, but if you're no fan of "globalism" have a good long think about this[/QUOTE] I think it's a nice art piece to be honest, very well done. The whole open collar for the shirts probably has some deep symbolism to it too.
I would say she won't, but I've been wrong twice already.
I don't quite hate her as much as I hate her father (that old sack of shit can rot in hell), but she's still one of the worst politicians out there. Manipulative, drama-whoring and childish hateful cunt who's not even hiding the fact she's building a family empire over politics (several of her relatives are also in political positions of varying importance thanks to her influence). She constantly acts as the herald of the "true French", calling any dismissal of her dumb rhetoric as undemocratic and oppressive, while simultaneously acting like an arrogant twat whenever she gains the smallest bit of political ground. She had so much trouble actually keeping up the image of her party as not racist and not extreme far-right that she had to exile her own father from the party after he spread his historical revisionism all over the place for the hundredth time [I]and[/I] she had to fucking ban leather jackets and bald heads from her political rallies as neonazies would show up to support her in large amounts (not to mention that one of her party's yearly marches was grounds for the murder of a guy of African descent, who was lynched by FN supporters and tossed into the river where he drowned). Whenever people are talking about how Trump is enabling the KKK and bigots, they should fucking see France. The FN is virtually the [I]only[/I] party in France that harbors their ideas without as much as a hint of subtlety, and they've wanted to go full Jim Crow ever since their founding.
People are tired of peace and prosperity or what?
[QUOTE=yff;51364095]You're free to ask people around and see what bothers them more.[/QUOTE] What bothers people and what the actual issues are can be two different things. Immigration is an issue but it isn't the only issue - yet look at the British tabloids trying to stir people up whilst paying no mind to how our Conservative government are dismantling the NHS and social welfare programs whilst saying they're failing.
Normally I'd write her off, but I wrote off Trump and look what we have. I'm probably part of the problem.
[QUOTE=Talishmar;51365073]People are tired of peace and prosperity or what?[/QUOTE] Not sure mass immigration has brought peace or prosperity.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51366837]Not sure mass immigration has brought peace or prosperity.[/QUOTE] It's a hugely overblown problem.
[QUOTE=Turnips5;51364032]for me personally this is the absolute most disturbing trend [img]https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/11/10/world/10RUSSIA-3/10RUSSIA-3-master768.jpg[/img] I mean seriously, this is just in a pub in moscow, but if you're no fan of "globalism" have a good long think about this[/QUOTE] Those are some sexy AF portraits. If I was interested in that stuff, I would definitely commission that artist.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51366837]Not sure mass immigration has brought peace or prosperity.[/QUOTE] I think you should remind yourself of what country you are in before you start talking about the evils of immigration.
We need to build a Line! Germany isn't sending their best!
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;51366976]We need to build a Line! Germany isn't sending their best![/QUOTE] Just have to remember to build it along Belgium as well this time.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;51366976]We need to build a Line! Germany isn't sending their best![/QUOTE] They’re bringing tanks. They’re bringing Stukas. They’re panzergrenadiers. And some, I assume, are good people.
[QUOTE=Samiam22;51366966]I think you should remind yourself of what country you are in before you start talking about the evils of immigration.[/QUOTE] Considering we have 95,000+ immigrating to our country each year, on top of the idea that we are bringing in a lot to just create demand thus create growth, its not exactly the best even for us.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51368350]Haha yeah, economic growth, death of a nation[/QUOTE] When the nation is cutting costs and infrastructure is reaching capacity because of rapid expansion, not all is good.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51367560]Considering we have 95,000+ immigrating to our country each year, on top of the idea that we are bringing in a lot to just create demand thus create growth, its not exactly the best even for us.[/QUOTE] You know the natives of NZ (if you can even call them that as they actually immigrated here fairly recently in the grand scale of things) are only 15% of the population, right? Immigrants here have brought, and are bringing in, a lot of work force and money. Auckland especially is growing at a pretty astonishing rate.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51367560]Considering we have 95,000+ immigrating to our country each year, on top of the idea that we are bringing in a lot to just create demand thus create growth, its not exactly the best even for us.[/QUOTE] A whole 95000 people a year is a drop in the ocean considering the size of NZ's population FYI even if the population growth rate stays static this amounts to 9.5 million people total in 100 years assuming all of these individuals stay permanently Many immigrants are just as likely to be transients coming to study there or work for a set period of time as well I'd argue that immigration is what's probably keeping things dynamic in a sense as far as NZ is concerned - they bring in money and capital as well as knowledge to enrich the local culture
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51368382]When the nation is cutting costs and infrastructure is reaching capacity because of rapid expansion, not all is good.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/gdp-per-capita-ppp"]Oh no[/URL], how ever will your economy cope? A GDP per capita 196% higher than the world average must be a real struggle. I decided to look up the [URL="https://www.immigration.govt.nz/documents/statistics/rqbarrivalsstatpak.pdf"]New Zealand Immigration Department's Refugee Quota Arrivals[/URL], over the last ten years from 2007-2016. Oh my god. [B]Since 2006[/B], until September of 2016, you've let in a shocking 726 Afghan refugees, 152 Palestinian refugees, 335 Syrian refugees... [B]7,195 refugees total[/B]! How the fuck will your infrastructure survive if you keep taking 7,000 refugees every ten years? The New Zealand census showed a population of 4,027,947 in 2006. The estimated population two years ago was about 4.5 million. 7,000 of 500,000 means that less than 1.5% of your population growth is due to refuges - and [I]less than a quarter[/I] of those refugees even came from Syria or Palestine. Your economy is going to be in shambles. Good luck, New Zealand, you guys need a wall to stop the flood of like 26 Palestinians a year.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;51368631][URL="http://www.tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/gdp-per-capita-ppp"]Oh no[/URL], how ever will your economy cope? A GDP per capita 196% higher than the world average must be a real struggle. I decided to look up the [URL="https://www.immigration.govt.nz/documents/statistics/rqbarrivalsstatpak.pdf"]New Zealand Immigration Department's Refugee Quota Arrivals[/URL], over the last ten years from 2007-2016. Oh my god. [B]Since 2006[/B], until September of 2016, you've let in a shocking 726 Afghan refugees, 152 Palestinian refugees, 335 Syrian refugees... [B]7,195 refugees total[/B]! How the fuck will your infrastructure survive if you keep taking 7,000 refugees every ten years? The New Zealand census showed a population of 4,027,947 in 2006. The estimated population two years ago was about 4.5 million. 7,000 of 500,000 means that less than 1.5% of your population growth is due to refuges - and [I]less than a quarter[/I] of those refugees even came from Syria or Palestine. Your economy is going to be in shambles. Good luck, New Zealand, you guys need a wall to stop the flood of like 26 Palestinians a year.[/QUOTE] You do know I'm talking about legal immigration, not refugees. I'm talking about New Zealand adding 95,000 people on top of our own growing population each year. I don't know about you, but I'd call that unsustainable. With the refugees, we take on the required amount by the UN.
Totally glad Trump has opened the doors for totally incompetent people to run for positions they have no business running for
95,000 is only a 2% increase on 4.5 million people though. What's the birthrate in NZ, and what is the economic growth in New Zealand. It doesn't seem that unsustainable. What do you want to do about immigration, limit it?
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