• Marice Le Pen hopes to be elected president of France after success of Brexit and Trump
    73 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51366837]Not sure mass immigration has brought peace or prosperity.[/QUOTE] you're right, we should be embracing the peace and prosperity brought by fascism
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51368727]You do know I'm talking about legal immigration, not refugees. I'm talking about New Zealand adding 95,000 people on top of our own growing population each year. I don't know about you, but I'd call that unsustainable. With the refugees, we take on the required amount by the UN.[/QUOTE] The 95,000 figure you're referring to is the total growth, not immigration only. [URL="http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71124472/New-Zealands-population-growing-at-its-fastest-rate-in-over-a-decade"]The 2014-2015 growth rate was 1.9%[/URL], split between 58,300 net migration and 28,700 natural increase. Two-thirds of your population growth last year was from immigration. Truly horrifying that you're importing talented workers from China, India, and the UK (the top three sources of migrants). I'm also unsure where you're getting that 95,000 number from, since you haven't provided any sources. You claim it's "each year," when the most recent information [I]from the NZ government[/I] I can find places that at almost 10,000 lower. The Stats NZ website is down for me right now, unfortunately, so I can't find any more info. But you're freaking out that New Zealand's infrastructure can't handle a <2% annual population growth rate. You're incorrect that NZ is adding 95,000 [I]on top of[/I] the growing population when it's actually somewhere around 87,000 [I]in total[/I]. You're so scared of the European Refugee Crisis that you're extrapolating it onto New Zealand. For no reason. Your economy is doing fine. It's actually one of the fastest-growing markets in the world right now, partly due to population growth and partly due to massive construction/housing booms that relate to that population growth.
I think the best thing to do with people who support someone like Le Pen and other such politicians (Wilders, Trump) is hear them out. Do not immediately dismiss their argument, how baseless or inane it may seem. If they say they think Moroccans and Turks need to get the fuck out, ask them why. Their frustration obviously stems from somewhere but dismissing them and laughing at them will only entrench them further, and it will become increasingly harder for you to address the problem at its core. If you want to unify, start with the people who support the 'enemy'. They aren't the ones creating these issues, they see someone who does and think they are able to actually fix things. If stern words and fear is what it takes to be persuaded, then you too can persuade them to stop bigotry. [editline]14th November 2016[/editline] I also think that the origin of the current state of affairs goes back to the fucking middle ages, with the whole christianity vs islam bullshit and the crusades. The approach may have changed, but the underlying rhethoric hasn't. It started flaring up again when the US used the Mujahideen as anti-Soviet puppets, I think, but how can I be sure?
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51368727]You do know I'm talking about legal immigration, not refugees. I'm talking about New Zealand adding 95,000 people on top of our own growing population each year. I don't know about you, but I'd call that unsustainable. With the refugees, we take on the required amount by the UN.[/QUOTE] Even if it were to grow at the same rate it currently does your country isn't going to be in any danger regarding employment and economics lmao NZ is one of THE most quickly growing economies in recent times and will adapt itself quite well to even thrice this number of immigrants a year, guaranteed.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51368919]I seriously ask myself how to convince someone that Turks arent welfare leeching rapists but I havent found the answer yet How do you approach similar ludicrous claims that feed xenophobia. To defeat xenophobia you have to defeat this groundwork, but how?[/QUOTE] I think part of helping xenophobia disappear is by listening to the people who have it. I think xenophobia is partially based by a lack of understanding or vehemently grasping to things like nationalism or culture.
[QUOTE=Recurracy;51369110]I think part of helping xenophobia disappear is by listening to the people who have it. I think xenophobia is partially based by a lack of understanding or vehemently grasping to things like nationalism or culture.[/QUOTE] I feel quite a lot of the time however that xenophobic and racist people aren't willing to listen to whatever arguments you have.
Because it's immediately disregarded as idiotic most of the time, which only makes them further entrech in that opinion. I'm not saying it's anything but idiotic, but that's the problem. Idiocity happens out of fear and a lack of understanding, which funnily enough creates more fear, which creates more lack of understanding... And so on and so forth. It's a ridiculous cycle. Removing or at least lessening their fear should be the first step towards understanding. For some it's too late for that because they have been stuck in this rhethoric for most of their life, and in their mind, it's impossible for the people they oppose to ever be viewed as an equal because they have allowed this hateful cycle to continue.
[QUOTE=Recurracy;51369110]I think part of helping xenophobia disappear is by listening to the people who have it. I think xenophobia is partially based by a lack of understanding or vehemently grasping to things like nationalism or culture.[/QUOTE] A lot of it is rooted in some fear of the unknown. There's a reason the most fiercely xenophobic places tend to be the most rural and the most homogeneous ethnically/culturally.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;51366598]Normally I'd write her off, but I wrote off Trump and look what we have. I'm probably part of the problem.[/QUOTE] Last time the FN got this close to being elected to presidency, the two leading factors were the obvious fear following 9/11 (elections were in 2002) and exceptionally low turnout for the first turn of the elections. As soon as a FN candidate got to second ballot, the opposing candidate got a whopping [I]80%[/I] of all votes in his favor, because everybody showed up to vote [I]against[/I] the FN. Considering the sheer amount of minorities that the FN has managed to piss off over the years (read: every single one of them) on top of all the straight and white electors who also dislike them, as long as they instigate fear among those minorities their chances of going through are diminished. Not nearly as slim as they were in 2002, but still thin. This chance is however still drastically increased by the fact that the two leading parties in France (the socialist party and the right-leaning UMP) are suffering from internal turmoil at the moment, and [I]both[/I] of those parties have taken decisions that directly or indirectly lead up to the series of terrorist attacks we got, something that FN is sure to ride on for the elections. Not to mention that all the North-African and Middle-Eastern dictators that were funding those election campaigns are now dead, or destitute (Sarkozy was infamously funded by Gaddafi, and invited him as VIP at the July 14 military march right after his election). [editline]14th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Recurracy;51369110]I think part of helping xenophobia disappear is by listening to the people who have it. I think xenophobia is partially based by a lack of understanding or vehemently grasping to things like nationalism or culture.[/QUOTE] The FN doesn't hide from the fact it is dutifully xenophobic and has embraced it as a political stance. "France to the French" has been their slogan for the longest time, and they perpetuate the nonsensical notion of "True French" who according to them should be worth more and be given special advantages over minorities. They have, of course, failed to deliver any form of factual reasoning as to what makes someone "True French" since our colonial history practically invalidates a lot of their logic.
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